hi all,

i have been reading a lot of the site for the last week and finally found somewhere that i believe in, so decided it was time to post my "story". It's pretty long and complex like most peoples so i will try to keep it as brief as i can without missing things out.

background:
I am 39 and wife is 35, we have been married for nrly 13yo and together 18yrs, we have a 11yo son whom we both cherish. Around 3yrs ago i got caught having an affair wish all ended in a pretty unpleasant way with cops involved as well. My wife fought for me and my love and "won" me back as deep inside me i knew i truley loved her. We did do a couple fo marriage councilling session but these ended as at the time i was still lying about the affair, and we managed to reconcile by ourselves. I gave my reasons for the affair and the wife actually understand and accepted them such as not getting attention, feeling unloved, unwanted etc and that my wife had been very very closed minded sexually. After reconciling we ended up getting into the swinging scene through mutual agreement and have had a fanatastic time in it, during which we met one couple who because our closest best friend ever and doing a lot of social things together.

Around 8 months ago i started to feel jelous when we went to parties etc that my wife was getting so much attention and had built her confidence up etc and started playing without me been in a room. The problem for me was i never felt comfortable playing without my wife been in the room, to the extent that i had the male problem of not getting hard and used ot make exuses about it. I didnt tell me wife a few times about i didnt like something but she always reasoned i was the one she came to bed with and slept with etc which i accepted and didnt want to spoil the fun she was having.

Over the last 3 months though she had started spending more and more time online chatting to the male half of our best friends to the exntent it was every night for 2 - 4 hrs. I tried talking to her and telling her etc but she would never close her laptop or stop, it didnt seem to matter whether i was in the room or out of it and she just said it was nothing and just chit chat which again i accepted.

So 4 weeks ago she dropped the bomb on me that she wanted a separation, that she didnt love me, didnt find me attractive i didnt turn her on etc etc. I crumbled and went into overdrive on the begging\pleading etc, she went to our "friends" and told them etc and then the following day i went to see them as well and told them how i felt about her and poured my heart out. They said they were both our friends and would talk to us both be stay in the middle and not rely information etc about what the other was saying. The wife went to visit her father with out son the following week whcih had been planned some time previoulsy and gave us space, i chatted all the time the male half of our friends during that week with him telling me things to do etc and giving me what i though was good advice and me telling him things i had noticed about the wife and possible signs of hope.

So she came back and again i did the whole pleading begging thing and been an emotional wreck but she was just cold and hard to me. To cut a long store a bit shorting i installed a keylogger etc on her laptop and found out the chats betwene him and her were a lot more than chit chat and that he had been telling her everything i told him and telling her not to do it and that she had made the right choices and it was ll my fault do the my previous affair etc. I then also found txts on her old fone about going to see him for sex as well without me knowing. I confronted him and his wife and told his wife everything and then my wife that i knew, but she would not admit it to even in the face of proof.

So after a few weeks i managaed to get the wife to agree to go to councilling for us, even though she was still talking about spearation and it was all over and she had no feelings for met. We have had a couple of session with the counciller now and i have had a solo one as well, at the moment the counciller is trying to get us to a place where the wife feels safe at home and that my argument\anger\emotions etc dont come out to hurt her in like the past. I have did start trying to do all the things that i hadnt do in the past liek help out, been attentive, converstion etc tec but the wife had said that this was all a little too much too late but still i continue.

I had read so much and way too much about how to "win" her back etc and 99% i didnt agree with or couldnt do, but this site has given me a clear guide now. I am actively trying to eliminate the love busters and fufill her emotional needs where i can. She is still very cold and hard towards me and sleeping in separate rooms, there is no physical contact\intamcy which i can live with given everything. I did tell the counciller about this site and the basic concepts and she fully understood it and said she does a very similar thing but not as prescriptive with the quiestionaires etc but does understand all the concepts. So i think at the moment the with is in the withdrawl stage whilst i am at conflict, iam trying to execute plan A and create the warm\friendly home that she wants to be in so that as the counciller said then and only then will she let her heart start open instead of her head filled with all the negative things.

Sorry this has been a longish post but hope it gives everyone a good background and where we are today and that any comments, suggestions from people can follow. I just hope our marriage can be saved even though the wife at the moment is not in that head space.
Dave

Welcome to MB.

What have you done to expose? When are you quitting the swinging lifestyle?

Please read.
Exposure 101

Please listen.
Radio clip on Swinging Lifestyle
Segment #2

I think that's AWESOME that your wife is no longer so closed minded! It sounds to me like you need to keep an open mind.

[quote=BrainHurtsWelcome to MB.

What have you done to expose? When are you quitting the swinging lifestyle? [/quote]

I told his wife family close friends etc about what has happened etc and during councilling last night my wife swore on our sons life that she has had no contact with him what so ever, she has come of facebook etc, msn etc. I do knot this is also no so much about the affair as the background and the way i have been in the past, just as making promises to change and then breaking them. The couple were very very close friends who i trusted (but now i dont) and used to have no issues with the chit chat etc as it is part of the scene. We have come off the scene completely now, no profiles on sites etc, as i said we are in separte bedrooms she doesnt want me to see her naked or touch her etc. I just want her to see the changes i am making, know they are real and let her heart open to me

Yes and i love her to pieces just i stopped showing it and got jelous i love the way she is now, and just want to "win" back her heart

The biggest issue right now is that she is saying that she has no feelings etc, doesnt love me and cant make herself love me etc. I have said i dont want her to make herself love me but see the changes and be able to feel proud of me and let herself love me.

I know her love bank is zero of negative right now and that at the moment all her negative emotions in her head are her defense wall to protect her from the past hurts. This is a tune to what the counciller said last night that i have to create a safe\warm\relaxed home for her so that she can let the feelings in her heart come into play. I know that deep down inside she does love me and wants to make this work but right now things are very raw to her and she doesnt want to get hurt again like previous times when i have said i will change only to fall back.

I wish i could just hug her and say we can get through this and be stronger from it, but i know its early days for that yet. When i met the counciller alone i told her how i felt and that i just wish my wife would come out and say she would try but know she wont. The counciller said "no she wont right now" but dont i think the fact she went from been dead set against counciller to agreeing to come (after i exposed) is a sign and that she is willing and wanting to keep coming and has even talked about the future when she returns to work (teacher) moving her job schedule to be able to come to councilling. I had picked up on these things as been signs but not said anything and was nice to hear the counciller saying the same without me saying anything.

Can you be open minded to the fact that she has found a new love now and is moving on? See, what usually happens with swingers is the wife finds a new love and moves on.

Want to know why? She knows she is married to a CAD who doesn't care about her [what kind of a husband pimps his own wife out, after all]. Women love ONE MAN at a time and they need to feel an emotional attachment to a man in order to enjoy sex. Therefore, when they begin swinging, they often become emotionally attached to their new adultery partner. And since women love ONE MAN at a time, they dump the pimp husband.

So what you did by pimping out your wife was to hand her over to another man. No matter what you call adultery, "swinging," it is a disaster to marriage.

melody i hear what you saying but we went into mutually agreeing and both had lots of fun for a couple of years. The problem is i started to get jelous and rather than say something i felt guilt because of my affair and didnt want to spoil her fun, this is somethig i have talked to counsiller about. There was certainly no pimping going on at all and like i say we had lots of fun for the first couple of years. All of it has stopped now and there is no contact with the other couple in anyway shape or form (which she made her furious, saying she lost best friends etc) but that was the exposure. She did admit to having the EA and seeing for sex without me knowing last night so we have the truth out now.

What i am looking for is how best i win her heart back show her i am the man she married and really love and here for her how best to look after her and our son etc. LIke i say all contact and swinging has stopped, she stopped talking separation and started to talk about lil furutre things etc i just love her to bits and i stopped showing and saying and doing it

I have no doubt this was YOUR SICK IDEA and your wife thought she could save her marriage after your affair if she committed adultery with you. Betrayed spouses are under enormous pressure to save a marriage after an affair and often agree to sicko ideas like this to keep the marriage. "Open minded" indeed! What is they say about not being too open minded because your brains will fall out? Swinging [another name for adultery] sure demonstrates that principle, doesn't it?


And that is ok, but it is you who condoned the affair. You had an agreement to commit adultery. Adultery is adultery and women need to feel an emotional attachment to enjoy sex. You were complicit in all this.

melody,

I understand the things you are saying and where you are coming from, but in the start the idea of a 3some etc actually was very mutual and like i say for a few years we have both had a great time.

I didnt condone what she was doing as i didnt actually know, maybe i put my head in the sand so to speak. She has admited she took it beyond the scene and feels ashamed and guilt for what she has done. Yes there is "some" emotional attachement but she admits it went way beyond this. The guys wife was unaware as well as to what had gone on until i told her and showed her the proof as well. So its all exposed and out now

So like i have said, i am trying to rebuild our marriage, show her i am changing etc and would like any advice on how best to do this. My heart is 150% in this and from the little signs she is giving off i know she is trying as well but just cant come out and say it for fear of getting hurt like past time. I know i aint perfect and fcked up but by god i am trying to win her back and show her how much i always have loved her and that i am the man to be with and our family can be better than it has ever been. So any constructiv suggestions and advice are appreciated on what i should and shouldnt be doing, to move forward. I know its early days and like most men want to run before i can work, but i believe in the MB concepts and see them as the way for us to get our marriage back together.

Did you listen to the clips?

yes i listened to them and very helpful, although i would say my wife isnt a sex addict at all, yeah we had fun at parties but she definately isnt itching to get back into the scene etc. also we always went together she never went alone, if i said i didnt want to go then we never went. I never actually said i wanted us to stop either, as inside me i felt guilty becuase of my affair and didnt want her to stop having fun and feel like i was spoiling things. I guess that is where the problem lays in that i got jelous and rather than speak up i tried to ignore it and just go with the flow.

like i have previously said she seems to give out signs that she is willing to try and work things out but just cant see it as of yet. So like i have said, i am trying to rebuild our marriage, show her i am changing etc and would like any advice on how best to do this. My heart is 150% in this and from the little signs she is giving off i know she is trying as well but just cant come out and say it for fear of getting hurt like past time. I know i aint perfect and fcked up but by god i am trying to win her back and show her how much i always have loved her and that i am the man to be with and our family can be better than it has ever been. So any constructiv suggestions and advice are appreciated on what i should and shouldnt be doing, to move forward. I know its early days and like most men want to run before i can work, but i believe in the MB concepts and see them as the way for us to get our marriage back together.

Was it very mutual because she felt pressured to be "open minded?" My point is that the fact that you cared so little about your wife that you persuaded her to commit adultery has to have had a devastating effect on her. She would know how little you cared about her.

Many of the wives of swingers we have seen here over the years felt very pressured to commit adultery and felt PIMPED out. They believed they had to do this to save their marriages. But deep down they know their husbands don't care about them.

I wonder if your wife knows you don't care?

I am sure you had a great time for a few years committing adultery, but as you can see, it actually pushed your wife away. Adultery is always destructive to self and to marriage and I don't see that you understand this. You seem to think that adultery is ok as long as it is mutually agreed upon. Is that so?

The first step would be to disavow your adulterous lifestyle and stay away from people like this. But it doesn't seem like you even feel there is anything wrong with this. You can't have a normal marriage when there is not exclusivity.

Also, have you both been checked for STDs?

As I already said we have both left it now, profiles gone etc and have left the friends n scene behind and what has happened has happened niether if us can change it, so where do I gofrom here?

From the glowing way you discuss adultery, I am concerned that you understand how destructive this lifestyle really is. It makes be think there is more than adultery here, but a worldview problem. Do you understand how destructive adultery is to a marriage?

Yes i undersatdn, and whether yoru agree or not with swinging on a moral and personal note i dount thing bares relevance. I am asking for help and advice from the community as to how i should move foward to save my marriage and my wife and son

It is this paragraph that is problematic. First off, you blame your wife for your affair and don't seem to take any accountability for your own part. And secondly, you cite her "very, very closed mind" while extolling the virtues of adultery.

Do you think that people who don't practice adultery are "closed minded?" And are you still under the illusion that adultery is "fantastic?" This perception is the view of someone who is still very foggy. It is like the crackhead who destroys his life using crack and still extols the virtues of crack. He is not in recovery until he realistically sees how destructive it is to be a crack head.

It absolutely bears relevance, because unless you understand and accept that adultery is about the worst thing you can do, then your marriage will always be at great risk because your WORLDVIEW is a threat to the marriage.

One thing you have to agree with is that adultery is the most destructive thing that can happen to marriage. And you have done it multiple times. Unless you understand there is something very wrong with adultery, then your marriage won't recover because part of recovery is correcting bad behavior.