My answer has two things going for it:

1) You're not implying that her prior plans should change.
2) You've subtly moved beyond "if" to merely a consideration of "when".

As for your idea:

I am sure <friend> wouldnt mind us going out...

Are you kidding?

ok so what about saying "oh ok then you hadnt mentioned saturday to me, i have managed to reschedule the arrangements for friday night instead now :)"

that way she would need to come up with another excuse as to why she couldnt do friday

It's not that things look good or bad. Stay focused on the big picture, long term.

You are very lucky indiegirl is taking you by the hand step by step.

You are in a war/battle that's liike a chess game. Just because you move one piece does not mean you will win. The game is still on.

What indiegirl is doing is showing how to make your next move without having to lose a piece, leave yourself open to being checked.

"If it doesnt come up between now and tomorrow, just mention to her pleasantly that the cab will be there at x time. Then skoot before she can answer."

Is perfect because indiegirl has you putting the WW back on the defensive again. You avoid a confrontation. WW can't get into a fight with you. Using the fight as an excuse justifying her not wanting to go on date with you even if you were the last BH on earth.

Indiegirl has with this strategy taking the power back from WW.

Women are very devious. They are better at it then us. I hope for your sake that indiegirl is better then your WW.

the road, see previous posts the reply has come through and not sure how to repsond to it? i think indie is fantastic in the way she is helping me and cant thank her enough

my current proposed repsonse is "oh ok then you hadnt mentioned saturday to me, i have managed to reschedule the arrangements for friday night instead now :)"

that way she would need to come up with another excuse as to why she couldnt do friday

I would use NGs phrasing....

You've already made your offer. It's her call now. NGs phrasing keeps the offer open.

That's all Plan A is, really. An offering with open hands.




Lucky for us waywards say everything right on script and are very predictable.

I just saw this post after I submitted mine.

First don't panic. Meaning you do not and should not respond right now. The way your WW let you stew waiting for a response and wonder what it would say.

Time for you to let her sit and wait. It's Wednesday morning. This evening is the minimum time to wait before you respond. After all this is about Saturday night not Thursday.

Wait and she what advice you get before you respond to WW.

thanks indie

Well Saturday night defo out and she said some other friend (female) has invited her round for wine on Friday night. She also said she doesn't want to go right now basically I don't want to go out alone with you. She did say about us going out tonight with our son but that's not the point.

Basically there is UA time no matter what I suggest etc, I know without UA I can't even begin to fulfil EN's right now, i feel hopeless she is just basically doing her own things all independent behaviour I only find out if our son tells me as she won't communicate with me

You can't fulfill ENs in Plan A anyway. Thats why it doesnt matter if she says no. That's why you just shrug James Bond style.

If UA time was critical we'd tell you to make it happen. It isn't. It's nice but remember many people Plan A from another country!

It's all about your OFFER. You're trying to sell something here.

If you were selling a house over the phone and you listed the credentials, the person would have a pretty good idea what's there without seeing it.

The fact she isnt ready to see it, or experience it, doesnt mean she hasn't heard the offer.

This is why the plans are both so linked to each other.

In Plan A you are basically selling something great to someone who absolutely doesn't want it.

In Plan B, you create the conditions for them to want it.

In Plan B (or maybe before, who knows?) she may decide she misses all the stuff you do for her. When that happens she may become a buyer.

Until then, in Plan A you have a hostile audience who wont allow you to make needs. Who doesnt want the sale. Your plan is not to make them do what they dont to, but to create a memorable offer in case they ever change their mind about needing that house.

This is very true, Dave.

Your W does not want to feel like your happiness depends on her right now. This is called neediness. You may think you are not being needy right now but that doesn't matter.
What matters is how SHE perceives it.

You obviously can�t control her. Best you can do is offer things and it is up to her to accept or deny. Yes, this is hard when you want so bad to have a lot of UA time. Most likely, this isn�t going to happen right now.

Want to do something??? Cool. Don�t want to? That is cool too.

Being loving, avoiding LB�s and having boundaries is a fantastic mindset.

You have things to do. You have places to go. You would love her to also go but that doesn�t affect whether you do your things or not. If she sees you as TOO available all the time, that is a big turnoff.

Indie you put things so well and calm me down

"Okay, I understand. I'll be taking our son out to dinner Saturday night instead. We could use some 'guy' time."

NG nice IDE but our son is going away on Friday and not back till Sunday night hence why Friday n Saturday were perfect changes to get out alone with worrying about sitters or WW using him as a sort of shield

Have said the arrangements for Friday night still stand and to let her think about it, so far no response

Well hopefully i get the A+ today ordered some flowers to be delivered to her work again with a not them saying "just becuase x" going to be interested to see how she reacts and what she says to these as there is nothing on them saying they are from me.

I am in the office today so if she txts me or when i get home tonight how would be the best to respond to her if she says something about the flowers? or do i even not admit to sending them?

Of course you take credit for the flowers Dave. Blimey.

The whole point of Plan A is to do stuff, offer stuff, and rack up the credit.

Do you need more sleep?

Sorry moment of madness lol

Well she got the flowers but not said a thing about them to me at all, surely she must know they came from me even though my name wasn't on them

I guess American is not your first language, my friend.

In French: Aucunes Esp�rances�!
In Spanish: �Ningunas Esperanzas!
In Italian: Nessuna Aspettative!
In German: Keine Erwartungen!
In Dutch: Geen Verwachtingen!
In Polish: Brak oczekiwah;!
In Norwegian: Ingen Forventninger�!
In Swedish: Inga F�rv�ntan!
In Hungarian: Az elv�r�sok!
In Portugese: Nenhumas Expectativas!

Lol I know no expectations but just got back from councilling session and she has said she wants me to stop flowers and also Facebook/txt messages unless relevant or important ones. So least I know now, we are starting to negotiation things now between us about what is and isn't acceptable also she is prepared to make a firm commitment to 6months of working on things together.

Right now she said everything feels way too much and fake and out of a text book and I need to back off a little bit so that it doesn't feel as fake and more natural. She feels very scared n frightened and right now doesn't know what she wants whether to recover or separate but my constant actions whilst giving her hope have been pushing her away and causing her to keep her defendes up rather than show her feelings

It doesn't matter what her fears or her reactions are!!!

A WS will always have some nutso reason why they can't allow you to meet their needs

Flowers scare me!
If I sleep near you I might get nits!
You just selfishly want to love me selflessly for your own gain!
I can't possibly allow flirty texts from my husband!!!!

And then she'll show your her knickers (sorry panties) and laugh at your jokes and stroke your arm.

Etc.

Waywards are freaking crazy. That IS something you should expect.

(NG you beat me to it!!! How long did all typing and translating take you ?!!)