I really do not have anywhere else to go. If my moms hometown were destroyed tomorrow I would have no choice but to force BH to let me move back in. My most realistic current options are
1. Stay at my moms house while he makes a decision --this seems to be what BH wants as of our last conversation
2. Show up with a bag at our home and say I have the legal right to live here until the paperwork is finalized. I feel that the only way we can possibly work through this is if we are together living in the same household. If you are unsure if you want me here or not I can give the tenants notice today but we will be living together and working on our issues for the next 45 days and if at that point you feel our marriage is not worth saving I will move to our other property.

Personally I would lean towards option 2 but I don't know if that is being selfish and disrespectful of his wishes, yet at the same time everything I have read here says we need to be together to have a chance at reconciliation

I desperately want to talk to him about everything I have read here but that too would be going against his request to be left alone

FM, I agree with NG that it is not a good idea to go barging in demanding your legal rights. He is already alarmed at your selfish behavior and that would only serve to underscore those fears.

I would try another approach. I would show up with your suitcase [leave it in the car] and a plan for recovery in hand. Show her your plan for recovery and what you plan to do to make just compensation to him. Tell him you have been reading on Marriage Builders non stop and you now have a plan. Tell him that in order to recover your marriage, Dr Harley recommends that you live together. Ask him if you can move back in. Tell him how much you miss him and want to be with him.

I think part of your plan should be to get rid of the animals NOW and completely delete your facebook since those seem to be things that bother him terribly. If your animals make him unhappy, then you should do everything possible to remove such things NOW, rather than later. His happiness is certainly more important than those chinchillas, so the tapering method is not going to help. He was probably thinking he had to do it that way [deal with LESS unhappiness] to avoid resentment on your part. Assure him you would resent losing him and will gladly give up the animals.

If you do this, we could help you throw together your plan.

Melody,
I agree completely that I would rather discuss a plan with him before barging in. My immediate concern is that I want to get the ball rolling now but given the fact that it was just yesterday he told me he wanted time on his own without me contacting him, would it be disrespectful to contact him now?
So much of me is saying I should send him an email letting him know that I spent hours and hours on the site he sent me and everything on there says that we need to be together if we want to work on it. I would gladly pack a bag and do the two hour drive right now if I could somehow know that he wouldn't see it as a sign of selfishness and disregard for his wish to be alone. Would it be wrong to email him with the plan despite his request for alone time?

I would go there in person, unannounced, and show him your plan. That shows him initiative. Just sending him an email doesn't show initiative.

as a BS, i can tell you this is part of what is scaring your BH. you can say "it'll never happen again" until you're blue in the face, but we all KNOW that's not true. it happened once (doesn't matter who the OM was). it CAN happen again. as dr harley says, *everyone* is wired to commit adultery. and you've already proven your ability.

fluffymouse, this is not to condemn you. your BH has demonstrated, by sending you the link to MB, that recovery is well within the scope of possibility. but the longer you delay in taking ACTION, the more time your BH has to realise he can live without you. we WANT you to be able to recover your M. please don't just listen, but ACT on the advice and post what steps you are taking.

there is nothing more offputting to a BS than a wayward who is hedging their bets. it disgusts them. and disgust leads to withdrawal. you can guess where withdrawal leads. i urge you to undertake the steps outlined by GO, HPB, NG, ML and PEP TODAY.

and stop pushing your BH to take you back. definitely don't ask him to "trust" you. both of these things only illustrate, to the BS, that you are dangerous. you want to look, and be, SAFE for the BS to approach and consider. working on your side of the street is how you do this, whether you are in the home or not. after all, the best thing you can do for your BH, when he finally is ready to speak to you the next time, is demonstrate what you HAVE DONE. not what you *will* do.

fluffy, you don't know when your BH might want to see/speak with you again. it could be a day, a week, an hour. your BH is on the scariest roller coaster ride of his life, and his feelings will change by the MINUTE. when he is feeling like it's the end, that's OK. nothing at this point is set in stone, so do what you can to salvage the situation.

edit: i agree with mel - after you have DONE some affair-proofing, go to your H.

Below is a portion of an email that I received from BH. Where do I go from here? I feel so hopeless.


I've been reading articles as well and so far they've opened my eyes with all the issues that I have with you and the marriage. I agree that living together would be what is needed to start reconciliation in a situation like this, however my gut feeling is that I shouldn't be with you anymore.

I truly believe you have a narcissistic personality. You're completely selfish and think you're better than everybody else and have no empathy for anyone. I'm not saying that to be hurtful but it's what everything over the last 10 + years has shown me. I do not whole heartedly believe you are capable of changing. Talk is cheap, what I need to see are actions.

I am taking this time to do some soul searching on my own. I have serious doubts that I can continue being with you. The hurt I feel is far to great and I deserve so much better than you.

don't despair, fm. what you are seeing here is his pain. the part i've highlighted is the most important bit. it shows an opportunity for you.

How do I show acts when His wish is that i not see or talk to him? As I understand it, the affair is not the issue that he is focusing on in deciding whether or not to reconcile, it is more the other things he mentioned. I didn't realize it at the time but I had been treating him very poorly, belittling him in front of our families, and made several independent decisions, including a couple by large ones. The affair is what caused him to reevaluate everything and lose the one thing that he was holding on to- the thought that "our relationship isnt great but at least she never cheated on me" I have asked him to point out when I am doing these things because I really don't notice it and I am trying to make a point to realize it but how do I show him I am not being selfish if I am not in contact with him? How do I show him I can treat him well at home and build him up rather than tear him down in public if we are not ever together? How do I show him I value his opinion and am committed to the POJA if the only decision to be made is whether or not he wants to talk to me?

First you need to change your contact info and move closer to your BS. GET RID OF FACEBOOK AND ANY OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA! IMHO there is no wiggle room with those actions. I read your whole thread and you seem to ignore all advice given. Or counter with buts and other excuses. Hotels are expensive?! You didn't think of that when you were rolling around with the OM. money lost from your business? Wasn't a problem with the other OM saying sweet nothing's in your ear via email! Take the advice and DO! I bet your BH will notice the change of your number and your living arrangements.

fm,

was your bh cheated on in prior relationships?

God Bless
Gamma

Tranquil dark
After reading some of the reason that brought you here, I would be particularly interested in your thoughts about the idea of moving back home withouth his blessing. I saw you are in pretty much the opposite situation as I am, you were the one that was betrayed and she was the one who didnt want to try whereas I am the one who did the betraying and he is the one that is unsure if he wants to try. The issues he is currently struggling with run much deeper than the affair, my personality, how I have treated him in the past. Would my forcing him to live with me and watch me try to be a better person be fighting for us or another act of disrespect towards him?

Gamma,
Yes. I did not know this until after dday

Well, you show patience.

Patience is not what you showed when you made major decisions without him.
Patience is not what you showed when you belittled him in the presence of others in lieu of resolving your issues with him 1-on-1.
Patience is not what you showed when you chose the quick-fix attention rush of an ex-BF over the spadework that it takes to build a mutually satisfying marriage.

Patience is something you owe him now. Maybe he's not ready today to let you close enough to show him any positive changes. So. How do you know what tomorrow will bring? What if 2 days from now, or two weeks from now, he asks you to come over, because he wants to cautiously feel out whether it's safe to give you another try? And what if that happens, and you have nothing to show him -- no actions to show -- because instead of taking those actions that are within your power, you'll have spent the time between now & then wringing your hands, paralyzed by fear, self-pity & uncertainty?

I do understand -- you want to know how this could possibly work, and you want to know now. I was in your shoes once myself, 4 years ago this very week! I thought I'd irreparably ruined my marriage, my life! I thought there was no way anything I did could ever be good enough to fix the mess I'd made of everything. Well, newsflash: There is no certainty in your life anymore, at least not for the forseeable future. That's in the past, whether you stay married or whether you don't. You hopped off the ol' Certainty Train when you hopped onto your ex. I'm sorry. So going foward, either you can go into 'self-pity' mode in the face of the uncertainty, or you can act resolutely to put yourself in best position to save this marriage to the man who once thought enough of you to take your ring on his finger -- and you can carry on, even while accepting that because of your actions & slip-ups, there are no guarantees it will work out that way. You resolve to BE the woman he though you were when you took his ring, and quit worrying about whether he'll notice. If he notices, he notices. And even if he doesn't, you will still be a much better person for your efforts & for the things you will learn while making them.

He said this to you: Not what he needed to see, but rather, what he needs to see. So you're down a dozen runs, and you've got 2 outs in the last inning, but honey, you're still batting. Don't you even think of quitting on him when he hasn't yet quit on you.

You can't do it all at once. You'll drive yourself nuts if you try. Make a list. Go do the things you CAN do, one by one. Kill the FB account. Change your numbers & email addresses to ones that only your husband knows, and that OM doesn't. Get yourself geographically nearer to him. Read HerPapaBear's thread on "Extraordinary Precautions" here http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...+precautions&Search=true#Post2374198 , including his "category #1" and "category #2", and apply as many of them in your own life as you possibly can, even if you're not yet back at home.

Prayers are being raised for both you & him, FluffyMouse. And I believe God has laid some tools at your feet. You've got to use 'em, girl. People can change. I did. You can.

Gloveoil
Thank you for your prayers and your advice. I am committed to hanging in there for as long as it takes .
In the meantime, do you have any suggestions for resources to help me work on my personal issues with selfishness and lack of empathy since these have been two big issues of his.
Another big problem he has is that he was raised in a Christian household and God was never a part of my life. He blames me for not going to church and says he should have never married a non Christian. We have attended church together 5 times since dday and the pastor has come to our house to counsel us on working through it. I emailed the pastor about starting confirmation classes and am awaiting a reply since this is something BH has mentioned several times in the past. Is this a step in the right direction to show him I want to change? He does not know about this yet but at least when he is ready to talk I have something that I have made an effort towards.
I am trying to move from despair to repair but I feel I am lacking so far. Him telling me that he needed time alone felt so much like him saying that he didn't want to try anymore that I have been taking them as the same thing. I know it is not healthy, I am barely eating or sleeping and I have cried so much and had so little to drink that I am dehydrated and dizzy. Reminders that by sending me here and saying things like need vs needed means there is still a chance are pretty much the only thing holding me together

When H talks about empathy I think mostly he is referring to my empathy towards strangers rather than towards him. The example he has given me several times is that we were on a plane flight overseas and a baby was crying. I turned around and shushed the parents. The crying continued and I turned around again and said be quiet. The crying continued and after realizing the parents did not speak English i said one of the few phrases I know in Spanish, which I believe roughly translates to shut up you f'n a--
A complete overreaction on my part I admit but I did not know how great an effect it was having on H's love bank since I saw it as having nothing to do with him.

I have very little face to face interaction with anyone. I run an online business from our guest bedroom and the business is 97% email contact, 3% phone contact and the only in person business related interaction is when I hand the mailman a box full of the day's outgoing orders or ups drops off a package. I am not at all social, have no close friends that are not shared with H and only a small handful of women that I speak to for about half an hour before or after Pilates class twice a week. I believe that as a product of this, I have very poor social skills and have no boundaries as far as what is or is not appropriate to say.

It is hard to know if it is the truth or what H is telling himself but he has expressed that his primary hesitation in reconciliation is not a fear that I will stray again but that I am not good for him. I am sure that if/when he decides I am worthy of a second chance all of the safeguards for an affair will play a major role but I wonder if in trying to prove that I am worthy that in addition to showing steps to affair proof the marriage I should also place a strong emphasis on how I am working to improve myself.

Well from my POV it would make me EXTREMELY upset. You give him space and be patient. Ask yourself what is the worst thing a wife could do to a husband? Give him time and do the EPs. I am an extremely angry BH so if I come off harsh I apologize but it needs to be said. You left your husband for another man who is/was a POS. then you want him back after you got dumped?! that's how he views it you made him a second choice not your first.

On the positive side your here posting and seem to be absorbing what has been said. Now is the time for ACTION! Don't do the changes for him do it for you! Better yourself and respect his right to make the choice that works for him! After all you felt that the OM was better than your BH without consulting him why should he consult you about his decisions. FOCUS on fluffy and how she can improve herself. I'm rooting for ya! God bless!

I'm not sure if it would make any difference in your response if I clarified that I was the one that ended it, not the OM. BH discovered the A and after about a week of selfishly hedging my bets I sent OM a message telling him I was going to work things out with BH and I could not speak to him again.
One of the articles brought up the subject that often separation from an AP is very difficult and causes depression or thoughts of suicide. I have found the opposite to be true in my case. Perhaps it was his actions after I told him it was over but although I did have strong feelings during the week of hedging bets, the day I told him it was over I was done with him for good. The only sadness going through my mind was over how I had hurt BH and fear that he would not take me back. Though I have not considered suicide, since d day there have been several times ( including yesterday and today) that I have considered doing something stupid that would land me in the hospital in hopes that his protective instincts would bring him back. I have to step back and remind myself that doing so would be a selfish act and cause emotional distress to him and our families and would only be a temporary solution.
i have found that all of the feelings and need for attention that had fallen from H to AP leading up to the A have gone back to H in almost an obsessive way. When he is having a positive day in regards to us I am ecstatic, when he is having a day when he doesn't know if he wants to continue trying I cry with violent sobs for hours and have thoughts of hurting myself. Since he requested time alone I have been checking my email every 5 minutes, all night to the point I have gotten maybe 5 hours sleep since I woke up Thursday morning, and starting to cry nearly every time there is no message from him. These feelings would probably be ok if this was like every other weekend since the separation and i was down there with him but as the first weekend we have not seen each other and it being at his request I'm having a hard time leaving my bed and fighting the desire to do something selfish and destructive to get his attention.

Dear friend, the pain must be terrible for you, as it must be for your BH. I would ask that you bear in mind one thing: You have hurt him enough. Doing something self-destructive would INCREASE, not RELIEVE, his pain and sense of betrayal.

You might not believe this, at this stage of your resolution, but if your BH is EVER going to heal, the greatest balm and salve for his injuries is.....you.

Just three and a half years ago, I was as lost and despairing as you seem to be. My hand was twice stayed from committing unbelievable horrors by what can only be described as intervention from a higher power. I am fortunate I paid heed, as I'm asking you to do now.

You are NOT the first remorseful WW who has been told by her BH that there was "no chance" of his taking her back. Happily, the majority of cases have shown that a BH can find the necessary strength to consider reconciliation, if the WW in question works the program, hard, tirelessly, and generously. You show signs of committing to that.

If the thoughts of self-harm are strong and persistent, do not delay, call for help. Keep posting here as well.

Lastly, you say that religion has never been a strong factor in your life. I am certainly not a liturgical resource, but I might suggest that now might be a fine time to start attending services. I'm told that there is no criticism when a guest arrives at His table, regardless of how late she is.

Dr. H also champions antidepressants as well. See your doctor about that. Also you say you ended it. That may be true but I'm sure since you betrayed his trust he doesn't believe you ended. That's what matters BH's POV.