Mel, even his posting here directly to his wife is manipulation. He is not looking for help. He is posting to say "SEE I'M DOING WHAT YOU ASKED! NOW GET OFF MY BACK AND LET ME GET BACK TO THE WAY THINGS WERE"

He reminds me of someone else I know...

I have enthusiastically agreed to do an anger management class on my own. I have written SM a letter and sent it to our coach. I will be talking with her about it tomorrow morning.

We talked last night. You talked and read journals to me that you had dated back to �06 to now. This would be 2 years before the affair. Our marriage has been going downhill since then.

The first 2 years of friendship/dating and 11 to 12 years of marriage I had the mind set of give you 90% of me and expect 10% from you in return. I always put you first. I will address that I have not done this the past 6 years. I use to treat you like a queen and thought of you that way.

I know that your intent is to protect our marriage. The things that were put on the table were for me to separate from and put you first. You want me to love you.


The big love busters for me from you:

Dismissing my opinion a lot of times in regards to our children.

Excessive internet usage.

Not having UA and RC time with you. Not having RC time with our children.

Remodeling our house caused massive amounts of arguments. We only have a few more years with our children at home. I do not want to move to another house that we have to remodel. It is not healthy for me or our relationship. I would like to make it through this and then downsize when the girls are gone. I would be open to doing this earlier if everything would look stable. It withdraws love units when I hear I hate this house. We saved and rented for 11 years for this house. Everything was done here for you in my mind and eyes for 3 years. The front yard was completely dug up. I took 7 dump truck loads off and completely landscaped it for you so every day you came home you would see a clean yard with flowers and hope it would make you feel happy to see it. The same was for the inside of the house. I do understand your feelings about the house but I would like to work on other issues first before anything is done about the house.

Bringing up we argued �X� amount of times. You threatened to leave �X� amount of times. You didn�t love me. How could you love me if you did these things? You keep documentation of these things and you read them and bring them back up. You keep documentation of what the OW sent you and you read this. I feel that you shouldn�t be going back and reading these things for us to move forward.

I have no problem with transparency and honesty as long as it goes both ways. I have a big problem that I do not have a job and not one dollar coming in and you opened a secret account and depleted our money in it. You told me you wouldn�t let me go hungry. Having a secret account is dishonest.
This makes me feel like you have taken everything out of my room and then you let me have a mattress if I behave well. You will keep and add stuff but will also take it away. I also feel like I am a dog that has pooped on the carpet and you are rubbing my nose in it but now you want me to eat it.
Anything that causes and argument because I hate arguing.

The big love busters from me to you in my opinion are:

Angry Outburst- This has been documented since �06 but not the first 11 to 12 years of marriage. I have never felt I was better after this happened. I have never felt you got what you deserved after this happened. I have never wanted to hurt your feelings. I do know that AO�s have happened and I will go to an anger management class because I do not want it to ever happen again. I want it to stop now. I want to stop arguing and stop hurting your feelings.

Independent Behavior which leads to DJ and SD. These would be things that I would plan without taking your opinion into my thoughts. I would make plans and just fit you into the schedule where it would fall. I know now and should have then known this made you feel I didn�t love you.

I make you feel like I do not love you. I do not put you first. I use to always do this but I quit.

The things I do for you start strong out of the gate but then I back off and just let it drop. Doing the Love Dare book which was 40 days of doing love dares for your wife, it made you feel like I thought you weren�t worth 40 days of dares for me.

Never say another harsh word to you or our children again.

Never say anything about your family.

Be honest and transparent with you about everything. Talk to you about everything in my life and how I feel about it and what I want to do. Discuss this with you.

Want to be with you. You will feel this when I really want to.

Treat you like I love and support you in everything.

Stop arguing and twisting our conversations around. This seems to be working by posting to you. When I am posting, I am writing directly to you which makes you feel I do not glaze over things. I do not like writing to people I do not know. I also like that you respond and everything is black and white. Neither one of us can say what the other said. It is all on paper. We read about 10 to 12 things and answered them quickly with no arguments. I had one question and we reread it and I agreed on your answer. I am the biggest offender of twisting conversations.



This is my POJA questions to you:

How would you feel about me taking a spiritual leadership role in our house? This is not a role of wives submit to your husbands. You know we use to have a partnership and I have never been �I am man hear me roar.� I have always floated through this and never stepped to be what I should be. I have not lead our children in the direction to have the foundation that they need. I want to do this through prayer, reading and studying the Bible. This would be changing my heart from the inside out.

How would you feel about use talking more about every decision in regards to our children?

How would you feel about minimizing internet usage?

How would you feel about wanting to and having UA and RC time with me every week?

How would you feel about RC time with our children?

How would you feel about staying here a few more years until our children leave for college?

How would you feel about not wanting to move to another house that we have to remodel? If we move, it would be a new or newer house that doesn�t need remodeling?

How to you feel about the smoker, sink, prep table, ect.. going with us?

How would you feel about trying not to bring up we argued �X� amount of times?

How would you feel about trying not to bring up you threatened to leave �X� amount of times?

How would you feel about trying not to bring up �You didn�t love me?�

How would you feel about not saying �How could you love me if you did these things?�

How would you feel about trying not to read any documentation from �06 to �12 that is negative?

How would you feel about transparency and honesty from the both of us? This is email, facebook, cell phones, bank accounts and paying bills.

How would you feel about writing any POJA�s you would want me to do?

How would you feel about us doing anything and everything to stop arguing?

How would you feel about me taking an anger management class because I never want to say another harsh word to you again? I will make the appointment and start ASAP.

How would you feel about me giving you 90% of me and expecting 10% in return like it was in the first 2 years of friendship and dating and 11 to 12 years of our marriage?

How would you feel about me making you feel loved and putting you first every day from this day forward? By using MB principles to recover and rebuild the love you we use to have for each other. This would also be me taking the lead in this.

I know that your intent is to protect our marriage. The things that were put on the table were for me to separate from and put you first. You want me to love you.


Through your documentation, your conscience should be clear that you could walk away without any regrets by how I have treated you the past 6 years. I can say you have given me your very best and I have taken it for granted and not appreciated the gift I had. I want to do MB with you and rebuild our relationship and love for one another. I want you to accept and feel my love for you again. You are my best friend, first and only choice and I want to be with you the rest of my life. I will have true happiness being with you in a MB principle relationship.


With saying all of this, I understand if you don�t want to do this or can�t do it. I do not want to argue anymore. I do not want to say another harsh word to you. The both of us are at our lowest points. I have caused you severe levels of internal trauma. I am truly sorry and would like to spend the rest of my life helping you heal from this.

At this point, I feel that I dig into the relationship united and move forward with you or we separate. I feel a separation will soon be followed by a divorce. I do not want to argue one more time. I would have true happiness to be with you but I would also be happy if we are not arguing. I am so unhappy where we are at this point.

Please take your time with this, pray, talk to anyone with MB. I will support your decision.
Love You and I am so sorry,

Do you see how contradictory these 2 statements are, Longhaul?

Is she supposed to keep her feelings about the house to herself because you don't like hearing it? If she does that, then how will you know when something makes her unhappy? Her negative feelings about the house are important information that you need to know. It is like getting an overdraft notice from the bank. You might not like getting the notice, but the alternative is even worse.


You have made a unilateral decision about your home that does not take her feelings into account. Otherwise known as independent behavior.

What if she told you it "withdraws love units when I hear that you think my time on the internet is excessive?"

Mel:
WE have some members who have gone through Angerbusters and I wonder if you should check into that?

Longhaul
I will check with the coach in the morning on signing up for Angry Busters. I will let you know how it goes.

Mel
The second big thing that stands out to me is that your wife clearly doesn't believe you love her. If she is going to be healed, that condition can't stand. I would sit her down and ask her SINCERELY what you are doing wrong. Or better yet, send her an email and ask her to answer you via email. That way, you avoid any potential arguing. ASK HER to give you course corrections so you are not wasting your time.

LongHaul:
How do you feel about writing me what I am doing wrong?
SM response:
I am not comfortable telling you are doing wrong. I would prefer to tell you what I need.

LongHaul:
How do you feel about giving me course corrections so that I am not wasting any time with your recovery?
SM response:
I am not comfortable giving you course corrections.

LongHaul:
How do yo feel about scheduling our UA time tomorrow afternoon for next week?
SM:
I would love to schedule our UA time for next week.

LongHaul:
To my recollection that our POJA to a job is:
SM:
I agree with the listing of the job attributes that would complement our marriage.

LongHaul:
I am asking do you have any other suggestions?
SM:
I would love to have a husband that cherishes his wife and children, treats them with respect and love, and puts them first.

Most were positive, some were duds but we made progress.

Originally Posted By: Longhaul does not want to move to another house that we have to remodel. It is not healthy for me or our relationship. I would like to make it through this and then downsize when the girls are gone.

You have made a unilateral decision about your home that does not take her feelings into account. Otherwise known as independent behavior.

If all of our arguments started when we started remodeling. I don't want to add this to the equation while we are in the other fires we are trying to put out. I feel we have enough on our plate.

What if she told you it "withdraws love units when I hear that you think my time on the internet is excessive?"

Originally Posted By: LonghaulI do not want to move to another house that we have to remodel. It is not healthy for me or our relationship. I would like to make it through this and then downsize when the girls are gone.


If all of our arguments started when we started remodeling. I don't want to add this to the equation while we are in the other fires we are trying to put out. I feel we have enough on our plate.

What if she told you it "withdraws love units when I hear that you think my time on the internet is excessive?"

That is fine that she doesn't want to tell you what you are doing wrong for now, but wants to tell you what she wants you to do. She did say you were VERY GOOD at meeting her needs when you guys aren't fighting!

I agree 100%. The issue of the house should be put on the back burner, IMO. I would ask her if that is ok for those reasons.

My point is that if she hates the house, she should be free to say that. Hopefully, you BOTH agree that the issue of the house be put off?

I believe they are.

Mel what is your response to this:
I have no problem with transparency and honesty as long as it goes both ways. I have a big problem that I do not have a job and not one dollar coming in and you opened a secret account and depleted our money in it. You told me you wouldn�t let me go hungry. Having a secret account is dishonest.

But, you KNOW she has that account, so it is not a secret. My response would be that she is not convinced yet that separation is not right around the corner since you were just discussing it.

This is a secret account that I do not have access too. Do you think it is dishonest?

If you ever make it down south and if we ever make it through this you and your husband get a free steak cooked in the man cave for helping my wife and I through this. I will give your husband a big hug because I don't touch woman. Thanks again for your input.

No, it is not dishonest or secret because you know about it. My husband has a bank account that I do not have access to, but I do know about it. In your wife's case, I think she feels very uncertain right now and thinks this might still lead to separation. Once she feels better about the situation, I bet she changes this, don't you? But I don't think she will feel reassured if you make demands.

I will take you up on that!! Thanks for the offer, friend!

As Melody says, it's not a secret account. SM opened a new account because your affair and all your (LH's) arguing have made her feel UNSAFE and FRIGHTENED. When you make your wife feel safe, she will be pleased to put the money back into your safe, happy marriage.

Your distrustful attitude towards your wife, when you have been so untrustworthy and hurtful and careless yourself, must be draining her love bank big time. Just stop it.

The person who should STOP ARGUING here is YOU.

By the way, I do see signs of progress in your attitude, I think you're getting there. Good on you.

I enjoyed yesterday with you. I know you were very tired and you�re back was hurting. We were able to get in some time with MB workbooks but I would like to do more tonight.

DD11 was told 15 to 20 times to take a shower. It was hard for me to keep quiet while you kept telling her. I would go to you and tell she is still not in the shower and was trying to let you handle it. I am happy she apologized to you for being disrespectful and not listening and obeying.

When I was in the car with them this morning, we made plans for them to have showers, homework, packed up for in the morning and in the bed by 8 p.m. I did this so they will be thinking of it all day. I will lay with them and talk for them to be asleep by 9. This will give them 9 hrs. of sleep.

How do you feel about them getting 9 to 10 hours of sleep a night?

It made me feel good that you talked to DD11 about staying with her cousin while we do our date night on Friday night. We also have a date breakfast and doing MB on Saturday morning. This makes me feel happy.

I will see you today at 12:30 for lunch. I will have you chili warmed with cornbread and sweet tea. I am looking forward to just talking with you in the car and hearing how your day went so far.
Love You,
LH

SM has not responded to any of my POJA questions that I posted. I am fine if she would print them out and just give them to me but she can post them if she likes. I just want some feedback. If it is so important for me to post for her, then I feel she should respond back to me. I am trying to put her first in everything I do. Give 90% and expect 10% in return from her.

I bring up things and she brings up things that we shouldn�t. I was telling her about reading about the types of liars in the love busters book. She told me she thought I was a born liar and she thought I beat the polygraph test. How can we move forward when these things I do are put down like this?

I sung like a canary before the lie detector about every little white lie I had told through the years. I certainly didn�t want to damage anything by not passing the lie detector for us to start moving forward. I was hoping that was the point where we could start rebuilding. I also realized I thought I was going through stress while taking it, SM was going through more stress because she was wondering who she had been married to all these years.

I called an anger management clinic yesterday. I have a book from a friend on anger management. I also ordered AngerBusters 101 on Amazon yesterday. This is the book Markos recommended in one of his post. I never want to say another harsh word to my wife or my children. I have never been happy I got mad at her, I have never thought she deserved the outburst, and I have always felt bad about hurting her feelings. Where I was going wrong was that I was not taking responsibility that I am in control of my reactions of her DJ and SD. I was wrong in ever having one angry outburst towards my family. I am in control how I react to our children not obeying and arguing with each other. I am practicing relaxing by having positive thoughts and not releasing adrenaline into my system.

Our lunch went well on Monday. We had a two hour date last night and just talked at supper. We went and walked around town just talking. Then we went to go buy her some shoes. When we are walking and talking if makes me think back when we were dating and first married. We would talk for hours. I told her I would have like to have held her hand during our walk but I would leave it up to her to grab mine. It never happened but I really had a good time with her. We have another date night Friday and Saturday morning so I am planning for it to be positive as well. I am really looking forward to spending more UA time with her.

Why didn't you hold her hand? And then tell her it was up to her?