Would it help if I sent her a link to the site / basic concepts/ LB/EN etc or print out the forms and just leave them where she could see/find them?

I just bumped a thread in the Recovery Forum titled: False Recovery.

Check it out.

will read it now

dotnetdave --

I can see that you want to wipe the slate clean and just start from here and now. You just want to move forward, but what you aren't realizing is how very important it is to acknowledge and reprocess how your thoughts and attitudes got you to this point.

We are not big believers in navel-gazing about childhood and how your family-of-origin messed you up. But we are big believers in analyzing your CURRENT thought processes and attitudes towards marriage.

So answering and considering Melody's questions is the most important thing you could ever ever do if you want a restored marriage. And you have absolutely no idea how very lucky you are to have Melody guiding you through that process. Do not ask her to leave!

My questions for you are these: What does a restored marriage look like to you? What role does swinging/fantasies/adultery/porn play in your restored marriage? Will your wife post here? Do you know what your wifes most important emotional needs are? Has she (or you) completed the questionaires? Would she participate in MB counseling?

Develop a thick skin.

If you say 'Good morning sweetheart, did you sleep well? You look beautiful today' and she gives you a response that is sarcastic/moody/monosyllabic or she flees from the room.....

You have still met an affection and admiration need. Two needs done!

Her wary reaction is up to her and will take to time to change. The key thing is that you are meeting needs with no expectations.

As long as you can say each day that you've met her ENs, haven't lovebusted, protected her from OM, and kept your own boundaries with women....

Then you're doing it.

In fact, its quite common for waywards to push away when they start to feel things for their spouse again. Its confusing for them.

If you give us some examples of interactions, we can give you pointers.

But I too am q concerned about the possibility of an FR and ongoing contact so keep your eye on that.

What does a restored marriage look like to you?
just me my wife n our son, been able hold each other, gaze in eachothers eyes, walk hand in hand, grow old together n never be apart

What role does swinging/fantasies/adultery/porn play in your restored marriage? Absolutely no role what so ever just me and my wife

Will your wife post here? As I have said any suggestions from are perceived as pressure and haven't told her anything about the mob site yet

Do you know what your wifes most important emotional needs are? Guessing conversation, affection, famil, honesty

Has she (or you) completed the questionaires? I have but like I said she knows nothing of the site

Would she participate in MB counseling? Well the councilling we are seeing is very aware of the mb way

[quote=indiegirlIf you give us some examples of interactions, we can give you pointers.
[/quote]

basically i am doing the sort of things like you mentioned, saying morning, night, caying she looks nice etc, thanking her when she cooks, i am actively doing more housework and cookin some meals as well.

Would it help if I sent her a link to the site / basic concepts/ LB/EN etc or print out the forms and just leave them where she could see/find them?

Don't try to "educate" her about marriage builders. She will not be receptive to these tools while she still feels IN-love with OM, and OUT-of love with you.

Work on restoring romantic love with your wife. Court her.
Just like you did before you married her. Be interested in her. Date her. Talk to her.

Avoid heavy relationship discussions. Talk about FUN things. Dreams. Goals. Make her laugh. Be the highlight of her day.

ok cool, this somethign that i excited to do and date and court here again, i would love to book a surpsie meal arrange childcare etc but just feel right now she isnt ready for it

a small update i did ask her if she actualy believed the things i had been saying to her about how i felt and am changing and how much she means to me and did she want to have the feeling back she once had for me and this is the reply i got back.

"it is hard for me to say i believe you as i have hard this many times. i havent been treated very nice for a along time whilch makes me feel a fool for believeing it and still been sat here now"

Now i dont know what other people think but to me i read the underlying message was that she is saying she is believing me and feels a fool that she is no and still been here and not run out of the door. What do other people think to this statement?

ok had a 1hr talk with wife this morning and both of us in tears at various points, i remained calm and gently thoughout trying to ensure no LB.

to sum up, she basically said that she feels a fool for been here now for believing me in the past and she is also very very scared of leaving and been without our son. Her believe is that i will get aggresive\nasty\angry etc if she decides to leave and i fight for custody of our son. I asked if she wants to try and save our marriage etc and that i can be the man she wants to stay with and she cannot say either yes or no that there is so much hurt built up over time just lots of little things as well. She does see the changes in me already buts doesnt know if even with the changes i will still be the man she wants to be with

I asked but having some time for the changes to continue and improve and see if her feelings change etc. To this she said how long does she wait until she is 50? and then live a lie and waste her life. I suggested about 6months and she said more until the end of the year. I said during that time i would continue to keep my changes and improve them and let her see, and that i would keep showing her the respect\admiration\affection etc during that time as well. She said she has nothing to give back right now (which i understand and know comes in time, where feelings follow actions). I did say that if she feels nothning etc could change then she is free to walk away now and to that she said she has nowhere to go. She then said we could talk about this plan and a timeframe with our counciller at the next meeting (1.5 weeks time due to her been on holiday)

So where does it leave me, i am not 100% sure, but it seems and feels like from her txts and talking that she wants to say "we will try and give it some time" etc but without actually been able to come out with the words and say it, so says it in a roundabout way. She tells me i over analysye everything and i did explain to her it was becuase i was getting mixed messages like she would txt one thing and then follow it up with another trying to recide it (she even did this in a councilling session) I know this is going to be hard and i have to gain her heart and belief in me without anything in return which i expect. Whilst talking about giving it some time i did say when we get to the end of the timeframe we review how we both feel and if things are getting better etc then we do another x timeframe and so on. I have also said to her if there is anything i can do to make her feel less scared\frightend then to tell me and i will do whatever it takes.

So thats the situation now, any advice and support on how i can fufill EN's of affection, admiriation, family commitment, conversation etc would really be appreciated. There is definately NO touching allowed as she doesnt feel comfortable with it right now and also trying to take her out on my own is not something she would entertain right now and that makes her feel like i am been controlling and pressurizing

Stop having heavy dull hurtful unhappy tearful conversations with her.

Start having fun playful happy laughing conversations with her.

Do you see the difference?

In the former, she is using it to push her agenda of seperation. She wants you to feel guilty for all your past transgressions so that you will be cooperative and accommodating in seperation. Stop setting her up and HELPING her. Stop having these conversations. You are NOT going to get some kind of magic agreement out of her. You cannot TALK her into reconciling.

Show her.

Go back in time and recreate the environment in which she fell in love with you.
I bet you had fun. I bet you enjoyed the time spent together. I bet you looked forward to the next interaction.

No more negative unhappy conversations. Make her laugh.

- Point noted and understood and will stop, just breaks my heart when i see her so sad and so want to help her.

- I have been trying to do this, even just idle chit chat but she seems to find it really hard to do, and when i do try this she cites how i am prentending to be "normal" like there isnt any issues.

- Yes i can

- Yes i know, this is just so hard and i know i dont have the magic pill (god i wish i did) how would you say i should be showing her though given she seems to reject fufilling her EN's

- Yes we did, to give some background to this that may help with suggestions we met and then after a few months i moved away to london (125miles away) we continued like that for 4yrs she would come visit me or i would visit her ever few weekends. when i went to her we would go shopping or to the moviews etc and when she came to me we would either go out or stay cuddled up on the sofa.

- Any suggestion on how i can go about this with her as she doesnt seem to want to talk\interact that much and when i try i get that i am ignoring the siutation and just carrying on.

Please dont feel like i am putting up blocks to yoru questions just giving real responses and the things she is saying to me. I have asked her to meet me in the local BIG park just for us to be alone in public walking etc, but she wont come and when i have suggested the us going out together with our son she says she doesnt feel comfortable and that it is pressuring her (she brought this up with the counciller as well)

Sounds like you both have a lot of history together both good and bad. From the sound of things, you have a window of opportunity here to win her heart back, which is a good thing.

However, it is going to take a very long time to prove you have changed.

As has been mentioned NO heavy conversations about the future. Keep it light and positive.

Did you read the thread in R about False Recoveries? I bumped it so you could read from others what they would have done differently knowing what they know now. This would have been a huge help for me after dday.

I have a question for you though. These internal changes you speak of for yourself.

First, what are the LB�s you have identified in yourself? and� WHY are you examining yourself and trying to change your destructive tendencies?

- yes i know this so much and i have said in the past to her that i will fight like i never have before for her and our marriage at that if it takes 6months or a year of going to councilling every week i am there i aint giving in, her response is she cant see her feelings etc changed but i am tryign to stay positive with the help of you guys.

- Yep point taken and noted down now, and i am trying.

Yes i have read it and going to read it again as well, picked up on a few things i hadnt said and now said them as well




well pretty much all of them, my worst would be AO, SD, DJ, ID. I recognize these now given everything that has happened my wife has said about these sorts of things before and what i felt nagged me about them and i have not actually ever recognized the issue. When this all hit i took a long hard look at myself and when i found the MB site and read about the LB's i recognized for the first time that i was doing all of theses things. My worst is AO which i am guilty of not staying calm and flying off the handle, putting my wife down, not considering her point of view, forcing my opionon etc on her and other people. Like i say reading about them on here i just so recognized them and felt like smacking myself round the head with a shovel. This was brought up at our last councilling session as well with my wife citing how she had tried in the past to tell me etc and that whilst i had changed for a short while i then slipped bag. The counciller did point out the fact of what has now happened and situation is the thing which has made me recognize them and adress them and that we are a team and that my wifes feedback to me is teamwork. My wife is just frightened of how i will react etc though at the moment and doesnt feel she can say things that i wont like for fear of my reactions. This was why we agreed on the fact that if my wife feals i am getting angry she will screw up a pieves of kitchen\toilet\tissue etc and thrown it down as a sign as she is more confortable doing that than saying something.

I feel just a loser for making my wife feel like and i do beat myself up about it, i am going to working on anger management solo with our counciller to deal with this as well.

Fantastic! Now you are getting somewhere. You are starting to be honest with YOURSELF..seeing the shortcoming you have in your character and making positive changes. Being honest with yourself is absolutely the first step.

I had many of the same problems, Dave. I can relate. I woke up one day and told myself this is not who I wanted to be. This was not the real me and decided then and there to be a better me for ME. No one else. Once I became a better me for ME, I would then be a better me for her.

See the difference? It was life changing for me.

The reason I asked you WHY you were changing these things is very important Dave. If you are changing for HER she will know it. Yes, it is critically important to modify your behavior for your W. Yes, it is critically important for you to modify your behavior for your M.

However, if she senses that you are changing just for her and not for yourself..you know to just be a better YOU!...she may perceive these changes to be contrived or temporary.

After all the bad years, she thinks you are trying to trick her into staying now. It is your job to change that perception.

How in the heck is Dave going to change??? Impossible. I don't belive it. Guarantee that is EXACTLY what she is thinking.

That is why everyone was being so hard on you in the beginning. In order to truly change, we must become humble. Easy? I think not. Rewarding? Hell yes!! I am very proud of myself for who I have become. Others have noticed. Do I have a long way to go? Do I still fight tendencies daily?

Yes.

By becoming a better person, Dave, Everyone wins! Change for you and she will see the difference.

She doesn�t have hope that she will fall back in love with you. My W didn�t either. You made her fall in love with you once, you can do it again.

BTW

I would strongly suggest you drop the councilor like a lead balloon. Read up what Dr Harley's says about them. Way more destructive than helpful. He has written a lot on them.

link�VETS????

They have no idea how to build romantic love and save marriages.

I am speaking from experience. Best thing we ever did was drop our counselor and jump into MB with both feet.

I know and accept what your saying but our counciller is very aware of the MB concept and principles and does use it along with other tools as well depending on the situation. If it hadnt been the counciller i wouldnt be here today even talking like this, so its not something i am going ot suggest dropping or changing, are the moment my wife is beginning to trust and believe the counciller which is a great asset and the counciller is defiantely all about saving and reconciling marriages.

Yes and thanks for the positive, and my wife has said i have to be making change for myself as well to which i have said i am making changes for ME, US and our Family

Yes and this has been the problem in the past i have made changes because she "nagged" without accepting the issues and hence slipping back again.

- I know that to change the perception will take time as well, and she has in a roundabout way agreed to it by saying she is willing to see if her feeling change, as i have read before feelings follow actions, so my changes\actions can cause her feelings to change.

- Yes i know and well done to you, i just hope beyond hope my wife can change her feelings and fall back in love me again.