I thought you said it was 10-01-12 call?

You aren't Dave?

brainhurts, sorry yes that was my original question but joyce got the question mixed up in thinking my with had an affair three years ago instead of the fact it was me. I emailed joyce again and she said they had re-adressed my question on 4/10/12 which is what i am lookin\listening for.

ok i listen to the program and summize their advice was as follows:

They need to really know what is keeping her from making our marriage work, and really would like her to email the show as well (i really doubt she would do this )

The recognize that i need ot learn to calm down in the face from frustration as even minor changes on my part like raised voice\body language etc could set her back and cause the fear in her.

Also she need to explain and give speicifc as to why she doesnt feel safe so that i actually know and can then work on it. They felt that i was probably also coming across as been very intense and most likely becuase i did a job that was very problem-solving orientate (so true been a software developer) and that when i come home from work the intencity is there in my voice\body langauge as well.

That's very interesting. Are you going to ask her to listen to the show or email them? Was it on yesterday? I think I missed it.

Indie it was on yesterday's show at the end, I would love her to listen and/or email them but that she will just say it is pressure and she will do war she likes I can't control her etc etc she will make her own decisions

Our wedding anniversary is next Tuesday and she told me last night that she doesn't want to acknowledge it or celebrate it or acknowledge we are stil married. This has crushed me to zero now her saying n telling me this, it feels like the final nail in the coffin

Interesting... it's very familiar to a poster we had here a while back named hurtagainbydavid whose husband had an affair and then talked her into a 3-way... she had a thread "Is a threesome cheating if it's POJA'd."


Any relation here, Dave?

nope and cant say i have seen that thread do you have a link to it ?

NVM - I did some digging, and I had it backwards. In that situation it was the wife who had the initial affair, and then the BH talked her into having a threesome with another man...

Ack, and now I can't remember which letter it was where a husband and wife got into swinging and the wife got hung up on the lifestyle... it was one of the Q&A, but I can't find it right now.

Bleargh.

let me know if you find anything as i am always open to read.

Well i have been and had a session with the counciller this morning after last nights conversation with my wife and what she said to me along with how crushed and depressed i felt.

She told me that they had talked about this in her solo session as well and asked me what she had said and what i had heard. After i told her she said to me that the most important part i hadnt actually heard and understand. What my wife was saying is that right now there is nothing to be happy or celebrate about our marriage and that my wife does not want to acknowledge the date. She said that she would acknowledge and celebrate it in the future, this bit was the important bit. The counciller said what she was trying to tell me was that she wants to work on our marriage and turn it into something that we both want, but i hadnt actaully heard n processed this bit.

The counciller said that in her session with wife my wife had actually said about working on the real issues to try and create a marriage that we both want. The counciller said our last solo sessions were a turning point and moved into the next stage of starting recovery and that is what is going to form the basis of our next joint session and negotiating. I said we need to stop skirting around the issues and actaully start talking about the real issues, what my wife feels they have been and how we can change. This is when the counciller said this is what my wife said in her solo session and until that point the counciller had just been trying to get is to coexist to that point rather than fall apart.

So whilst my wife hasnt and doesnt feel she can come out verbally to me and say that she wants to address past issues and work out how we can solve them, so has said this to the counciller. I said to the counciller that whilst i know some of the issues i dont know them all or the extent of them and at the moment i feel like i am stumbling in the dark. We also talked about how i want a marriage where we can POJA everything and the counciller agreed and said this is the purpose of the next session and what my wife has now got the to stage of.

So whilst i still feel subdued and sad about our anniversary i know at least know that my wife is wanting to work on our marriage together, to recognize the issues and how things can change along with negotiating our needs along with how our marriage should be. This is the start of a long process but as i agreed with the counciller for the first time i now and feel like me and the wife have stood on the same path and starting to take steps together.

Dave. You can also schedule a phone call to the show. I think you will get better advice if you have a dialog with them because they will be better able to understand your situation. They are also very good at getting reluctant spouses on board. Make sure to include that in your talk.

poker face thanks for the advice and certainly something for me to consider although a call to the show from the UK could end up been pretty expensive as well, but i am not discounting it. If you read my previous post regarding my councilling session today i think things are starting to change according to the counciller. She has said that my wife has started to talk about facing the real underlying issues for me to know and deal with (which is what Dr H said in his response). Our next session will be about negotiating\POJA the things we both want\need from each other and setting up a marriage that we both want for the future.

Another thing the counsiller did mention in my session this morning is after talking to us both she can see how our marriage has been like a set of scales where it was tipped one way before and during my affair and then tipped to the opposite side towards the end of my affair and since them. That we both recognize this and now we have to find the balance in the middle where we can both meet each others needs and work together as a COUPLE and a TEAM and not tipping back in either direction.

This is certainly something i have realised both from the councilling session, the books i have read and this site as well and is certainly the way i want our marriage to become.

You can buy prepaid international phone cards with great rates. Also, I know that I can sign up for special international rates with my cell phone company. My husband makes many calls to the UK on his cell without breaking the bank.

Surely getting great advice from the man who wrote the book would be well worth the cost. It is killing me to see your wife so closed and I think there is something going on here that is being missed. Is she planning on living as roommates for the rest of her life? Something just seems off.

Yes for me it would be worth the cost and i am fully on board with the MB process. It kills me as well to see her so closed and i have been open and honest with everything i written.

it feels more like roommates right now but as the counciller said he both our solo sessions earlier this week she feels the point has been reached for us both where are moving to the next stage. My wife is now starting to talk about us learning from past issues and how these can be changed for the future. The next session like i have said is going to be both of us POJA'ing things that we both want n need from each other to start to rebuild a NEW marriage. The counciller said this is going to be a long process but now WE are BOTH on the same path moving forward.

So this is a huge step from how and where things have been for the last few months. Hopefully as we take the first little baby steps these will start to become bigger steps as we meet each others needs going forwards.

I share others' concerns, Dave. It's always off when people have a nameless complaint. So I agree with your counsellor when she says that the next session should explore *WHAT* it is she wants from you. And all this silly talk of I don�t want to 'acknowledge being married' but I may do someday.... It all has a very unnerving ring to it. She shouldn�t be this foggy after so long with no contact.

Most of us are able to say: "I want x, can you do Y for me please", only the foggy struggle to say what they want specifically. And making vague future promises of celebrating a marriage while not wanting to today is the hallmark of the foggy.

I'd concur with others who say to get on the phone with Dr Harley if you can at all. Then in your next counselling session I'd expect to get specific instructions on what exactly is your wife's problem. As an MB spouse who welcomes complaints, of course.

If your counsellor cant get that, I'd expect her to explain why not and what the plan of action is.

I agree and this is the same thing Dr H said as well, i am just guessing that the fear\scared\frightened feelings inside her is what has taken it this long to get to this point but at least she has got to this point now.

The counciller has already said that in our next session we are going to start bringing out what the real problems are and how things can change and how we both want them to change. I said to the counciller that it feels like for way too long we have been two individuals rather than a COUPLE and a TEAM. That going forward i want us to be a COUPLE and TEAM and doing things for each other and together and she said that is exactly what my wife wants as well but she is too frightened to come out and say it verbally to me. I also said i dont want to go on do things and making decision on my own at all i want my wife to be involved and her feelings\opionons meam a lot.

I also wrote a letter i wanted to give my wife a few days ago, but after speaking to the counciller she asked me not to and take it with me today. So i took it and read it out to the counciller in floods of tears, the counciller understood everything that i was saying in the letter but felt my wife wouldnt actaully hear the message that i was saying. So she has asked me to take it to the next couple session so that i can either read it to her or give it to her and that the counciller can help her interept what i am actually saying. Did you want me to type it up on here so you can read it ?

Yeah I would. Going by your counsellors reaction, you've spoken emotionally from your heart instead of logically playing hers.

I did the same with my Plan B letter and the vets here tweaked it.

The foggy only hear very specific things

My letter is certainly emotional n from my hear not sure what you mean by instead of logical laying hers indie? It is good the counciller has heard n understands it and is going to support me reading it to my wife and also get my wife to be able to explain what she heard and if needed have the counciller fill in the blanks

She's foggy because her entire mind is locked into ME ME ME mode.

So, if you are talking about how you feel, what you want etc... She simply won't hear you.

The foggy and withdrawn can't even hear YOU they can only hear ME ME ME.

So logically, the Plan Aer can't talk a whole lot about themselves and their feelings.

If they're logical, they will still try to get their message across, but they will boil it down into snappy catchphrases. Like advertisers trying to get the attention of ADHD kids.

And they will sweeten the pot by talking about some things they KNOW they will want to listen to.

Be smart about it.