Don't minimize it with hindsight. Own it.

Also own that your affair was "your own selfish choice" to turn away from her. Unmet needs are not a reason to turn away. That will never solve the problem.

reading it as we speak

I do own it, i was just merely saying hindsight allows me to see this now. Regarding my affair i did admit to her that it was my own selfish needs and not talking to her how i felt etc and it was my choice and a wrong one.

Good. Come back with questions and thoughts.

Have read thorugh most of it and re reading it as well, the only think i cant relate to is the fact in all cases it is a one sided affair and i am unsure as to whether we are still dealing with my original affair or what my wife has done or both together

also the other problem i am in is that a lot of what i read is very much similar to when i had my affair and my wife wanted me back to fight for the marriage etc. this time though at the moment all she says is she cares for me but doesnt love me and doesnt find me attractive etc. Are these just her defesnes that she has to protect herslef from hurt, or is she still in the "fog" or has she even got to withdrawel etc yet


another point to add is that she has said to me that she achowledges what she did was wrong and that she has hurt me and wants to be open and honest about it. Do i sit down and tell her that i forgive her and that i blame myself for what happened or say something else to this?

Have you told your wife you are sorry for degrading her? I think its real important to express to her that you understand now how very uncaring and unloving it was to ask her commit adultery. Admit to her that this was a scheme that only served as a cover so you could continue to commit adultery.

This is the first time I have seen you really admit and acknowledge that you made a mistake and participated in the degradation of your wife. You sure didn't feel that way in your initial post. In fact, I saw absolutely no regret, just a strong desire to sweep it all under the rug.

I don't see how your wife can EVER feel safe with you unless you express genuine and sincere remorse for your swinging lifestyle along with a promise to never do it again. And I don't mean weasel words like "wrong time" and "wrong place;" I mean a sincere foreswearing of an immoral and destructive lifestyle at ANY time and ANY place.

Another concern is pornography. Most swingers we have seen here over the years had a porn problem. Do you look at porn?

I would tell her what I told you in my last post and ask for the opportunity to earn her forgiveness for dragging her into your adulterous lifestyle. Your wife is responsible for her participation too, but she is there because of you.

hi mel,

sorry for yesterday i think i was just in an emotional state and denial as well, yes i have apologized to her for both the affair and what i led her into and said how much i regret what has happened, i did say how much harm it has caused and it wasnt right and that if we are to remain married it would be just the two of us as it should always have been.

Regarding the pornography i am have to admit that its one thing that has never done anything for me at all, swear on my sons life on that.

I have asked her to give me time and see the changes in me such as not commiting LB and trying as much as she will allow me to meet her EN. As i say at the moment she is very down\withdraw regarding the future but isnt running out of the door or thinking of separtion and has said "time will tell" if her feelings change. . . is this a positive thing?

Ok, I am confused. You express regret for the FIRST TIME in this post. When did you ever express such regret to her? In your posts you talk about your angry outbursts and meeting her needs, but were just talking about swinging in glowing terms YESTERDAY.

Have you been radically honest about how this all came to be? From what I see the swinging ploy was a way for you to continue committing adultery after your affair. Your wife needs to hear you say that and hear your remorse for being so profoundly uncaring.

I am concerned that you don't understand how much of a problem this is and are sweeping it under the rug. Yes, you have to stop angry outbursts, but the greater risk to your marriage was the damage caused by handing your wife over to a "posse of snakes." [as NG so aptly put it]

And she may even brush this off now as you are doing. The reason is because she is in the fog. But when she comes out of the fog, she will be struck with the gravity of what happened.

You invited this guy into the bedroom to share your wife. You gave her the drug and even took pleasure in watching her take it.

Forgive her for what?

Mel,

I have told evertyhing there is to tell as to what has happed, i do understand how much a problem swingin has been and do not brush it under the carpet. But as i have read on here by Dr Harley the focus has to be on the present and future and no the past as all that does it bring back more pain and resentment. So that is that i am trying to do, one thing that i am unsure of based on your what yoru saying is how does she come out of the fog? and do i sit down and verbally forgive her for saying to me she admits what she did was wrong as well. Please dont see this as me blaming her or brushing under the carpet as well.

She admitted that she took things beyond the scene and had an emotional affair and then physical affair with him without my knowledge or his wifes. She said she feels guilt n not proud about it and knows it was wrong and has hurt me and his wife

So do I tell her I forgive her and that I am the one to blame not her is what I was meaning

It seems as if you're implying that she is to blame here because she broke "swinging rules" by having sex without you there to watch. And somehow that is worse than or equally bad as you having an affair and subsequently getting her into the "lifestyle". I have a strong feeling neither of you would have ended up there if it weren't for you. So stop the crap about forgiving her. Maybe later, down the road you can deal with that part. But deal with the main cause of all this first. YOU.

I am well aware of what Dr Harley says so don't try that with me. And he does not advocate sweeping problems under the rug. He advocates complete and radical honesty about the past. You have not only swept this issue under the rug on this thread, you were extolling the virtues of swinging in your first post. That attitude does not reflect a sincere remorse for your crimes or even the awareness that it was wrong.

So, before you sweep it under the rug, it has to be addressed. In order to move on, you have to acknowledge what you did, express an understanding of why it is wrong and pledge to never do it again.


I am not clear on what she need your forgiveness about? She has been having affairs with your approval. You are the one who handed her over to this snake. When you teach a child to steal and he............ steals, do you blame the kid or do you blame yourself?

You need to ask for her forgiveness for dragging her into an adulterous lifestyle. This is all on YOU. She did exactly what you set her up for.

Dr Harley says that a complete understanding of the past is essential in moving forward. That has not happened here.


In other words, radical honesty is required about how you set the whole stage to bring her into your adulterous lifestyle.

I suspect you did this so you could continue committing adultery after you got caught in your affair. If she were involved too, then she couldn't blame you for committing adultery and SHE could be the bad guy instead of you. Right?

So no, until you are completely honest about what transpired here and take accountability you can't go forward.

No I am not blaming her she is in essence blaming herself I would what I shouldn't to her to try and take the guilt she feels away for what she did that is all

Its more than a little ridiculous to blame her for not conducting her affair in a way of which you approved when it was YOU who threw her into the affair in the first place.

If its ok for YOU to make up the rules as you go along, it is ok for her to do the same. After all, you told her she was being "close minded." Maybe you should practice what you preach.

The only problem I see here is that you got hoisted on your own petard. Can't blame her for that!

Mel

I am not sure what I can say I have told everything, acknowledged and admitted that I am to blame and renounce the adultorus lifestyle so what else do I say n do