I'm not entirely sure what you are saying, but the Love Bank explains what happens in an affair. Yes, it is absolutely true that there is no future with this man, whether she was in love with him or not.

Don't obsess over how she felt in the affair. Everybody in an affair feels the feeling of romantic love -- for a person who is incredibly dangerous and ruinous for them! Don't obsess over that fact, follow the plan, because if the two of you follow the plan, your feelings will follow your actions.

Quit coming back to the point of how she felt during the affair.

Exactly! This is all in the Basic Concepts, and it doesn't need to be slogged through over and over, Kgaa. It doesn't change anything. Go back to NeverGuessed's post. Do you want to recover, or not? If you want to recover, then get busy. Don't become someone who blogs on this forum for years and still wonders a decade later what his wife felt in the affair.

She loved him, because he made enough Love Bank deposits to pass the romantic love threshold and trigger the feeling of romantic love. That's how your garden variety affair works. If you follow the rules for long enough, you eventually pass this threshold and feel the feeling. Every time. It's scientific, not magic. And every day in this world, people who don't even know what the Marriage Builders rules are manage to follow those rules accidentally with people who are married to someone else. Then they trigger that feeling of romantic love, and their hormones tell them that they were made for each other, etc.

People who feel the feeling of romantic love actually have this going on in their brains. You can do an MRI on their brain and show them a picture of the person they love and a region of their brain lights up on the MRI. This can happen in marriage, or outside of marriage.

That is why she must never even take the risk of seeing this person again, and you guys must follow the plan so that you feel this feeling for each other.


Yes, affair partners are typically selfish and do not do what it takes to sustain the feeling of romantic love long term. Likewise for addicts, etc. Eventually their selfishness ruins the life of the person in love with them, and the love bank withdrawals catch up. Then you are left withOUT the feeling of romantic love, and without a decent life, as well.

First off, I NEVER once thought it was OK for my wife to even see this OM from a distance. I also discussed this with my wife several times and she understands how "powerful" the affair made her feel in the area of attention and conversation. She tells me that she knows how strong this was in THAT sense and that she wants to avoid the OM at all costs and understands that even listening to his voice on the phone is bad news and a risk to us.

My wife DOES NOT deny the good feelings that the OM's attention and conversation produced, but also defines "love" as the deep care and want of wishing to spend a lifetime with that person, wanting to have that person (OM) take the place of me permently. Wife repeativley states "I want you to be the one in my life that meets ALL my needs, NOT him. She say's she knows what type of guy he is and see's that. YES it did feel good to have those needs met but it is NOT him that I want doing it.

I want to state again, I have went to extreme measures to ensure daily that they are not in contact, and will continue. My wife is afraid to leave the house so as to NOT give me the wrong idea or even make my mind wonder about this.

I don't know what else I can do. She is doing EVERYTHING that the posters have suggested as well as MB. She was actually excited to get a call from a prospective job out of state today.

I remember being told early on when posting that I should watch the actions of my WW, not her words.

Well:

NC written and sent = YES
Exposed = YES
POLY = YES
EP's with No complaints = YES
Reading MB material together = YES
UA = YES
WILLING TO MOVE and working for it = YES

Sooo.... if she is still contacting or wishing to contact the OM and wants nothing to do with me and our marriage, she has fooled MB, Dr. Harley, my kids, the family and everyone else.

I appreciate all the insight here, I do, but my WW and I are doing our very best to follow all MB principles to the "T". What have we NOT done???? Must she admit that she IS in love with this OM as we speak? She admits to positive feeling being produced as a result of him and what he did to create those. She is requesting that of me, as her husband that she wishes to be in love with.

If all those waywards out there were or are actually IN TRUE LOVE with the AP,maybe they should consider being with that person for a lifetime instead? Who wants to destroy TRUE, COMMITED LOVE? YES the "feeling" of love without a doubt can be generated, but I beleive that one, male or female, can see the writing on the wall at some point and say....this was a mistake, a fantasy and something that I'd much rather forget about than cherish and keep feeding.

YES realizing one's vunerablility is of UTMOST importance, I agree. Following the EP's is key, but give us a chance to do something right here.

I cheated (15) years ago, must of got good feeling prior to having the PA with this OW and I never wanted to marry her. I actually cheated twice, WHY, becasue I DID NOT put any EP's in place. I allowed myself to speak with other women outside the presence of my wife and YES it happended again.

Our relocation will accomplish (2) things.

1. A better sense of security to get OM out of life for good. EP on steroids.
2. A fresh start, with NO triggers in area for either one of us.

Don't discuss the definition of love with your wife. Don't quiz your wife about her feelings during the affair. Your marriage can recover regardless of what her feelings were or what each of you chooses to call those feelings, but YOUR MARRIAGE CANNOT RECOVER FROM CONTINUING THESE KINDS OF DISCUSSIONS.

If you want a good definition of love, take a look at Dr. Harley's Love Bank Inventory. He has an actual test to test for the feelings of romantic love. I'm sure BrainHurts can find you a good radio show where he discusses the test.


Don't put your wife through saying this any more. Neither one of you should be bringing up the other man.

Kgaaa, I am not going to argue this to death but I want you to understand that your wife is "in love" with the OM. What you describe is caring love which is very different from romantic love. It does not need to be discussed endlessly. Simply accept it and don't bring it up again like Marcos said.

And yes, I know your wife is doing all the right things and I think that is great. So why the need to trot out examples of contacts with former OW/OM as if to reassure yourself that she won't resume the affair in the future? As long as contact is possible, it is very possible - and very probable - that the affair would resume.

Even Dr Harley is not fooled about the risks of her affair resuming as long as they are in close proximity. This is WHY HE TELLS PEOPLE TO MOVE. Dr Harley did not tell you the affair would not resume and I distinctly remember him saying "good"when you told him you were moving. Telling yourself she won't do it because she has special willpower means you don't understand what you are dealing with. All of the EPs in the world cannot compensate for accidental sightings and triggers brought by place association.

And once again, STOP bringing up her feelings for the OM. We all know how she feels, it is no different from any other affair.

Moved.

Kgaa, you need to move, regardless of whether your wife "gets it" or "doesn't get it." So having a discussion about that subject is fruitless.

I will assume then that many if not ALL of the posters here that are WS spouses must have relocated or there was recontact and false recovery during there process after the affair was discovered. I am with you all...I fully understand the danger, especially unplanned sightings...I also know that I've read much on love bank withdrawals and deposits. Ok, this OM made enough to fool my wife into this fantasy relationship. Also I've done my fare share of making withdrawals since discovering this mess....BUT the OM has made huge withdrawals by the damage he has caused this family, and this is the admitted view of my WW now. Yea if they made the effort to spend some time together and speak on good terms, sure love deposits would commence. I will be working on making my desposits whenever possible to my wife and as long as I can help it the OM won't have that opportunity ever again. Again I get the point here and the danger" but I also dated a girl in high school who I had a "romantic relationship" with and if I saw her or spoke with her and had my barriers set as always I sure wouldn't start to feel in love again. I understand this is to fresh to risk even the slightest contact, but she is still in love with him? High on the situation when fully involved...Yes.. Dreams about him every night, not sure on that one.....either way we are heading the advice here and making the right moves....

2 serious job prospects far away from here that my WW initiated. May get the final word within the week. These things do take some time and I think the advice and support I reach for is how to hold it all together until we R in the airplane moving. In the weeks and months ahead I have to keep things secure and moving in the right direction or all of this will be for not. Thanks.....

Didn't Dr. Harley also advize you to move?

This forum is chock full of affairs that began this way. Most said it wouldn't happen to them too. The fact that you don't understand this danger and believe you are immune is scary and it makes you more vulnerable to an affair.

Did you listen to the phone call between yourself and Dr Harley? He told you that those who believe they would never do that are the MOST vulnerable.

If you believe the risks, then why continue to bring up these anecdotes that demonstrate nothing other than a false sense of immunity? How many times does your marriage have to be hit by a train for you to get it?

I have no idea what you are trying to persuade us to believe here, no idea what you are trying to say. Why are you trying to convince us of something?

Did you come here to learn something or to tell us something.

It sounds like there's some piece of the advice you want to skip or think doesn't apply to your situation, but I have no idea what it is, because I don't understand what you are saying.

Are you trying to tell us that moving is not urgent?

I am confused too, KGaa. You say you GET the advice and are following it, but that is always followed by a BUT....

..that is some kind of anecdote telling us you and your wife have beaten the odds and maintained contact with old affair partners or that you believe you CAN maintain contact with old lovers because you are immune to an affair.

You are the chicken player who stands before us bleeding to death [from being hit by a car] who claims he is a good chicken player.

You and your wife have BOTH had affairs, so it is astonishing that you would come up with these anecdotes that seem intended to prove you are immune. You have proven you are not immune. Just because you might have played chicken numerous times and only got hit 2 or 3 times, does not mean you are a good chicken player.

IT just means you should get your [censored] out of the road.

Very well put and I in no way saying me or we can play chicken or risk our behaviors. My point if there was one is that as I sit her tonight looking for homes on the other side of the country I NOW must continue to live in the environment that the affair took place. Yes EPs are in place and we r understanding what in each of our behaviors caused the bad events in our marriage. We will keep focused on each other and maintaining a marriage thatbisnas affairnproof as it can be until we are moved. And by the way once moved will also continue to live by these principles because I sure affairs can happen anywhere if you allow them.....thanks again....

I actually wrote a reply to this post as well, but then clicked out of it because I thought I might be missing something. Markos, your post was pretty what I wrote.

KGaa, I listened to your convo with Dr. Harley as well, and it really does seem you are trying to pick apart every little detail of the PROVEN process here. Why? What is so difficult to understand?

No, not everyone can relocate when this happens, but if you can it will improve your chances at recovery. Why question and fight it if you are in position to do so?

You made a point of bringing up the possibility of talking to an ex-girlfriend, and your boundaries preventing you from doing the wrong thing in case it does happen. Not sure where that came from, but you said it. Dr. H made it quite clear to you that you should never have contact with a former lover when you are married. Again, why are you continuing to fight a proven method of marital recovery?

Seems to me you're expending more energy fighting the people (and the methods) that YOU have reached out to for help when that energy could be much better used on fixing you and your marriage.

Perfect! {{{{{{{{{{{{{KGAA]}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Salt Lake area is very nice.

Texas is EXTREMELY NICE!! EXTREMELY!!

Yes it is!!! Been applying for jobs in Austin.

Aren't you in Oklahoma now?

This is faulty logic, Kaa. First: OM didn't 'fool' your wife into squat. She CHOSE to enter in to an adulterous affair. If anyone was fooling anyone, they were fooling each other. Gee. How romantic. What has your wife said about this?