Ok swinging is porn evil, I admit it, it's adultorus and now form should ever be allowed in a marriage

WOW, did I hear the earth rumble?

HELP

Dave. Do you see how it feels to be forced to agree with something that you don't agree with?

Are you starting to feel resentment?


Only thing is that swinging really is the same as porn and is a killer in marriages. I just want you to understand that and not just agree to appease us. It is really important that you sincerely get that.

How are you going to prove to your wife that you will protect her going forward? She needs to see "actions" as well as words of remorse.

Have you read about the policy of joint agreement?

Pokerface, I have read so much it hurts my head and I am asking for advice in what I should do, indie girl says plan a which is what I thought are you suggesting something different? you have to remember what I said that at the momens she doesn't love me etc and anything I seem to say/suggest to her she says is more pressure

Definitely Plan A.



The Policy of Joint Agreement
Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement
between you and your spouse.


This is how you need to start living your life. This is how she will start to feel safe that you won't coerce her into doing things she does not enjoy.

Policy of Joint Agreement

my suggestion would be to plan A and prepare a list of EPs that you will present your wife showing her what actions you are willing to take from now on to make her feel safe in the marriage. I get the feeling that your wife wants actions not just words at this point.


EP stands for Extraordinary precautions

Start with the precautions you didn't t take that led to your first affair then move on to the precautions you need to take to repair the damage done since then including the swinging scene.

For example if your first affair happened because you let another woman meet your need for admiration by you accepting compliments from her your extraordinary precaution would be - I will not allow any woman other than my wife to compliment me.

If you had Facebook interactions with other swingers your extraordinary precaution should be - I will permanently delete Facebook any and any other social media site where any person from the swinging lifestyle could contact me.

Other suggested EPs would be

1) change contact numbers
2) give your wife all passwords to your email accounts
3) delete/destroy any photos you have of any friends from the lifestyle you are getting away from and any online photos you used in your swingers ads/profiles.
4) will always let your wife know where you are and always be available for her to verify where you are.
5) No more nights apart EVER.
6) will avoid any inappropriate contact with any other woman and will let your wife know if you have any inappropriate contact with anyone.
7) no opposite sex friendships


There are plenty more EPs you can add to give your Wife some security, just remember they are EXTRAORDINARY precautions, some might sound obvious but they still need to be written down.

As far as plan A goes, do you have any idea what your wife's top emotional needs are?? What do you plan to do to meet those needs?

Waywards often put up a resistance against their spouses when it comes to plan A but if you carry on doing it and hit your wife's top EN's regularly and consistently you will definitely start to see the positive changes.

How about start with an apology letter to your wife taking responsibility?

Post it here first for feedback.

This already been done verbally now, see posts above

What was her reaction to the apologies? Like I said, she's unlikely to make it easy for you, but keep plugging away.behave towards her the way you did when you were courting her.


That's just a natural side effect of another man filling her lovebank. It cancels out yours. Very normal. You just need to fill it up again, court her, Plan A her.



Ah bless you, a foggy wayward isn't going to sit down and fill out forms! You need to meet her top ENs on a guesswork basis. When you were courting, what made her fall in love? You might also ask her conversationally what sort of things she would like more of. If she just says she doesn't find you attractive, just nod and say you'd like to hear what she needs right now.

Behave just as you did way back when, when you first won her. I doubt you walked up to her and had SF, you had to win her over with conversation and affection and being a good catch.

I'm going to hazard a guess that SF isn't a top EN for her anyway. I think, like many women, she enjoys it but mainly for the very specific type of admiration and affection it gives her.

You can meet those two needs without physical touch. And even if she does have a high SF need then she won't care about it while her lovebank is low.

And start welcoming the bashing!!! Lots of fine posters are still talking to you and willing to bootcamp you. I would only start to worry if they go away.

And calm down. Panic will get you nowhere, you have a plan.

Can you list some EPs that you will offer your wife?

Other posters have made excellent suggestions.

EPs make BSs feel safe - this is a way of showing affection AND remorse.

she listened and seemed to accept them and what i was saying and apologising for, all she was that was in the past and history and to focus on the present as the past cannot be changed.


That is exaclty what i want and am trying to do, i realise she has a lot of defense walls in place and i just have to keep plugging away at them. Glad to hear someone tell me its normal and not peronsal as such.


Yeah i see that as well and trying to use guess work on the EN's which i think are Conversation, Affection, Sexual Fulfilment, Admiration, in general her complaints about me have been me not helping out and her feeling like a single mum as well. So i have been working hard on conversation and this is something the counciller we are seeing is trying to get us to so that she feels realxed, calm, safe at home with me. The affection need i obviously cant fulfill with touch etc but i am giving compliments and tell her i love her etc, SF is definately out of bounds right now. I will try asking her about what she needs right now but from previous conversations she has said she wants peace\calm\safe friendly home and atmospehere and to not feel frightend\scared by my reactions as well.

See above

- ok and yes i agree at least right now its off the agenda

which two were you refering her to



Thanks and yeah i know, i guess its the emotional roller coaster i am on internally, so if i have offened anyone who is replying please accept my apologies and try not to take it personal i do see the help you are all trying to give me.

This isnt very practicle due been a business line as well, but i have told her she can check whenever she wants to.

I have done this and her response was that she wasnt interesterd as she knows what its feels like to be snooped on after i had done it to her.

Again this has been done and all profiles etc have gone.

Doing this if i go out for a walk round the block to calm down or a drive i tell her before i go and where i am going.

I dont want any nights aparts the only times this happenes is when she has gone to visit her father with our son.

Again this is something i have told her as well.

The only friendships that do exists are mutual friends who are not in the scene\lifestyle.

One thing i was doing on facebook when the bomb was dropped was i constantly posting how i felt\poems etc and tagging her in them. As a result she deactivited her account telling me she was feeling so much pressure etc. I apologised for this and said it had been wrong and that it wasnt meant to be pressure just me trying to tell\show her how much she felt but i achkowledged her feelings. I said if she did go back on facebook i promised to not post etc but she said she didnt trust me etc which i understand. Yesterday i noticed she had reactiviated her account, i have removed all of the messages etc that i had posted and have not said anything about notcigin she has reacctivated her account. I think and someone tell me if i am wrong that this may be a little sign from her of feelign safer and starting to show some trust.

There have been other little signs i think as well that i say nothing about and just take as positive such as when she moved into the spare room to start she always had the door shut when she went to bed, now she starts to leave it ajar. She was comfortable with me seeing her in her PJ's ( they are quite skimpy) now it doesnt seem to bother her. When she takes the washing in she still folds my things in a separate pile from hers and doesnt iron them, when i iron my and our sons i have offered to iron hers but she says she doesnt want me to so i dont but i always ask, but to start she would take her underwear and our sons upstairs and just leave mine. Now she has started also taking my underwear upstairs as well. As i say they all seem tiny signs that i see but dont saying or raise anything about.

One thing i have personal started doing is writing a journal just so i can put my thoughts\feelings down and let them out which i think is a good thinnk as well. I have also started writing down all the things i love about my wife some of them are silly ones etc but it feels good to write them down. I do recognize i have a long road ahead and everyday before i say anything i do through the LB's in my mind first to check what i am saying, a big one has been my AO which have made her frightedn\scared of me which she told the counciller and i have acknowledged this and actively trying to stop. The counciller has said that when i have my next session alone with her that is something we can deleve more into but until then we have all agreed that if my wife feels that i am getting angry etc the sign she will give is to screw up a piece of tissue\kitchen papaer\tolet papaer etc and walk away as my wife said she doesnt feel comfortable saying anything as in the past when she had said something that had got me worse. So i am actively trying to stop the AO myself by stopping deep breathing etc, also i have an elastic band on my wrist witch i twang when i start to feel things.

Interesting thing the counciller had said in our last session was that whilst my wife had said thing in the past and they hadnt got through etc and made me worse was that whilst in the past i hadnt recognized by issues this time i clearly was and that i need my wifes feedback as well and we are a team, which my wife has agreed with and to.

I don't like this ONE BIT. It's been bothering me since you posted it last night. Huge red flag.

She knows you're trying to win her over so she suggests one way to do that is to avoid snooping. Because of how it makes her feel. Poppycock.

Lets remember this guy is probably a serial cheater and an accomplished wayward. He has had a lot of time and opportunity to brainwash her too. I would bet there's a secret IM account or a secret affair phone in which they can stay in touch.

What are your snooping tools, right now?

Remember a huge part of your job is protecting her - from herself and the addiction she's built up, and from this snake-man.


(Well done on offering transparency, though. though she doesnt value it right now, it makes it harder for her/snakeman to demonise you)

No what she said was she didnt want to snoop on me as she knows how it feels to be snooped on.



I agree and have found at since from various source this is not the first time he has done this.

been a computer developer i have everyong on wifi records, and phone etcs any other tips?

- thanks

Sorry that's way above me! what are wifi records? can you see everything she does online, like with a keylogger is what I was getting at. What can you see on her phone? The records?

If so, that's pretty good. I would also put a Voice Activated Recorder or VAR in her car and in the house where she would talk on the phone. And a GPS in her car or on her phone.

A VAR is the usual way to find a secret affair phone. And they usually talk in their car or when you are out.

Does she ever go out without you being able to confirm where she's headed?

One huge one.

Seems as she does not want to accept the offer from her BH to be transparent because this WW does not want to do the same.

Makes me think and fear that she is hiding contact and other things.

Basically I have everyting tracked n covered, have managed to find out through other sources though the the OM and his wife ate quoting their jobs and going round the world for a year, sounds like him tryingto run away and convince his wife etc

Installing a VAR is pretty hard on the UKand can actuall be used against me in court Si just going to have to trust my wife now

Well I have given them to her whether she uses them or not is upto her a guess