No, they know what is going on. My Mom also emailed them and explained that she herself had seen the texts and again offered proof. WW has just told them that SHE is unhappy and wants out of the unhappy marriage. I know they are disappointed and are trying to be supportive to WW and I.

They knew that WW was going to move into new home and bring 2 boys. They had a full 2 weeks to prepare and pack for this move. YET,they chose not to bring any furniture or just enough items for WW to scrape by.?.

FIL and MIL brought JUST enough so WW could be out of the house but not be comfortable.

Do you think they are trying to send her and a message? They don't want her to feel comfortable there. My parents and WW's are two old school Italian families that have been married to each-other for over 35 years. FIL was so upset when I left after helping them move. Gave me a bear hug and started to well-up. He is a proud man who knows his daughter is not making the right decisions.

I think moving out is good right now. Everyday she lays on that air mattress, and fights that traffic each day, my "stick" will be there whacking her in the head!

FG,

Awesome job thus far.

As an attorney, I don't think the "advantage" of filing first is that necessarily that advantageous. You have your snooping in place so unless you are getting signals that she's about to file, my opinion is, you don't need to just yet.

IMO (in my opinion)....to often, filing for divorce results in divorce whereas the initiating betrayed spouse was hoping for the filing to precipitate a recovery. I believe your wife has felt neglected and unloved. Accordingly, a filing sends confirmation and announces to the world that you don't care. It gives the wayward an excuse (he ended and not me) and further helps her rationalize and justify that she is on the right path (the path out of your marriage). She immediately tell the kids that despite all those kind words your said about trying to save their family the other night...that you went right out, hired a lawyer and filed for a divorce. It doesn't matter that that's what she intended to do. The fact you did it gives her an out and the opportunity to blame you. It's also a mixed message. You've been beating the drum that you are fighting for your family and marriage and then you go and file for divorce???

I also believe that Dr. Harley advises Betrayed Husband's to allow the wayward wife do all the heavy lifting with regards to a divorce/custody case. Her recent messages to OM very much reflect that she's at her wits end. It's hard work being a wayward...trying to compartmentalize your affair AND rationalize/justify it at the same time. Most wayward wives can't go to the dry cleaners, bank and beauty shop all in the same day...let alone hire an attorney and file dissolution papers. If she hasn't seen an attorney yet....I would sweat it.


I've read some harsh words towards her parents but I also noticed you've got a great relationship with them. Rather than getting upset with them...I would strategically (Art of War) attempt to dissuade them from enabling your wife. You should meet with them and remind them of your wedding day when, I presume, your FIL (father in law) walked your wife down the aisle and "gave" her to you. Remind them about what that means and ask them to do you a favor and CHANGE THEIR MINDS about allowing your wife to move in (escape) to them. Be kind in your dealings. Assure them that no matter what happens you intend to always maintain a relationship with them as well as allowing/promoting a relationship between your children and them (strategically say this with a hint of a threat that such relationship IS, to some extent, in correlation to the respect they have for your opinions regarding what they should be doing right now). Tell them...that in your opinion...as your wife's husband (which should be the most important opinion) that them backing off "enabling" your wife IS the best support they can give their child. Assure them too...certainly, if this all results in an actual divorce...that you, at that time, won't have any say how they choose to support their daughter or not. She'll be a single women and you'd expect her parents to be there for her but RIGHT NOW...she isn't a single woman and they need to respect you and your choices.

I agree to some extent that her moving out and living with her parents isn't all that horrible. If her parents aren't agreeable to your demand that they not allow her to move in with them...perhaps you can encourage them to fabricate a delay of one month. Maybe they tell your wife that they will allow her to come in April AFTER they have a chance to fully move in and AFTER she tries to figure things out with you for a few weeks. Perhaps THEY need time to assess their role in this before allowing her to come to them. Whatever the excuse...a delay would be great. After a month or so of "Plan A" if she wants to still move out to mom and dad's perhaps they will have got some more strength to say things like "you can't move here and continue a relationship with OM...if you need space for a bit to assess things fine but we aren't going to enable your affair which is precipitating the destruction of our grandchildren's family." Then with some boundaries in place on that side she CAN move out which would enable you to eventually Plan B her. (nothing worse than seeing a situation where one needs Plan B but the couple still lives under the same roof and the wayward won't leave).

Just don't agree to her moving out. You have the right to change your mind.


As far as the kids "moving out" with her....if you can't get in laws to forbid or delay her going there...perhaps you can get wife to agree to going without the kids on overnights. She's just going for some space...some nights...she can come and get the kids and go out to dinner, shopping...whatever but until you know that this is a permanent separation why disrupt their lives to such an extent when SHE isn't absolutely certain of what she wants. Put on the "understanding husband" routine...because you do understand that she's completely confused about her life. Her rationalizations and justifications were absolutely necessary to allow her to do something so hurtful and destructive to you and your family. She needs to unravel that and since she's "no contact" with OM things should improve gradually. Frankly...she's a mess and your compassion for that may allow you to convince her to slowwwwwwww down and take some time to think about things before disrupting the children's lives completely.


Good luck
Mr. Wondering

Keep your "proof" close to your chest so to speak.

If things go south and everyone is lawyered up...your snooping could be considered illegal eavesdropping in some jurisdictions. No sense handing them the evidence they may use against you someday. If they ask you for proof...read them things you found...don't give them copies. Maintain deniability. Plus...if WW finds out what you have and how you got it...you'll lose the ability to effectively snoop.

For example...instead of saying you installed a keylogger you can say you simply overheard a phone conversation. Waywards really don't remember when and where everything occurred.

Mr. w

Thanks Mr W.

Great, clear advice. I will hold off on the D papers. Perhaps that can be my final "stick" if she turns back to OM.

I get the kids back this Sunday @ 6pm. She is going to not see them for a week so that is going to hurt WW at her core. (more "stick") During that time I will offer "carrots" to see the kids and be involved with our family. Maybe that will give some time to make deposits into her bank.

I will get an email together this PM for FIL and MIL. I will hit on all your points.

Thanks again!

".."

I think her taking the kids is an important part of the "stick". The kids are not going to be happy there. And now she has to do ALL the work including taking and picking up from school. Plus, after our talk with them yesterday that will most likely be asking mommy "why she does not want to be our family". "When can we go home?" Also, me taking care of the boys will make WW into one BIG FAT CAKE EATER. She has her man at home taking care of the boys. She can see them any time she wants. I can go do what ever I want with OM or Skank neighbor. YIPPEE!!

No thanks... My MIL is staying there also and will be pushing to R and keep things moving in the right direction.

To me...filing for divorce isn't a "stick" in Plan A. It's when you are done and decide to divorce yourself.

If your Christian or other faith...such decision could be further complicated by the fact your wife hasn't (it appears from what I've read and you've indicated) ACTUALLY committed the physically act of adultery. Absent that..you may not have an actual biblical out of your marriage. Of course, such is a personal issue for you and your minister, priest, rabbi, ect to figure out in prayful contemplation.

I also don't know if you've read the MB response to the wayward's pleas for "space" or not...but you simply offer to clear them some space in the garage or basement as "needing space" is usually just bullcrap subterfuge for needing a private place to pursue and continue an illicit affair.


Another thing...if you Inlaws don't agree to keep her out now...perhaps they'll agree that if you can prove that she's moved out so she can continue her affair at their house that THEN they WILL ask her to leave. That they won't be parties to the destruction of their grandchildren's family. Inlaws can use the carrot and stick approach too.

[btw...when my MIL was exposed to ...she immediately called OM and threatened him and directed him to end it....he did. Inlaws can and have done the right thing]

Godspeed,
Mr. W

What huge POS this OM is.

Expose this POS at work now so the OM catches some flack at work on Friday before the weekend.

Well your doing good there FL keep it up and you got awesome advice here and you seem receptive to it. Please do not overlook NG's post about preventing the kids from going with your foggy addled WW. Follow that, I regret that I didn't...

Floridaguy. The problem with not having a chat with your FIL is that he is only hearing WW side of the story and we all know what that is full of.

It important for your ILs to know that you want to recover the marriage and do NOT want your family to be broken up. Part of exposure is asking for help from important people to influence the wayward to do the right thing. That is what you need to do with FIL. Ask for his support to stop his daughter from breaking up her family. There is no good that will come from that.


Also give your WW a plan on how you will change yourself to protect her from your past wrong doings. She needs to believe that you will change.

FG, despite what you are thinking her moving out is NOT a good idea. Now that this guy is off running scared, you need to have her close for your plan A to be most effective. If you are talking reconciliation you should bring up the No contact letter and the extraordinary precautions in the next conversation. Of course at the same time you let her know you want to create a marriage better than the one you had pre-A. That you are committed to meeting her needs, so that she will love you more than ever.

What is your wife's side of the story? Has she stated why she is so unhappy? Have you identified her top emotional needs?

Dr. Harley says you need a minimum of 15 hours of time where you give each other undivided attention, to sustain a feeling of romantic love. 20-25 hours to create it. You need to work in that much time into your plan A.

I agree that getting the in-laws to pressure your wife into staying at home for the while is the best solution to the problem.

Another thought...

IF she moves to her parents...another thing to ask your inlaws is whether you are still invited to and in their home. They should be having big Italian meals and inviting the entire family over...including you. They will need to tell your wife that they are free to have anyone they choose into their home. She is a guest...not a resident.

BetrayedP is right...ideally you want to Plan A with her living with you in the family home, however, this is FAR better than her living with OM or by herself in some crappy apartment free to do as she chooses. Hopefully you can convince her parents to be parents and not enablers. They may even facilitate giving you two a lot of alone time (which was the very idea of them moving down to be near you in the first place...they wanted time with their grandkids NOT a boomerang daughter). They could have you over for dinner and suddenly...you two are outside on the deck sipping wine while the inlaws are looking after the kids inside or running the kids out for ice cream.

Mr. Wondering

edited to add: plus...even if the kids visit her and stay over...it's just a visit to the grandparents and not "mom's new residence". Also...it's a huge plus that you know for certain the kids aren't going to be exposed to OM.

Ditto.
There are some exceptions, but this situation is not one of them.

I'd be tempted to write back (to all the FB & LinkedIn contacts of his) including his direct quote (to show everyone how classy he is) plus a respose of "Get off my wife, or you may not have a di** for much longer." ...

And yeah, I'd share a copy of it with everyone in the company directory, so that they could see what a fine, principled, stand-up guy their colleague is.

But that's just me being angry for ya. Go with Mr Wondering's advice when it comes to this stuff.

It's what I would do, but you know me. You throw some garbage like that at me after messing with my wife, and I'm gonna unleash a crapstorm on your life you wouldn't freakin' believe.

And, yeah, I'm pissed off for you too. I know I couldn't in any way, shape, or form restrain myself the way you have after that response.

No...damned...way.

WW took the boys to IL's after school today. Came home and was very friendly. Talking and joking with me. No mention of OM exposure and can't confirm any contact to or from OM today.

She put the kids to bed and packed up most of her clothes. I made sure not to help in anyway. She walked right by me and said she was tired and going to bed.

And that is that...

I recieved my copy of SAA and His needs Her needs today. I will start studying and continue plan A. This sucks...

Have you read - really READ - the Plan A thread here? If you think today's situation sucks....you're in for a rude shock, dude!

Thanks NG... Losing it right now.

Florida,

Please email Dr Harley for his advice as to Pliny for divorce or not.
He does not charge for this service.
He can tell you what to do for the immediate future.
If you email him tonight he will usually reply the following day.

Losing it right now.

I feel for ya, amigo, but personally have no words to help you. But, as my Dad told me years ago, "Engineers don't know everything, but they sure as hell know where to find it!", I'd direct you to look up GJM's thread on this Board. He Plan A'd excellently, right up until the gavel came down on his divorce.

You do realize that this will be all YOUR fault Floridaguy. That is how waywards think. They see themselves as justified and nothing is their own fault.



Have you thought about writing a love letter that addresses your mistakes, your willingness to fix them and how you do not want her to leave? She can re-read it when she gets "whacked in the head."

You have to be able to look yourself in the mirror and know that you did everything you could. You are the only sane person left to fight for your kids family. I still think you need an in person chat with FIL to get his support and respect.