There are few totally safe environments we inhabit. And even if we could bound the dangers and exclude them, there is little chance the sacrifices that would have to be made would make the decision supportable.

Ex: Let's say it were proved that no aircraft had ever crashed within its first 100 flights. The gutless, mindless politicians, on getting this data, would therefore decree that every plane must be retired after that milestone. The purchase price of the jet would have to be amortized over the ticket prices for those 100 passenger loads, jacking the prices up into the many-thousands of $.

"But we made you 100% safe on your airtravel," they'd put in their campaign literature.

"Yeah, but now we cannot afford ANY airtravel," would be the answer.

So too with moving/changing jobs, etc. Yes they might guarantee 100% surety against affair rekindling, but stern and unwavering controls and guards against that eventuality, properly monitored and maintained, may yield a 99% surety figure. So in effect the question becomes is the total displacement of a family, with attendant economic hardship, worth the final 1%?

Dr H is well-grounded enough to be wary of making any statement about "mandatory" job or venue changes, especially when the economic impact affects children.

KG you came here railing against your trigger caused by your remaining in place. We responded to you. Now that the bill is coming due, what are your thoughts?

(Disclaimer: I never mandated wife leave her job, and until last year OMW continued to work at the same school, never knowing the true story of her - now deceased - husband's EA with my bride. Moving was never an option to me. I own property here and have a second career based on officiating sports in this area, where I am known and respected. FWW just had to hope that the triggers in my case never got to a critical mass. If they had, it would have been divorce before relocation. Of course I had no MB guidance at the time.)

BUT....you already know she can't be trusted under certain conditions, so "boundaries" are meaningless when faced with an addiction. When faced with an addiction, "boundaries" go out the window.

I don't think you are getting this part, which scares me.

He is well grounded enough to be "ADAMANT" that one move if there is a chance of contact. Kgaa lives in a small community and the OM's parents live very close to him. So, a chance meeting is much, much more than "1%." It is very likely it will happen.

But I think if there were even a "1%" chance that I would get hit by a car again, I believe I might get my [censored] out of the road, don't you?


A better comparison is to consider the economic impact of a continued affair followed by a divorce.

here

The problem with Kgaa is that he does not understand the nature of his wife's addiction. Look at how he is under the illusion that her "boundaries" are a protection against an addiction. That is like me, a recovering alcoholic, going to the bar and claiming my good "boundaries" will protect me. That perspective indicates a complete and utter lack of understanding of the power of addictions.

Here is the bottom line, Kgaa, and then I am not posting on this thread anymore because there is nothing more I can say. It is your marriage to lose, not mine. I can safely say that you have been warned and if you choose to ignore that advice it won't be my fault if her affair resumes.

You are perfectly free to ignore the advice being given here because it is you who will pay the price. Good luck to you.

You needn't yell at me, Mel.

You said the following, just to point out the indefensibility of your position:

if there were even a "1%" chance that I would get hit by a car again, I believe I might get my [censored] out of the road,

But you don't, do you? You walk across streets (in Texas, even!), and you climb into your own vehicle and drive on Interstate highways, at speeds which could easily prove fatal in an accident. You make the same rational judgments that we all do about risk/reward balances in every facet of living.

KG may or may not choose to move. The risks of affair rekindling would be higher if he stays. The risks of income reduction and displacement would be higher if he moves. I'm not him, and I do not know his employable skill-set or education resume. I would offer that it seems the risks associated with staying are more manageable and "hedgeable" than the risks associated with moving to an uncertain employment environment. (He has no way to "employ" himself, whereas his efforts to construct barriers and protection in situ are more under his control.)

Personally, I hope he moves. If he stays, however, he's going to need our ongoing support to assist his wall-building. I'll be here, if needed, to pass him a brick.

You pays your money, places your bets, and the wheel spins. No one can guarantee a winner every time.

You missed the point. My analogy is about playing chicken. I don't play chicken and that is what my analogy means. If I got hit playing chicken, I believe I would get my [censored] out of the road, don't you?

Kgaa and his wife got hit playing chicken with their marriage.

Kgaa is simply proposing that his wife become a better chicken player ["she has great boundaries now!"] because he is in denial - rather than getting out of the road.

The risk/rewards in this situation are much, much greater than getting hit by a car. Being the victim of an affair is the absolute worst thing that can happen to someone.


We should support him by persuading him to follow Dr Harley's advice, not try to help him make excuses to ignore it. That is NOT supportive.

I won't support him in doing the wrong thing, but I will support him in taking the appropriate actions, which is to MOVE. Kgaa knows this is the right thing to do but he is getting cold feet because it is difficult. Well, recovering from an affair is very difficult. You don't skip important steps just because they are difficult. Just like Harley suggests, when someone refuses to follow his program, you don't move onto the next step until they do.


Since they live so close in proximity to the OM's parents and in such a small community, I view this the same as a WS who works in the same building with her OM. It has the same impact. And since the OM is so close, his WW has the opportunity to resume the affair with ease.

okok, one more post and then it really, really will be my last one!!

When one can't ensure no contact, they need to move. That is standard Marriage Builders advice. Kgaa told Dr Harley he was going to move and he was strongly in favor of this. Here are some of Kgaa's quotes, which explain why he needs to move:




The condition that led to the affair was moving into a new home that was within a mile of the OM's parent's home. That is HOW the affair began.

That condition has not changed..........

Dr Harley addressed this in this radio clip with KGaa and his foggy wife and pointed out his WW's fog in her "belief" that she won't resume contact. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=4081#
and here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=4082#

Arguing with an analogy is not the same as arguing the facts with facts.

I am in no way indicating that relocating is not the BEST option for the healing and recovery...I can also say that it will reduce triggers and unwanted sightings that cant be controlled. Just to clarify how this started. ww and Om say oneanother at a grocery store which in fact is on the other side of town. Contact then made via FB and then phone calls exchanged until A progressed. During A they met various places that were random. The chances now are as good or bad as any for them to cross paths. WW is never alone and if not with me one of the kids r there. W is fine with all that.During A wife and Om made it a point to keep in touch and meet. YES if my wife was alone and saw OM and chose not to walk out of the place things could go bad. Moving would eliminate this chance. My W knows if she even spoke to OM it is over! We r doing all we can to relocate because we want the best life possible for us and our family. You need money and to have money you need jobs....we r trying but in the meantime need to keep our marriage together as this happens.

we want the best life possible for us and our family. You need money and to have money you need jobs....we r trying but in the meantime need to keep our marriage together as this happens.

Which is exactly what I spoke to. I have heard Dr. Harley on one or more of his broadcasts voice the same general rationale, again, intensified by the presence of children.

I'll even go further. (Why not, I haven't created a firestorm in a while.) I would suggest, based on much empirical evidence here and on other sites, that the WORST situation would be for FWW to be well employed in the new locale, with the FBH unemployed or underemployed. The concatenation of "The traditional breadwinner ain't winning any bread," and "He had to leave his previous good job because of her affair," would put large stresses on any marriage - one already burdened with healing from her affair itself would be...messy.

Gotta go now....I have three games to do!

Kgaa, I haven't read the entire thread but I did read the last few pages and listened to the radio clips.

I have to agree with some of the posters (and even Dr Harley) that you two don't seem to completely "get" the addictive nature of affairs. Honestly, I had chills when I was listening to some of the things that your W was saying because they were the EXACT same things my ex was saying to me in recovery. "I am happy in our marriage now." "I don't ever want to put our family thru this again." "I won't do this again" etc

The point is that she isn't in the position to "test" her willpower AT ALL. Period. This is proof of a wayward that "gets" it. Anything less is a red flag.


Your W "knowing" that if she talks to OM again it will be "over!" doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't. Your mindset needs to be "If W sees OM at the market or on the street, there is a good chance the affair will reignite" and "Every time one of us is triggered by driving by OM's parents' street, it is a setback for our recovery."

If you were thinking in these terms, you wouldn't for one minute think that you could possibly recover with OM and his parents living closeby...

I recently read over some of the previous posts I made and some of the replies. We are in the process of relocating. Potential job offer today and sign is in the yard. This is ALL extremly tough on everyone close to wife and I, but we both are willing to take the steps nessasary to not only have our marriage survive, but actually recover. From previous posts I don't beleive that in the meantime my wifes boundries will save a rekindle alone, but I do beleive it is a complete combination of the damage she has witnessed, an understanding of these principles, knowing hwrswlf and that she has a weakness, avoiding communication with those of the oopisite sex, having her relationship with me improve and meet her needs and yes also boundries and strict EPs that are in place. Can I or she for that matter predict if one day he passes her and waves? No. Does she want to be placed in that situation, no...but to give someone another chance and that includes during the time it takes to uproot an entire family, you must depend on the combination of these principles to work and the mindset that your spouse will apply them in all situations. If this is not in fact true and accurate then NOBODY wojld be able to survive and at one sight of the other person would run into there arms and resume the affair.

I am not trying to suggest that MB doesnt suggest the best policy to ensure a great recovery, but I'd like those to post who are on either aide od this equation and tell me where they relocated to? How long after there A did they actual pick up and move?

I am relocating to have a fresh start, new surroundings to avoid triggers for both and less of a worry about attempted contact.

It has been a little while since I've posted here. I feel that I am at a critical point in Recovery and in my family life. As many have read my wife and I are trying to move forward with our marriage after her recent A of approx. 6 months.

It has been VERY trying for all especially me. As you may have read I was unfaithful also at the onset of our marriage over 15 yers ago, and things were going ok, so I thought when wife's A was discovered. After reading a ton on this forum as well as many of Dr. H books I found that many things were missing from our marriage but the A is inexcusable to say it nicely.

Up to today.....wife has went through all steps up to this point and has agreed on relocation. This is where it gets tough...I thought I would list the Pro's and Con's and hope to get everyone's opinion at the end....

Pro's

The OM's parents live only a mile or so south of our residence. The OM lives on the other side of town and in the past I can't say I ever saw him in the area. OM work requires frequent travel to a city about two hours from here. OM has a office in both locations but is always traveling out of the area. Moving would ensure no future sightings of this OM as well as any family members.

Triggers would be eliminated as a result of the affair.

All these things would virtually eliminate the chance for this affair to rekindle.

Cons

Jobs: I recently starters new job in career I have been in for 16 years. It is a government job with a set pension. I took a salary cut to begin this job and in 6 months will finally be back to a livable wage. Wife has good job in career and has been with same employer for over 10 years. We recently built a new home and are barley making ends meet living pay check to pay check. Wife has received several job offers out of town. I have applied and received none. Moving would require her to be the sole breadwinner in our marriage. Are discussing going and checking out one of the areas we've considered moving too. Don't even have the money for airfare...have to take out a loan to get it done.

Daughter is in her eleventh grade year of high school. She also is finishing up her religious education studies. Both are live long schools and church. Also in this economy was just able to land here first job which is not easy at 16.

Two other daughters are also entrenched in there schools here since born.

Currently only have one vehicle in a family of 5. I am provided a vehicle from my employer but is only for travel to and from work. This would be gone as well.

House which was newly built a year ago which we are lucky to have equity in is in a safe area and serves our kids well.

I feel that my wife and I spent a life time creating this environment for them, and yes all of it was destroyed in a matter of less than six months. I am not afraid to move, sign is in the front yard For Sale By Owner..and am willing to do what I reasonably can to make it happen.

I am broke, no job found yet out of state, putting all of our time into job hunting, house and school hunting, which leaves very little time for my marriage and our kids who don't deserve this upside down life.

I know that affairs have rekindled when you don't move but I also know that if I don't play my card right I could be out of a career, kids in less than adaquet schools, a house that we might not even qualify to by based on income levels....ect....

I know a divorce costs money also. To date all EPs remain in place and we basically don't do anything accept work come home and be together. Ya I guess if wife wanted to she could be speaking with OM on some super secret email account or going to a land phone that I can't monitor, but I have yet to see on here how that is resolved. I know Polygraph every year....she's agreed to it....just for that simple question..have you talked with him at all since the A ended

Any insight would help. Still aching from the A and have much more on my plate now.....

You are fishing for a different answer because you didn't like the answer you got from Dr Harley and other seasoned, experienced posters on this board.

The answer will not change and there is no reason to waste our time debating something that is already settled.

If you don't want to move, don't move. You don't have to take Dr Harley's advice. You just have to be willing to accept the outcome. There is no more "insight" to be given. You don't need our approval to reject Dr Harley's advice. Just reject it and move on.

On second thought let me give you this insight: if you spent this much time and effort looking for solutions instead of reasons why you can't do this, you would probably already have a plan in place.

I would focus on finding solutions if I were you. Hundreds of people have moved. It is never convenient and it is never easy. But it is much easier than experiencing a repeat affair and a divorce.

Once again, you don't have to do a damn thing. It is your life, not ours. My marriage is happy and recovered.


It is more likely to happen if she is continually triggered by the close presence of the OM. That is what you are not getting. You don't get it.

And it will be much easier to go see him if she lives close by. None of that will be a factor if you move. Is the alcoholic more likely to drink again if he is in the bar looking at the beer or if he is away from the bar? Just think on that.

I see the point clearly, I was more interested in the real life feasibility of actually making the relocation happen. If a couple that was having " bad times" in there marriage that did not involve an affair posted here and was in my same circumstances I think the response would be don't move because ur putting to much stress on your relationship and that of your kids...my wife caused this future uncertainty in our life and the health of our marriage...I had things to work on as well in our marriage pre affair but would have made much more progress without an affair and a move, the kids are suffering either way and at times I feel that at least they deserve what's left of there life as they new it...friends, familiar schools a family support system ect....this theory kinda contradicts the exposure angle....exposure serves the purpose for those that were betrayed...me and the kids....not sure how supportive those close to ya can be 2000 miles away....I do see the upside to moving...just seems selfish in a way..kids life is already upside down but they have there surroundings to hold onto...

IT's more important for your kids to have an intact family with 2 parents who are married. Your kids can get new friends and schools, they can't replace the security of your marriage. Divorce is the absolute worst thing that can happen to them, not the loss of a friend or a school.

I understand your kids are suffering, but that is a result of your wife's affair. The whole family pays in some way.

But you aren't a couple having "bad times" that didn't involve an affair. This is a whole different animal that you're dealing with, KG. It's much bigger and dangerous than that. Yes, she did. That's a fact that you have to deal with as a family. Exposure is intended to aid in ending the affair. Sadly, the fallout is dealt with by the entire family. Give them their family to hold on to. They will possibly resent a change. But they will want their family to stay together.

As days progress I feel as if I and we are speeding much less time on our marriage and our whole life revolves around a relocation that was NOT in the plans.

Today was another job turn down for me. I will NOT move with no future employment.

In the real world with a family of 5, there needs to be two incomes. I will not pretend that in some perfect world, when a husband or wife is unfaithful your life can just uproot and relocate to another state just like that.

Some on here may call it an excuse or trying to get the support from those who know better, but bills need paid, my kids need a roof over there head and a support system going through all of this BS in there life now.

My thought right now. Go ahead, make contact with the POSOM again and I am gone. It may not be a threat to her or even keep her from some uncontrollable pressure, but the fact remains, it would be done and I would still have a roof over my head and the kids would still have a life that is intact.

Drug addicts and alcoholics don't become sober because they eliminated all the booze and drugs off the face of the earth. They admit to their addiction and don't place themselves in a position to be tempted to be faced with an impossible situation to get out of.

I move now with no job, no family support, no way to make the bills EXCEPT being totally more or less dependent on my WW income to support me, seems like a sure disaster in the making.

Now if some may be able to provide there insight how they protected there marriage remaining in the same location. As a previous poster stated many have worked remaining as is.

The OM parents living close by doesn't matter much to me. I've never seen him drive by and if I would I'd be sure to communicate in my own special way.

Wife agreed to a post-nip so I don't loose my $&@;? should she make a poor choice. Also EPs are in place and she must live a different life now. Ya it's kinda like being tied down in a sense but as Dr. H says it should be that way anyway.

I know a friend that was a total crack addict. Saw her issue, went to rehab, returned to medical school, and is now a practicing doctor. Well doctors are around a lot of meds and could always be tempted to relapse. Well she was committed to change and is good today.

I don't want to argue or debate the procedures of MB because I firmly believe all steps are in the best interest of saving a marriage.

So...I can't move until employment is found for me out of state. What advise can u provide to best recover if in fact I must stay put in my home town. I hear some already...it's not going to work....I told you so...ect....

Is there anyone one here thatbhad a successful recovery and remained in the same town as there affair partner?..

If not the rule should be...a relocation may be required.....a relocation IS required or you are domed.