My husband sent me a link to this site today and I have been on it for the past 7 hours trying to gather information. I just found the forum and really hope someone can offer me some help.

I cheated on my husband. Almost a year ago I started talking to my first boyfriend on Facebook. At first it was completely innocent how have you been sort of stuff. About 6 months ago it turned romantic. At the same time, for a variety of reasons all stemming back to a lack of communication, I was convinced that my husband did not care about me and was only with me out of obligation and of course I was too childish to bring this up but instead got all of the emotional support and attention that I was missing from my former boyfriend. In August, my husband went out of town and I saw my old bf in Fresno for the first time, since high school. We spent the day together but nothing physical. The online talks grew deeper and between September and October I slept with him twice. In November my husband logged into my Facebook account and read a message to discover the affair. He threw me out of the house that night.
The next day I went with my family to get my stuff. As we were packing we started discussing things. He mentioned counseling and trying to work things out so I told my bf that I couldn't talk to him while I was working on things. 6 am the next morning my husband called and told me that he didn't want to try and he called my bf and told him he could have me. After a couple more days of moving and talking, the subject of reconciliation came up again. I spent the night with my husband and we were intimate. A couple days later I stupidly replied to a message from the bf where he was talking about how scared he was and ended up messaging him for nearly an hour, then lied to my husband when he asked if I had spoken to the bf. it turns out head gotten into my Facebook account again and knew it all. After talking to my husband and letting him know I was scared that he wouldn't want me back and I would be all alone, I ended it with the boyfriend. In retaliation he sent copies of all of the messages we had exchanged to my husband. I have not spoken to the boyfriend since and will not be again regardless of what happens with my husband.
After that long background story, my question is how do I convince my husband that it is worth staying together? We spoke to a pastor and he laid a good foundation and we have been trying to work on things with me staying with him on weekends but he does not want me to move back yet and flip flops daily on whether he wants to try to work on improving what was lacking in our relationship or cutting his losses and moving on.
I love him very much and would never had done any of this if I had swallowed my pride and addressed my problems with him in the first place, how do I convince him I'm worth taking a chance again?

Sorry, I'm not clear what all the abbreviations mean. Based on my guesses
BH is my husband? To my knowledge he does not post here. Part of what is prompting me to seek more advice is that this is the first weekend since he found out that we have not been together trying to work it out. He decided that he needed some time alone and I am trying to respect his wish for me not to contact him until he lets me know he is ready to talk.
OM would be the other man? he is marrieds but he has been legally separated from his wife for nearly 4 years
Nearly everyone knows about the affair, my parents and sister, my husbands entire family including aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents, the OMs entire family including wife, parents and grandparents, several of my husbands coworkers and many of our friends though I'm not exactly sure of how far the scope of that goes but the day it happened he changed his Facebook status to single so would imagine anyone close to us
I am not sure what NC is
I have not been tested

I'm just hoping he decides he does want to continue trying.

...how do I convince my husband that it is worth staying together? We spoke to a pastor and he laid a good foundation and we have been trying to work on things with me staying with him on weekends but he does not want me to move back yet and flip flops daily on whether he wants to try to work on improving what was lacking in our relationship or cutting his losses and moving on.
I love him very much and would never had done any of this if I had swallowed my pride and addressed my problems with him in the first place, how do I convince him I'm worth taking a chance again?

...for a variety of reasons all stemming back to a lack of communication...

Thank you all for the advice. Those are all certainly steps I will look into. I think for now my big hang up is that I don't know if he wants to continue trying to rebuild or not. One day he is willing and the next he wants to end all contact with me. I understand that he has been extremely hurt by all this and doesn't know how to feel yet but the back and forth is making me feel hopeless.

... An earlier post suggested I change all phone numbers and emails the OM used to contact me. I run a ecommerce website, to change the email and phone numbers would be devastating to my business and if we can't reconcile I would not be able to support myself after that loss of income...

I think we are both concerned that if I make the sacrifice he will stay out of a sense of obligation rather than an actual desire to be with me and that isnt good for either of us.

To gloveoil
I completely understand everything you're saying and a lot of it are issues that he and I discussed. The closing of the Facebook account was one of the first and the result of that discussion was that he didn't think I should close mine because in part he did not want to close his. He is constantly checking his Facebook so he felt it would be hypocritical to do that after I closed mine.

With the pets, he proposed a solution that I enthusiastically agree to but whenever he is having doubts he brings it up as a reason not to bewith me. When he is upset he says they are more important than he is and when he is not upset he says he would feel terrible if I gave them up and then he called it off. On these two issues, I think we are both concerned that if I make the sacrifice he will stay out of a sense of obligation rather than an actual desire to be with me and that isnt good for either of us.

right now I am living 110 miles away from my husband and 3 miles from OM

On these two issues, I think we are both concerned that if I make the sacrifice he will stay out of a sense of obligation rather than an actual desire to be with me and that isnt good for either of us.

Melodylane
I raise chinchillas. Currently I have 6 large cages. He proposed that I reduce it to 4 cages and as more babies are born I sell them all, dont buy any more, and when they all die I'm done with owning chinchillas.

My husband sent me a link to this site today and I have been on it for the past 7 hours trying to gather information. I just found the forum and really hope someone can offer me some help.

I cheated on my husband. Almost a year ago I started talking to my first boyfriend on Facebook. At first it was completely innocent how have you been sort of stuff.

About 6 months ago it turned romantic.

At the same time, for a variety of reasons all stemming back to a lack of communication, I was convinced that my husband did not care about me and was only with me out of obligation

1. Sharing Common Interests.
"We just had so much in common, it was uncanny."

"She and I both enjoyed music, and we were attracted to each other."

"He was so spiritually-minded... I'd been looking for someone to share my spiritual struggles with."

"We both loved horses, and started riding together."

"We both shared a burden for the church and especially children's work."

"She was the first woman I'd ever met who liked the outdoors, even hunting and fishing -- I was fascinated!"


2. Mentally comparing with my mate.
"My husband wasn't interested much in spiritual things, but this man knew so much about the Bible."

"She was slim, attractive, and dressed sharp -- quite a difference from my wife who didn't take care of herself much at that time."

"She was so understanding and would listen to me and my hurts -- my wife was always so busy and rushed that we didn't have the time to talk.

"My husband just would never communicate -- he'd come home from work and just sit there watching TV. I finally gave up on him. Then this man came along who was worlds apart from my husband -- he was gentile, loved to talk, and would just share little things about his life with me."


3. Meeting emotional needs.
"He understood how I was feeling and offered me the empathy I was hungering for."

"She was there when I needed her."

"My ego was so starved for affirmation that I would have taken it from anyone -- I guess that's what started the whole thing."

"No one had ever really believed in me until he came along. He encouraged me, inspired me, and believed so deeply in what I could become."

"My wife was busy with the kids and not at all involved with my work. This girl admired me and treated me like I was really somebody. It felt so good."


4. Looking forward to being together.
"I used to dread going to work, but after we started our friendship, I would wake up thinking of how I would see him later that day... it seemed to make getting up easier."

"I would think of being with her the whole time I was driving to work."

"I found myself thinking of him as I got dressed each morning, wondering how he would like a certain outfit or perfume."

"I looked forward to choir practice every week because I knew he would be there."

"Every time I drove by her house I would think of her and how we'd see each other that Sunday."


5. Tinges of dishonesty with my mate.
"When my wife would ask if she was with the group I'd pretend I couldn't remember... right there I started building a wall between us."

"I would act like I was going to practice with our ensemble, but actually I was practicing a duet with him."

"Once my wife asked about her, but I denied everything, after all, we hadn't done anything wrong yet. Now I see that this was one of those exit points where I could have come clean and got off the road I was speeding down."

"Whenever we got together as couples I would act like I didn't care about him, and afterward I would even criticize him to my husband. I guess I was trying to hide my real feelings from my husband."


6. Flirting and teasing.
"I could tell from the way she looked at me. She would gaze directly into my eyes, then furtively glance down my body then back into my eyes again -- I knew then that she was interested in more than my friendship. But, I was so flattered by her interest that I couldn't escape."

"Then we started teasing each other, often with double-meaning kind of things. Sometimes we'd tease each other even when we were together as two couples. It seemed innocent enough at first, but more and more we knew it really did mean something to us."

"We would laugh and talk about how it seemed like we were "made for each other" so much. Then we'd tease each other about what kind of husband or wife the other one would have been if we'd married each other."

"He had those killer eyes. When he'd look at me in that "special way" I would just melt. It was hopeless fighting my urges -- he had me."


7. Talking about personal matters.
"We would talk about things -- not big things, just little things which he cared about, or I was worried about."

"We'd meet together for coffee before church and just talk together."

"I was having problems with my son and she seemed to understand the whole situation so much better than anyone else I talked with. I'd tell her about the most recent blow-up and she would understand so well. We just became really deep friends -- almost soul-mates. That's what's so weird about all this -- we never intended for it to go this far."

"I had lost my Dad just before we got to know each other and he had lost his mother a few years earlier. He seemed to understand exactly what I was going through and we would talk for hours about how each of us felt."

"I was so lonely since my husband died and hungry for someone to share life with. Then he began to call just because he cared. I loved hearing his caring voice at the other end of the line, even though I knew he was married."

"We spent so much time together at work that I swear she knew more about me than my wife ever did -- or even cared to know."


8. Minor yet arousing touch, squeeze, or hug.
"He never touched me for months. Then one night after working late, we were walking toward the door when he said 'You're so special, thanks for all you do..." then he turned and hugged me tenderly, just for a second. I loved how I felt for that moment so much that I began to replay it over and over again in my mind like a videotape. Now I know that I should have stopped it all right then. I never intended to ruin my family like this."

"She was always hanging around our house and was my wife's best friend. Often she would stay late to watch TV, even after my wife went to bed. She would sit beside me on the couch and I was drawn to her like the song says... like a moth to the flame."

"He would often pat me on the shoulder -- you know, in appreciation for a good job I'd done. But I knew it meant more than that."

"The first time she touched me was when we were doing registration together. We were sitting beside each other. I'd say something cute or funny and she would giggle, then under the table she'd squeeze the top of my leg with her hand. That was really exciting to me."

"Every time she shook hands with me at the door she seemed to linger, sort of holding my hand more than shaking it. No one else would notice, but I knew there was more to her touch than appeared to the eyes. She knew too."


9. Special notes or gifts.
"He would write these little encouraging notes and leave them in my desk, pocketbook, or taped to my computer. They didn't say anything which could be traced. If anyone found them they wouldn't suspect anything. But we both knew what was going on, we just didn't want to stop yet."

"I would sometimes call him and leave a short message on his answering machine. He would leave little notes in my Bible."

"He would buy me a little gift -- not that expensive, but it always showed he had taken extra thought to get exactly what I liked. Of course everyone else thought he was just being a good boss."

"She started leaving unsigned notes to me in my desk sharing her feelings for me. It scared me at first, because I thought someone would find one. But after a while I found myself looking forward to the next one, even though I knew the risk."


10. Inventing excuses to call or meet.
"I started figuring out ways I could drop off something at her house when her husband was gone. He and I knew each other and I would always return borrowed tools in the afternoon when I knew she'd be there alone."

"I would wait until the end of the workday then I'd call him just before closing time about something I'd made up as a 'business question' and we'd talk."

"The more entangled we got, the more I planned times where he and I could practice together. We started meeting more often."

"She started arranging her schedule so that her husband dropped her off at committee meetings. I would hang around and offer to take her home, acting with as much nonchalance as I could muster up."


11. Arranging secret meetings.
"By now we both were so far gone that we started meeting secretly at the mall parking lot. It know now how foolish this was, but I was driven by something other than good sense at that time."

"We started arranging to work evenings on the same nights, then we would leave early and meet each other in the dark parking lot."

"I started making sure he knew my travel schedule so we could attend the same conferences. We still weren't involved physically at that time, but there was such excitement and romance to it all... even the secrecy seemed to make it more exciting."

"She would sometimes call me just before lunch and we'd sneak through a drive-up together, and then spend the rest of my lunch hour talking quietly to each other."


12. Deceit and cover ups.
"Once we were meeting secretly I had to invent all kinds of stories about where I'd been to satisfy my wife. By now I had built a towering wall of dishonesty between us."

"Pretty soon my whole life was full of lies. I'd lie about where I was going, where I'd been, and who I'd been with. The more suspicious my husband got, the better liar I became. But he knew something was going on. It's hard to lie without people suspecting it."

"I joined several groups so that I would have an excuse to be away in the evenings."

"She would ask when I'd gotten off work. I'd simply lie about it, and she never knew what hit her. How can I ever regain her trust now?"

"We agreed that if anyone saw us driving around we would both tell the same story: that my car wouldn't start, he stopped to help, an we were going together to get a new fuse to replace the broken one he'd discovered."

"By now my whole life was a lie, so I began telling them regularly to cover up our little meetings."


13. Kissing and embracing.
"The whole thing seemed so exciting by now. I was such a fool. We were meeting secretly and both of us were fearful of being caught. But that only seemed to increase our common ground. When we'd meet, we would embrace as if we'd not been together for years -- like in the movies when someone comes home from the war."

"Once we started meeting secretly the end came fast. We kissed and hugged like two teenagers going parking for their first time."

"It just felt so good to be hugged and loved by somebody who really cared about me."


14. Petting and high indiscretion.
"At this point my glands took over. I forgot reason altogether and was willing to risk everything for more."

"It was like I was a teenager again -- going too far, then repenting and promising to do better; then just as quick I was hungrily seeking more sin."

"When my husband and I were dating we struggled with 'how far to go.' Well, here I was again struggling over the same issue. Friendship with this guy didn't seem so wrong. But now were we're going further than I ever intended. But, I felt curiously justified going exactly as far as I had with my husband when had been dating. In a way, I think some of my resentment against my husband's constant pressure on me started coming out. I'm not saying that it wasn't wrong. Just that I kind of felt justified."

"At about this time I began fooling myself into thinking I was heroic for not going "all the way." That's what I wanted to do. But by doing "everything but" I fooled myself into thinking I was successfully resisting temptation. What I didn't realize was that, not only was what I was doing wrong, but that eventually I would take the next step. It's just not possible to freeze a relationship -- you have to go ahead with it, or break it off totally."


15. Sexual intercourse.
"Soon I quit resisting and was swept into outright adultery."

"One thing led to another and finally we ended up in bed with each other."

"Though we never intended it to go that far, we eventually went all the way and had sex."

"One night we couldn't seem to stop ourselves (at least we didn't want to) so I completed my journey of unfaithfulness to my husband -- I had sex with this man."

and of course I was too childish to bring this up but instead got all of the emotional support and attention that I was missing from my former boyfriend.

In August, my husband went out of town and I saw my old bf in Fresno for the first time, since high school. We spent the day together but nothing physical. The online talks grew deeper and between September and October I slept with him twice. In November my husband logged into my Facebook account and read a message to discover the affair. He threw me out of the house that night.

How would he feel if you offered to sell them all now? What if you went to him with a plan to sell them all now, affair proof the marriage NOW [getting rid of facebook among other things] and RECOVER your marriage using the Marriage Builders steps?

... The closing of the Facebook account was one of the first and the result of that discussion was that he didn't think I should close mine because in part he did not want to close his. He is constantly checking his Facebook so he felt it would be hypocritical to do that after I closed mine...

... What would you suggest about the business from a practical standpoint? Even H is on the fence about that. If we are able to reconcile he would like me to consider a different job but he understands the reality that if I gaveup the business there would be no way for me to survive without him paying spousal support and that is the #1 thing he does not want to do. ...

...I think we are both concerned that if I make the sacrifice he will stay out of a sense of obligation rather than an actual desire to be with me and that isnt good for either of us.

Melodylane
I raise chinchillas. Currently I have 6 large cages. He proposed that I reduce it to 4 cages and as more babies are born I sell them all, dont buy any more, and when they all die I'm done with owning chinchillas.

After talking to my husband and letting him know I was scared that he wouldn't want me back and I would be all alone

I ended it with the boyfriend. In retaliation he sent copies of all of the messages we had exchanged to my husband.

I have not spoken to the boyfriend

Pepperband
Thank you for bringing that up.

Melody and gloveoil
Yes, that makes sense. He has my password to Facebook as well as email and financial accounts, that was one of the first things we did at our pastor's suggestion but the idea of a joint Facebook account seems better tome. BH has told me he checks my FB and email several times a day.

...Would you please weigh in on my post about if I should force the living situation? Legally I could move back in today but if he doesn't want me there is that more harm than good?

...The affair has been exposed to just about everyone of significance in any of our lives. My parents and sister, all of our close friends, BH entire family and several coworkers, OMs family knew about it all along.

OMs wife has known he was seeing someone since we saw each other in person, at some point he made an off hand remark about the someone being his first girlfriend so at that point she knew who I was.

I can say with complete conviction that this never would have happened if it wasn't specifically this OM and it will never happen again with anyone else. I have made this point with BH and he said he doesn't know if that makes him feel better or worse about the situation.

Below is a portion of an email that I received from BH. Where do I go from here? I feel so hopeless.


I've been reading articles as well and so far they've opened my eyes with all the issues that I have with you and the marriage. I agree that living together would be what is needed to start reconciliation in a situation like this, however my gut feeling is that I shouldn't be with you anymore.

I truly believe you have a narcissistic personality. You're completely selfish and think you're better than everybody else and have no empathy for anyone. I'm not saying that to be hurtful but it's what everything over the last 10 + years has shown me. I do not whole heartedly believe you are capable of changing. Talk is cheap, what I need to see are actions.

I am taking this time to do some soul searching on my own. I have serious doubts that I can continue being with you. The hurt I feel is far to great and I deserve so much better than you.

How do I show acts when His wish is that i not see or talk to him? As I understand it, the affair is not the issue that he is focusing on in deciding whether or not to reconcile, it is more the other things he mentioned. I didn't realize it at the time but I had been treating him very poorly, belittling him in front of our families, and made several independent decisions, including a couple by large ones. The affair is what caused him to reevaluate everything and lose the one thing that he was holding on to- the thought that "our relationship isnt great but at least she never cheated on me" I have asked him to point out when I am doing these things because I really don't notice it and I am trying to make a point to realize it but how do I show him I am not being selfish if I am not in contact with him? How do I show him I can treat him well at home and build him up rather than tear him down in public if we are not ever together? How do I show him I value his opinion and am committed to the POJA if the only decision to be made is whether or not he wants to talk to me?

...Talk is cheap, what I need to see are actions...

...In the meantime, do you have any suggestions for resources to help me work on my personal issues with selfishness and lack of empathy since these have been two big issues of his...

BH emailed me earlier and asked what my plan was, this was my response:

You asked what my plan was, I'm guessing you mean assuming you allow me the chance how will I work on making things right?

TAKE ACTION don't focus on "if my BH sees this I will win him back" that makes the changes not genuine and look like a ploy to win him over. If it were me I would be worried if this was a long term or short term change. To remove that just do. Is your Facebook closed yet? Do you have a plan to love closer to home? Did you sell those pets? Did you write a list of EPs and put them on every mirror to remind you? Did you change your contact info? If the answer is no to any of these questions then your hedging bets and waffling hoping you can do minimal change to regain your BH's love. IT WON'T WORK!

You asked what my plan was, I'm guessing you mean assuming you allow me the chance how will I work on making things right?

First I would need ask to move back. Depending on your preferences, we can either continue with the divorce or not, and if you wanted me to I could give (our renter) notice the day I move back so that if after 45 days you have decided I am incapable of change I can leave right away. I have mixed feelings about that because it does give us an easy out and I don't know if that will effect your decision but if It would make you more comfortable I would've happy to do it.

I think we should buy I have already ordered the two books they talk about on the website, his needs, her needs and surviving an affair, as well as the companion activity guide. We should I'd like read the books together and do the activities. Even before the books come, we should might sit down and go through the website, take the emotional needs and love busters questionnaires on the website and discuss our answers. They also listed the top 10 emotional needs that are not being met and suggested we each order them from most to least important and discuss that so that we can learn how to best meet each others needs and not waste our efforts on misdirected attempts.

My plan requires me to unilaterally commit to the policy of radical honesty and the policy of joint agreement and I will have to ask the same of you in return. I've learned we should We need to discuss anything and everything, positive or negative, in a safe and loving environment. If I am not treating your anyone appropriately, call me out on it but do so with love. If you are doing something that bothers me, I will let you know as well. If one of us is missing something, we need to let the other person be aware of it at once rather than letting it fester. We should also apply the policy of joint agreement in our lives, where we should not do anything that we cannot come to a solution which we are both enthusiastic about. This will take a lot of time and effort but it is worth it.

We will need to take I've learned we should the time each week to devote at least 15 hours of undivided attention. To each other to work on meeting each others emotional needs, they suggest taking half an hour each week to map out our schedule and plan for time together. They suggest doing some every day rather than trying to cram in an undivided attention weekend and I agree that daily care is what we need.

In addition to going through the marriage busters BUILDERS program, we should make it a top priority to attend church every week and spend some time afterwards getting to know the people there. I want to take the confirmation classes and would be grateful if you would share with me in that experience and help me through it. Since I made the commitment to you that I would take the classes, I have been praying about us. I am not sure if it is doing any good but I hope the classes will help me understand better and I know that a relationship based around God is crucial to you. I would also like to attend the pastors marriage workshop or if there won't be one for a while, have another meeting with him to discuss tools on how we can move forward and how I can work towards making amends and bringing God into our relationship.

I do not want to make vague promises like I will be nicer or I will do more for you because those are words that can be taken too many ways. I would like to think that you have been able to see a change in if not the results than at least the efforts put in over the last few weeks. It is my promise to you that it is not temporary because of a fight but it will be a permanent effort to improve myself and our relation ship. I am not by any means perfect and I know I will need correcting from time to time but if If you will give me a second chance I promise I will not waste it.
I am committed to proving that I will not hurt you again, not only in terrible way that I hurt you with the affair, but also in day to day things like being mindfully inconsiderate or disrespectful in public or in private.

Since right now I am living 110 miles away from my husband and 3 miles from OM,

OH....MY....GOD!!!

Your idea of a good place to relocate after being revealed as an adulteress was 107 miles closer to OM than to BH?

We don't CARE about it being mum's place. This has to be changed immediately. Move to an apartment closer to home if moving HOME directly is still off the table.

You don't know OM's address, and can only determine same by driving over there? Stop the bull-[censored], my friend; it will not serve you well on this site. There are no telephone directories in your geography to look up his last name? You cannot ask Mum to drive past and get the number? Just get the letter written and in BH's hands, and ask him to get the address?

Wow! I mean......wow!

...his want is for me to be here with my sister...he likes the idea of me being "supervised"

Well, these facts were not obvious (at least to me) earlier. You now have a problem, between what BH thinks he wants (and "The BS drives the recovery bus!") and what we know your possible recovery needs.

POJA a schedule? "Okay, BH, I'll stay here for two weeks, but to start our recovery, I can't remain 110 miles away! Let's start thinking about what will work for you."

If he wants me here supervised doesn't want me to live with him, and doesn't know if he wants to reconcile, how do I know what move to make?

Thank you for taking the time to fine tune my eps.
I am going to protect my spouses feelings by listening to him and putting his needs and wants above my own. I will be completely open and honest with him. I will show kindness and love by doing small things to make his life easier whenever possible.
Any male friends that I am with in person are either his friends or the husband of my friend so there would be no reason for me to be with them without him
Would you happen to have a link to sample NC letters? My plan is to write one, get MB approval, and then give it to BH when i see him and leave it to him to decide whether or not to send it. I have a feeling that he will have sort of the same opinion as I do on it, that AP is very unstable and that as long as he is complying with our original requests not to contact me that sending him a NC letter is more likely to get him to try to contact me than to get the point across. In either case, it is BH's decision to make not mine and I will support his decision if he would rather send it or read it and toss it.
I do plan to have a set time each week for the schedule , that is something I want to schedule with him rather than missing a time that is convenient for me on him
The bed issue is something that he has mentioned was important to him in the past and much of the deep conversations I had with AP took place after BH had gone to bed.
Thank you for the clarification on the necessity of the extra time to repair vs time needed to maintain.
The accountability is actually a second part to the church one, as well as other obligations. We recently had a conversation about him feeling like church was important to him but he felt like it was up to him to keep us accountable and the burden was on him to get us to go to church. I am pledging to share in the responsibility to make sure we get out of bed and go each week.
By finding a loving way, I mean to make sure that no matter what I bring up, to do it in a way that is positive and non critical. To start any request for change by starting with something related that is complementary or I am appreciative of " I really appreciate that you ----, how would you feel about also ---"
The only reasons I wouldn't be able to answer would be something like if I was in another room and didnt hear the phone ring, or if he face timed and the iPad lid was closed so I didn't see it- mainly if I was unaware he was calling, or if I was driving

I would get that apartment set up tomorrow....don't delay!!

From earlier i didn't really finish, my closest female friend is married to BHs closest friend. Since exposure, they as a unit have seemed to side with him. Tough they have been kind to me when we have been together since then, I feel hurt and alienated. My life has typically consisted of home, the gym, and errands. My main source of social interaction has been with BH, he is truly my best friend but the lack of social interaction also meant that I had nobody to vent to, nobody but him to take out my stresses and frustrations on and that wasn't healthy.


Through this my sister has been my rock. It is not a stretch to say that I might not be around today if it wasn't for her. On days when I cannot bring myself to do anything, she has forced me to eat and drink. She went out with her friends for a day and i didnt realize that i had gone for 17 hours without drinking anything and couldnt figure out whyi was so dizzy i couldnt stand up straight. She has run my business for me when I was unable and when I need to spend the time with BH. She has kept my spirits as positive as she can and been there for me when all I can do is sit in bed and sob. I suspect this also may be a reason BH wants me to stay with her rather than move somewhere on my own.
To answer the question of why I didn't give the tenants notice 2 months ago, he didn't want me to and up until this weekend I have been at home 3-5 days of the week.
At this point I have to remind myself not to get my hopes up too high about anything that seems like a positive situation. It was not just his parents he told that he was committed to about my going, he told his aunt and uncle as well. This was before he announced that he needed his space, it is possible that he has canceled it by now and I just don't know about it yet. Canceling it would just let me have a credit on the airline anyways so if he canceled it and then decided he didn't want me to go the only one who would be out Anything would be me.
I am trying not to pressure him but he is aware of the deadline for the tenants. I have told him numerous times that we can always get new tenants and I can move back there whenever the 45 days is up but so far he is reluctant to do that. The only other thing I can think of that I may be doing to add pressure is that I have expressed how hard his flip flopping is on me and he has seen how much it hurts me each time he has done it in person or on the phone. This is another part of what makes me reluctant to let on exactly how badly I am doing emotionally (and starting to be physically as a result). Where does my telling him how much of an effect this is having on me stop being radical honesty and start being a guilt trip?
I hope I am not asking a bunch of stupid questions. My actions have been so selfishly motivated for so long I don't even know where to begin with what is selfish and what is reasonable so I end up not taking any action for fear it will be selfish and make things worse.

A Good show about a wayward wife. Tell us what you think.

Radio Clip on a Wayward Wife
Segment #2
Segment #3

A young woman went to her grandmother and told her abo...ut her life and how things were so hard for her. She did not know how she was going to make it and wanted to give up. She was tired of fighting and struggling. It seemed as one problem was solved a new one arose.

Her grandmother took her to the kitchen. She filled three pots with water. In the first, she placed carrots, in the second she placed eggs and the last she placed ground coffee beans. She let them sit and boil without saying a word.

In about twenty minutes she turned off the burners. She fished the carrots out and placed them in a bowl. She pulled the eggs out and placed them in a bowl. Then she ladled the coffee out and placed it in a bowl. Turning to her granddaughter, she asked, "Tell me what do you see?"

"Carrots, eggs, and coffee," she replied.

She brought her closer and asked her to feel the carrots. She did and noted that they got soft.She then asked her to take an egg and break it.

After pulling off the shell, she observed the hard-boiled egg.

Finally, she asked her to sip the coffee. The granddaughter smiled, as she tasted its rich aroma. The granddaughter then asked. "What's the point,grandmother?"

Her grandmother explained that each of these objects had faced the same adversity--boiling water--but each reacted differently.

The carrot went in strong, hard and unrelenting. However after being subjected to the boiling water, it softened and became weak. The egg had been fragile. Its thin outer shell had protected its liquid interior. But, after sitting through the boiling water, its inside became hardened.

The ground coffee beans were unique, however. After they were in the boiling water they had changed the water.

"Which are you?" she asked her granddaughter.

"When adversity knocks on your door, how do you respond? Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?"

Think of this: Which am I?

Am I the carrot that seems strong, but with pain and adversity, do I wilt and become soft and lose my strength?

Am I the egg that starts with a malleable heart, but changes with the heat? Did I have a fluid spirit, but after a death, a breakup, a financial hardship or some other trial, have I become hardened and stiff?

Does my shell look the same, but on the inside am I bitter and tough with a stiff spirit and a hardened heart?

Or am I like the coffee bean? The bean actually changes the hot water, the very circumstance that brings the pain. When the water gets hot, it releases the fragrance and flavor. If you are like the bean, when things are at their worst, you get better and change the situation around you.

When the hours are the darkest and trials are their greatest do you elevate to another level?

AUTHOR UNKNOWN

. . .For when I am weak, then am I strong.
see - 2 Corinthians 12:10

Where do i go from here? can i go anywhere from here?

I am as certain as I can possibly be that he has not found someone new and that his actions are solely a result of the pain I caused him.

This email is going to be hard to read. I'm very sorry how hurt and hopeless you are going to feel and if I could do it another way I would. First and foremost, I appreciate the effort you have show the last few weeks.

This weekend I found the much needed clarity I've been searching for. I feel like I am rediscovering myself. I have feelings of hope and optimism for the future which I have not felt in such a long time.

Being married to you has been extremely hard on me and I feel that I have misplaced my values along with my happiness along the way. I truly believe I am better off not being with you, it tears me up to say that but it's what I feel. I have given all I have to you and you didn't appreciate, respect or show me any support or gratitude. The affair was the culmination of all things that I despise about your personality. You showed your selfishness, lack of respect and commitment (something I never thought you would do). It also showed me you were trying to put this on me because I wasn't showing you love in your way. You reflect blame on everyone but yourself. You need to own this affair and know that it was your actions that killed it. You have put me last on you list of priorities and I am a fool to have allowed myself to be treated like that for such a long time.

I've been trying to look past all the bad stuff and focus on the good. Well there really is no good and no benefit to try andwork things out. I feel that if I did I would be doing it out of obligation and not out of want. I would be staying to try and salvage the past and the time I have put into this relationship. In order to heal this marriage both parties need to want to be together. I don't want to wholeheartedly try and I believe when it fails it will be so much harder on the both of us.

I'm glad you are working on yourself and I pray that you will have the strength to carry on with this enormously important goal. But please, I beg of you, do not do anything stupid or try to hurt yourself. You will gain nothing form it. Feel free to respond back if you desire.

Pepperbank,
Would you please help me navigate the blueprint to his love bank?

Here's a question, and I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up already...

Is there any chance your husband has met someone else since you've been separated?

I see what may be some red flags:

The first is the wishy-washiness on trying to reconcile, how when you were there fore weekends it was yes, then he reconsiders a day or two after you leave.

The second is his desire to keep you 110 miles away.

Usually the posters here can spot the signs of someone involved in an affair a hundred miles away, it's all so typical. I'm not as sure on this one, but the question needs to be explored.

This email is going to be hard to read.

I'm very sorry how hurt and hopeless you are going to feel and if I could do it another way I would.

First and foremost, I appreciate the effort you have show the last few weeks.

This weekend I found the much needed clarity I've been searching for. I feel like I am rediscovering myself. I have feelings of hope and optimism for the future which I have not felt in such a long time.

Being married to you has been extremely hard on me and I feel that I have misplaced my values along with my happiness along the way.

I truly believe I am better off not being with you, it tears me up to say that but it's what I feel.

I have given all I have to you and you didn't appreciate, respect or show me any support or gratitude.

The affair was the culmination of all things that I despise about your personality.

You showed your selfishness, lack of respect and commitment (something I never thought you would do).

It also showed me you were trying to put this on me because I wasn't showing you love in your way. You reflect blame on everyone but yourself.

You need to own this affair

and know that it was your actions that killed it.

You have put me last on you list of priorities and I am a fool to have allowed myself to be treated like that for such a long time.

I've been trying to look past all the bad stuff and focus on the good.

Well there really is no good and no benefit to try andwork things out.

I feel that if I did I would be doing it out of obligation and not out of want.

I would be staying to try and salvage the past and the time I have put into this relationship.

In order to heal this marriage both parties need to want to be together. I don't want to wholeheartedly try

and I believe when it fails it will be so much harder on the both of us.

I'm glad you are working on yourself and I pray that you will have the strength to carry on with this enormously important goal.

But please, I beg of you, do not do anything stupid or try to hurt yourself. You will gain nothing form it. Feel free to respond back if you desire.

A marital complaint usually falls into one of two broad categories:

1) "You are not meeting my emotional needs," or
2) "Your behavior is upsetting me."

The first category reflects a failure to make your spouse happy, and the second category reflects a failure to avoid making your spouse unhappy.

When you meet your spouse's emotional needs, you deposit love units into your spouse's Love Bank. And when you avoid behavior that makes your spouse unhappy, you avoid withdrawing love units. That combination leads to romantic love, the feeling of incredible attraction that is essential in a happy and fulfilling marriage. So if your spouse ever registers a complaint in either of these two categories, my advice to you is to take care of the problem as quickly as possible. Don't wait for it to become an even greater problem, in hopes that it will eventually go away. And then, let the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse) guide you to a solution.

I'm tracking your thread FM. You started off sounding like my WW and now your seem to get the MB principles being thrown here. I am in agreement that your BH cares about you a great deal but is hurt and protecting himself from your destructive behavior you exhibited in the past. Look at the translation of the email contact, its all in black and white. As they say on this board alot, clean up your side of the street. The fact he's complaining isn't a bad thing but a road map to you doing an inventory of yourself and making the changes to meet his emotional needs. You have done a lot of growing up since your 1st post. Keep on that path!

Here's a question, and I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up already...

Is there any chance your husband has met someone else since you've been separated?

I see what may be some red flags:

The first is the wishy-washiness on trying to reconcile, how when you were there fore weekends it was yes, then he reconsiders a day or two after you leave.

The second is his desire to keep you 110 miles away.

Usually the posters here can spot the signs of someone involved in an affair a hundred miles away, it's all so typical. I'm not as sure on this one, but the question needs to be explored.

H s phone is through his work so there would be no way possible for me to access those records. When we first started trying to work on it we exchanged all passwords so if I wanted to I could check his Facebook and email records but he works on computers for a living and is the one who gave me the passwords so he knows I have them. I believe with every fiber of my being that he is not seeing anyone else but if he were there would be absolutely no way he would be sloppy enough to get caught, especially not from 110 miles away.

I am looking into how to work on my narcissistic personality disorder.

Ummmmmmmmmmm
Were you officially diagnosed by a psychiatrist?
This is a real question. Yes or no.

FM... Yes, a real question...

FM,

I am so very happy for you! Please, however do not forget the pain that you inflicted on both your H and yourself. Keep an open mind and keep an open relationship with your H. Is sounds like you guys were living separate lives and now it is time to start enjoying your life together.

Remember as well that the emotional roller coaster ride is still going on. Your H will have good days but he will also have some really bad days. Those are moments when you will need to really put your MB skills to the test and really relish the new you and your new marriage.

I still highly encourage you and your H to read the books together. There is so much to learn and improve on in your marriage by reading them.


Fifteen...going on Sixteen

I think the answer is "no". Never diagnosed. True NPD is pretty striking. I do not get a *whiff* of a disorder on her. I'm pretty good with my nostrils. 30 years in the trenches. Yanno?

Thank you everyone for your support and well wishes. We are definitely going to do the program (one of his conditions for me moving back) we spent about 4 hours talking last night and again tonight. I know it is going to be a long and sometimes rocky road but I am determined to put in the work.

FM, if you had been diagnosed (by a licensed PSYCHIATRIST) as having narcissistic personality disorder, I would advise you to seek MEDICAL treatment.
You are not narcissistic personality disorder, therefore the advice is completely different!
This is why it is important to make the distinction.
MB program is the ticket. MB has behavioral concepts which will allow both of you to fall back in love with each other.

Selfish behaviors and selfless behaviors (both potentially destructive to the love bank) are taken into consideration in the MB behavioral program.

Status update, last night we spent a couple hours going over the emotional needs questionnaire and explaining our answers to each other in depth. I think we both have a much better understanding, it's amazing how much I didn't know about the man I have spent over a third of my life with. Tomorrow we are renting a uhaul and getting the rest of my things from my sister's house. She said that one of the MB books has been delivered so we'll be able to get to work on the program.

FM,

I am so excited and proud of you and your new discovery on starting a great marriage. Something about your first post led me to believe that if your H was gracious enough to give you another chance that you would work the program to it fullest to help your marriage.

Keep us posted and keep up the good work! Don't forget that the people on here are there for you through good and bad.

Fifteen going on Sixteen

Thank you. I plan to keep posting as time allows. One thing I have come to find already is this takes A LOT of time. Tonight we had set aside an hour and a half to read the bible together then read a chapter of love busters and discuss. Somehow this turned into 4 hours of somewhat difficult discussion. We covered some old issues but there was no final resolution and we are both physically and emotionally exhausted. On the positive side, we did make it through without any angry outbursts and we both have points to reflect on.

That is really great to hear. We realized today that we jumped in with both feet and the talking was becoming a job. We were spending an hour or two doing something fun then going over love busters and coming out emotionally exhausted. As important as it is to tackle the issues in the books, we need to enjoy each other too.
I know he is going to have days when he needs a tough talk because things are on his mind but we plan to try to do the tough stuff on the weekends after we haven't both already had a long hard day. Tonight takeout and a movie between happier talks.

BH needs to vent his anger?

Have a notebook ready. If his temper lasts longer than 5 minutes, hand him the notebook and pen and ask him to write it all down for you. Then, promise him you will read what he is angry about and respond in writing in the same notebook.

Please, let us know how that goes.
Remember, many times, anger is fear disguised.
View him as releasing his fears via a more manly outlet. Looking at it through that frame may help you understand things better.



This is all normal stuff.

Have a notebook ready. If his temper lasts longer than 5 minutes, hand him the notebook and pen and ask him to write it all down for you. Then, promise him you will read what he is angry about and respond in writing in the same notebook.

Please, let us know how that goes.
Remember, many times, anger is fear disguised.
View him as releasing his fears via a more manly outlet. Looking at it through that frame may help you understand things better.



This is all normal stuff.

...[OM] came to her house saying that he would give up his kids to be with her (FM doesn't like kids and OM had 2 little ones). ...

...[OM] came to her house saying that he would give up his kids to be with her (FM doesn't like kids and OM had 2 little ones). ...

Grateful to have dodged the full impact of the "bullet" which your own choices aimed right at your head. A bullet that would've hit your life with devastating impact if you'd yoked yourself to someone who was such a moral cipher that he'd ditch his own kids in order to take another man's wife. (That's the part that should make you sick to your stomach.)

The topic of a NC letter has come up and I was hoping that I could please get some insight from the vets. I feel like it would be reopening a can of worms. It seems counter intuitive to me to contact OM after two and a half months without contacting him to say not to contact me. I have concerns that this would be more likely to make him contact me than doing nothing.
When I made the decision to dedicate myself to saving the marriage and ended it with the OM, he showed up at my sister's door within the hour. Since then, he has tried emailing me a couple times but I have not responded and have since changed my personal email address and personal phone number but he knows the name of my business so even if I changed that number and email a dozen times he could still go to the website and get it again. It concerns me that getting a letter from me would be exactly the kind of thing that would start calls, which thankfully I have not gotten so far.
I do not think he knows where I live. He has never been to my house but I know from Facebook maps he has a pretty good idea and since there are no other residential complexes in the area and I had mentioned the unit number in previous conversations there is a small possibility that he could show up here but I kind of doubt that. If he did we would have the added concern of BH ending up in jail or us getting sued...
In summary, I would appreciate if someone would please explain why it is a good idea to send a NC letter since from a practical point of view I am having a hard time wrapping my head around it. Though I wasn't seeing it before, OM is highly unstable and I'm worried it would do more harm than good to stir things up.

The topic of a NC letter has come up and I was hoping that I could please get some insight from the vets. I feel like it would be reopening a can of worms. It seems counter intuitive to me to contact OM after two and a half months without contacting him to say not to contact me. I have concerns that this would be more likely to make him contact me than doing nothing.
When I made the decision to dedicate myself to saving the marriage and ended it with the OM, he showed up at my sister's door within the hour. Since then, he has tried emailing me a couple times but I have not responded and have since changed my personal email address and personal phone number but he knows the name of my business so even if I changed that number and email a dozen times he could still go to the website and get it again. It concerns me that getting a letter from me would be exactly the kind of thing that would start calls, which thankfully I have not gotten so far.
I do not think he knows where I live. He has never been to my house but I know from Facebook maps he has a pretty good idea and since there are no other residential complexes in the area and I had mentioned the unit number in previous conversations there is a small possibility that he could show up here but I kind of doubt that. If he did we would have the added concern of BH ending up in jail or us getting sued...
In summary, I would appreciate if someone would please explain why it is a good idea to send a NC letter since from a practical point of view I am having a hard time wrapping my head around it. Though I wasn't seeing it before, OM is highly unstable and I'm worried it would do more harm than good to stir things up.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent

oh no! you cried all night about sending a no contact letter? you feel like your husband is being demanding and mean by dictating how the letter should read?

poor little mouse! it looks as if your reality is shifting and you can no longer whip your husband around like an old dishrag.

i guess it's time to think hard about whether you want to stay married or not because if you do, you're going to heave to learn how to give in ways you've never given before.

personally, i think he took you back way too quick. you think you're on top now. think again.

I missed the part about how we're sending it, I asked in my earlier post if it should be hand written or typed or if it doesnt matter so were unclear on that still but after getting some feedback tonight we are going to type/write it tomorrow morning before he leaves for work and he is going to take it with hi to mail. The envelopes all stamped and addressed. I used the business po box as the return address.

I feel a need to clarify a few things


The OM is not the issue. I have no intention of contacting him or conversing if he contacts me. I am not leaving the door open, my concern was completely about the fallout of the letter dealing with it causing him to contact me more. When I told him before that I chose H over him he retaliated by trying to poison H against me in a "if I can't have her I'll make us you don't want her" fashion. In taing to H last night I explained to him that i hesitated what I needed was a show of support that nothing OM could say or do would change things and that whatever he tried to do we would get through together.

Mr Aqua has taken the letter to be mailed so we are done there. He says he is already feeling better and I can see the change in his attitude towards me.

Now on to the next issue...
Those reading his post saw last night about the girl that has been messaging him. ..... Aqua posted on FB and she was immediately there comforting him, offiring to come over and cook him dinner, ect. He said not without his friend there as well so it didn't happen.

Mr Aqua has taken the letter to be mailed so we are done there. He says he is already feeling better and I can see the change in his attitude towards me.

Now on to the next issue...
Those reading his post saw last night about the girl that has been messaging him. A little background there. She was dating one of Mr Aquas close longtime friends for several years. They broke up and in less than a year she was married to another very close friend from their circle. She is 22, he is in his late 30s (38-39?)
From what I gather, they are having problems and it seems like she is trying to jump to another friend I the group.

The day of discovery, Aqua posted on FB and she was immediately there comforting him, offiring to come over and cook him dinner, ect. He said not without his friend there as well so it didn't happen. Then she was inviting him to do stuff with her/them on the weekends when I was down here trying to work things out but whenever he told her that I would be coming as well all of a sudden it didn't happen. Last night she texted him that her husband was out of town, they had been having problems and when he asked what was going on she said it was more of a sit down and tell story but she could come over and make him dinner, salmon salad. He replied that I don't eat fish but if she wanted to come over I would cook for all of us and her response was no thanks, I didn't realize FM had moved back.
At this point I asked Aqua to tell her that as part of MB we had come to the agreement that neither of us would socialize (dinner, ect) with a member of the opposite sex without the other present. I also said he should point out how inappropriate it would be for her to come over and share her marital problems with him without me there as well. Instead of doing either of these things, he suggested we all get together and maybe compare how we are working through our problems. This sort of got an unenthusiastic sounds good in the future that led me to believe its not going to happen.
They talked a bit more, part if it felt like she was trying to engage him in conversation and part of it was her trying to get us involved in her pyramid scheme business. I'm nt sure how the conversation ended but at 10:40 when we were in bed he got a goodnight text from her.

So, any advice on how to solve it? He says that he told her husband about the messages and pictures and that part of him wants to play along and see how far she'd push it so he can trap her and tell him. As much as I like the idea of sending her a NC letter, since she is married to a man who has been his friend since before we met 12 years ago I would hate for him to lose that friendship because if this woman he has been married to for a year. I really want him to just tell her that her behavior is inappropriate and he will not be socializing with her at any time unless either I or her h are also there. I also feel like the next time I see her I should take her aside and tell her that I know how easy it is to cross a line, I know about mistakes, and I know about forgiveness. Aqua has shared everything you have sent him with me and it is completely inappropriate. It needs to stop right now, I am willing to give you a lean slate but cross the line again and we are going to have problems. Aqua says he doesn't want me to say anything like that to her because it would cause tension but I feel it needs to be said if we are going to continue to have a relationship with the as a couple.

I don't know how much of this I should be worried about. I let Aqua know that by not telling her about our boundaries I felt like he was valuing her feelings above mine. I want to believe that his intentions are genuine and that he really is playing along to help out his friend so he knows that she is going to screw him over and I feel that he has been honest and upfront with what has happened so far but I am still uncomfortable with it. I know as the WW I am in no position to be making demands and I am trying to understand his position but in anger a revenge affair has been mentioned. Is it wrong for me to want him to take EPs as well?

... We are thinking about trying to pursue the loose plan of a couples get together this weekend and get everything out but since she has ducked out every time I was around so far so we will see how that goes. ...

Good call.

I'm feeling a little frustrated and upset right now. I just spoke to my mom and experienced a complete lack of support in our recovery.
One of the conditions H gave in trying to continue our marriage was that I stopped my monthly trip to the casino with my mother and sister. He feels that it is a waste of money and I should not be taking time away from my work to gamble. I have not gone with them on their last two trips and today my mom asked me if I could go next month since it is my birthday month. I told her we had to discuss it and her response was "so what, do you need permission to go anywhere or do anything now?"
My parents have been married for 33 years but they are a huge example of independent behavior. They both do exactly what they want and usually don't even tell each other about it until after the fact. I can see that having that as an example I learned the same bad habits and now I feel like by taking H's opinions into consideration and following poja my mother is criticizing me for it.

...After the talk she asked me not to tell H...

...I was upset and expressed this to him. We had a long discussion about how I felt betrayed ...

... When I told him how upset I was that he again broke my confidence and put someone else above me he started yelling at me that it was [th]e right thing to do and I'm the one who f---Ed him over so I didn't know how it felt so it was his call to stop it from happening to his friend. ...

...I feel like I never should have told him since he did break his word to not to tell...

... and 4. ...

...I understand his reasoning for wanting to tell his friend but I feel like the way it went down completely ignored everything we have learned so far. ...

... Am I being completely unreasonable and blowing this out of proportion? Tonight feels like the same crappy relationship we had before any of this started. ...

For want of a nail...

Well, your friend should've asked you beforehand. But you made a choice there: You made a commitment to conceal info from your husband. Especially info about an affair. Your concealing info about (even prospective) infidelity no doubt evokes a vicseral fear in him. He wants to believe that you have fundamentally changed, and that your ethical standards with respect to concealing possible infidelity are not situation-dependent. When you made a promise to conceal info from your husband, you in effect made him a little Poop-on-a-Triscuit hors d'houvre & handed it to him to swallow. Naturally, everything afterwards in this episode went downhill.

Hmmm, "betrayed"... maybe not the best choice of words there, FM, wouldn't you say? Your words should aim to express how you feel without being inflammatory, and I can think of few words that might be more inflammatory to a betrayed spouse's ear. How about just, you felt "hurt"? (Cuz, really: He knows how 'betrayed' feels in a way that hopefully you & I never will, right?)

I'm not justifying the making/breaking of commitments on his part, either, but the right thing to do is the right thing to do.

Instead, try, "I never should've promised to conceal info about his friend's wife's potential infidelity from my husband." You see how that would've prevented the problem? Do y'see how your first wish, in what you said, was to have avoided the consequence of a flawed decision? (A very human trait, by the way.) Ideally, our first instinct, at least in looking back post mortem, should be to have avoided making the decision that led to the consequence.

Nah. Nope. Stop with the making lists of wrongs. Ya don't wanna go there.

"Mrs. Pot? May I introduce to you Mr. Kettle."

Well, there's enough wrong here to go around. Neither of you POJA'd this very well. And you have an extra obligation (you volunteered for it) to be extra-attentive in following the Rule of Protection.

So going forward: Apologize to him for making a pledge that you should never have made, and express that you realize (and I hope you do) that that's how this whole kerfuffle started.

POJA takes practice. It's not something that you (as a couple) just read & assimilate flawlessly. It requires constant practice by you & him, together, in real-life circumstances.

If there was ever a situation in which my FWW would approach me about a conversation she would have had with a married female friend of hers who would have shared a 'secret' concerning inappropriate behavior with some one of the opposite sex (EA or PA) and did not tell me she DENOUNCED the conduct immediately during the conversation with her friend�well�that would be a strong signal to me that her attitude toward adultery was quite different than mine. In fact, it would be a massive love bank withdraw to the extent that I would actually consider divorce.

See, I would expect my FWW (as I would do) to say to her friend �look, what you are doing is wrong. Either you tell him tonight or I am going to do it for you. Your husband has every right to know this information as it greatly affects his life�. Anything short of that is called enabling.

Any other path than this, would signal lessons have not been learned and she hasn�t really changed. See, my FWW truly understands the pain that an A brings to the BS and many many other people. With this knowledge, I would expect her to make the right decisions when the opportunity presented itself.

That is where you went wrong fluffy. That is why he is upset.

I see from your perspective how you might be upset by your H not discussing having the conversation with his friend prior to doing so. However, it is possible that his attitude is similar to mine as stated above. If I thought for one second, my FWW would enable such behavior after ALL the lessons we have learned through our R; I would not want to be married to her.

Tonight I am having a hard time and I could use some advice.

My closest friend and H's closest friend are married. They are currently having a hard time, it sounds to me like she is having an EA though she claims it is nothing. She recently confided in me and I was telling her about the MB principles. After the talk she asked me not to tell H but he wanted to know and in keeping with being completely open and honest with each other I told him but made it clear that I would only tell him if he did not tell his friend. He agreed but the next day he told a lot of what I told him to his friend. I was upset and expressed this to him. We had a long discussion about how I felt betrayed anyone of the biggest problems for me in our marriage before we started with MB was I felt that he put other people's feelings ahead of mine. He apologized for breaking my confidence but justified it by saying that he felt that telling him was the right thing to do.

Today he told me that he spoke to his friend and told him everything because he needed to know. After I just told him how betrayed I was that he told his friend any of what I told himinconfidence and how he should have discussed it with me first he did it again to an even greater degree. When I told him how upset I was that he again broke my confidence and put someone else above me he started yelling at me that it was e right thing to do and I'm the one who f---Ed him over so I didn't know how it felt so it was his call to stop it from happening to his friend.

My feelings are 1. He should have protected my feelings over his friend 2. If he felt that strongly about telling his friend we should have discussed it first 3. I feel like I never should have told him since he did break his word to not to tell so I feel like I can't trust him to keep my confidences and 4. When I tried to be open with my feelings and why I was upset he completely shut me down, yelled at me and said it was the right thing to do so he did it. End of story, he would do it again.

I understand his reasoning for wanting to tell his friend but I feel like the way it went down completely ignored everything we have learned so far I MB. He had a previous commitment to go help a friend this evening and the fight was on his way for work to his friend's house so we have not had achance to further discuss it yet and I don't know when he will be home tonight. Am I being completely unreasonable and blowing this out of proportion? Tonight feels like the same crappy relationship we had before any of this started.

Glove oil,
I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you or I didn't make myself clear to begin with. You mention a promise I shouldn't have made and I'm unclear on what that was. Before we went to see our friends that day we had poja that regardless of their requests to keep secrets we would discuss it with each other but not with them.i feel like I kept up my end then he turned around and used it against me..

I saw my place with my friend to be an ear to talk to, to offer my opinion

Had a long talk with H last night and I am understanding things a bit more. I saw my place with my friend to be an ear to talk to, to offer my opinion, which was to talk to her H and to realize that she has formed an emotional attachment to this guy that she needs to end if she wantedto continue her marriage, but to otherwise stay out of it. imnot ready to try to fix someone else's problems, i have enough to work on in my own life

Hello is anybody home?

The lights are on but nothing is registering.

I am not understanding what I did wrong here. I immediately ( in the car on the way home) told him everything my friend told me under the understanding that it was in confidence and that we were to discuss it before discussing with either of them what was said to us. I did not conceal a thing from H or give him and reason to question me. After that I have stayed out of it. He discussed it with his friend without consulting me, then after reading the advice to send his friend here and agreeing to stay out of it because it was damaging our relationship he went and told his friend everything.
I realize that morally telling his friend was the right thing to do, but I feel that doing so after telling me he wouldn't and not discussing it with me in between is a blatant discard for my feelings and it hurt me deeply. Before the A my biggest complaint was that I felt unloved and unimportant. I feel very strongly that by choosing to protect his friend's immediate request for information rather than telling him that he needed to discuss it with me first he is sending the loud and clear message, the friend is more important than I am. It is worth hurting me to help his friend.

Had a long talk with H last night and I am understanding things a bit more. I saw my place with my friend to be an ear to talk to, to offer my opinion, which was to talk to her H and to realize that she has formed an emotional attachment to this guy that she needs to end if she wantedto continue her marriage, but to otherwise stay out of it. imnot ready to try to fix someone else's problems, i have enough to work on in my own life without bringing any unnecessary drama into it.
Her information about the OM came after a whole lot of other information, including the fact that she just had a miscarriage that made her realize how much she didn't want children, something her H has made very clear was a condition of their M. She had already told me everything and we were walking back to meet H when she mentioned at the end not to say anything, literally feet away from them so there was no time for discussion.
In any case, we agreed that trying to help them is causing us far too many problems so next time they come to us for help on this we have to tell them that we are praying for them but we need to stay out of it because it is damaging our relationship.

Had a long talk with H last night and I am understanding things a bit more. I saw my place with my friend to be an ear to talk to, to offer my opinion, which was to talk to her H and to realize that she has formed an emotional attachment to this guy that she needs to end if she wantedto continue her marriage, but to otherwise stay out of it. imnot ready to try to fix someone else's problems, i have enough to work on in my own life without bringing any unnecessary drama into it.
Her information about the OM came after a whole lot of other information, including the fact that she just had a miscarriage that made her realize how much she didn't want children, something her H has made very clear was a condition of their M. She had already told me everything and we were walking back to meet H when she mentioned at the end not to say anything, literally feet away from them so there was no time for discussion.
In any case, we agreed that trying to help them is causing us far too many problems so next time they come to us for help on this we have to tell them that we are praying for them but we need to stay out of it because it is damaging our relationship.

This week has been more on track but we are still missing out on fully utilizing UA time. Does anyone have tips on how to make sure we get it all in when life gets in the way? We sat down Sunday and made a schedule for the week but a household emergency caused us to completely skip it Tuesday and Wednesday we were both feeling very stressed, which took a toll on our time together and ability to fully connect. Most nights when he gets home we spend about an hour together and then by the time we make and have dinner, shower, and clean up, we're just about ready for bed. I know quality UA time is better spent when we're not falling asleep but it seems like there just aren't enough hours in the day to get everything done.

When life gets in the way, do the UA time first and let the rest of "life" wait. If UA time were the number one priority, it would always occur.

Did your house fall down? Did you have a major car accident? Was your household emergency on the magnitude of these?

AM

Would you have accepted your BH's violation of the "privacy" of your discussions to attempt to save the other man's life?

If so, why do you resent BH's violation of the "privacy" of your discussions to attempt to save the other man's marriage?

I think my honest answer to this would be selfish. If in the hypothetical you gave about a secret to kill her husband, I would not ask my husband to not tell his friend because if my friend went through with it she would have committed murder and I would no longer wish to be her friend. On the other hand, I would not turn my back on my friend for doing something I did and she did not turn her back on me.

I really did think long about this about what I would do if the situation were reversed. if my husband came to me and said that he has a friend thinking about killing his wife but asked him not to tell, he is only telling me because we don't have secrets with each other but but he wants to keep his friend's confidence and is trusting me to do so. Would I try to convince him otherwise? Absolutely everyday. Would I say something if H had made it very clear he did not want me to? I really don't think I would. I don't know if I would feel different if I were the bs instead of the ws but as the ws, I would be scared to cause the strain that would come from breaking his trust no matter the reason.

if my husband came to me and said that he has a friend thinking about killing his wife . . . Would I say something if H had made it very clear he did not want me to? I really don't think I would.

if my husband came to me and said that he has a friend thinking about killing his wife . . . Would I say something if H had made it very clear he did not want me to? I really don't think I would.

Assuming you failed to act, and the murder was committed, would you be countenancing maintaining that friendship thereafter?

Wait a sec....I realize this is a hypothetical here, but you do realize this would make you - and your H - accessories to the crime, right?

Wait a sec....I realize this is a hypothetical here, but you do realize this would make you - and your H - accessories to the crime, right?

So how is it different when it comes to covering up adultery? Adultery is a crime as well...one that results in the death of a marriage.

When you know something is wrong, yet you sit idly by and do nothing...it is exactly like allowing the poor man to walk down a street, knowing that at the other end stands someone with a loaded gun.

Look, been there, done that. A dear friend of mine was cheating on her college boyfriend. H and I, dating at the time, both knew and I asked him not to get involved, because he wanted to tell the boyfriend, and I valued my friendship. I see things differently now, and I'm not the same stupid girl I was in college. No, it wasn't a marriage, I understand that...but it was an exclusive dating relationship that was long-term, and the importance of O&H can't be underestimated - dating is like an interview for marriage, right? So the boyfriend should have been made aware that my friend - as much as I love her - had failed the interview.

Incidentally, she married the guy she cheated with, and he ended up cheating on her...but they have been able to recover their marriage, and trust me when I say she isn't the same girl she was in college, either.

What must occur is a shift in your way of thinking, FM. A shift that requires you to value the sanctity of marriage - of anyone's marriage - over all else. A marriage is a living, breathing thing that adultery kills just as a loaded gun in the hands of a murderer takes a life.

ETA: you would not be "turning your back on" your friend. You would be saving her from the very mistake that you have made. That is true friendship.

****edit****

Overall we counted 29 hours of UA time for the week.
We decided this morning to start keeping a record of what we do each day to make this easier rather than sitting here trying to figure out what we did all week after the fact.

I did not ask you to agree with me.

I did not ask you with any other purpose then to just gain insight into your husband's thoughts.

I know I am as not as smart as other's here.

Though I know it is not your thread.

Now I want to point out that my questions came out of what you said.

You should not bring things to light if you do not want to address them.