Okay, just a drive by post as I have no time these days, but I have been following your thread from the beginning.

You have impressed the living hell out of me with your "torpedoes be damned, full speed ahead" approach to this. Usually, the BH's here have to coddled or cajoled into doing what is necessary to give their marriage the best chance at recovery.

Operation "mutt move" was perfectly executed, and I'm willing to bet it will throw a lot more turmoil into the living arrangements over there.

From beginning to whatever ending you may have, simply well done!!

Personally, I would hire a PI to find out exactly what the newly separated WW was up to while the kids are being looked after by Dad.

ETA: You may find something that could be useful in child custody matters. Know the enemy. I know you don't want to think of her as the enemy but that is what she is when she takes your kids from you without really trying to fix the problem and keep the family together.

Another condition to recovery....affair phone bye-bye (you often have 30 days on a new contract to cancel)

How did she pay for this new phone?
Family money?
A joint credit card?

This frivolous purchase...in furtherance of her affair....might be an opportunity to shut her off financially under the pretense that she's frittering away family money on useless cell phones (when she already has one).

You go to the bank and move nearly all the joint money to an individual account and then you cancel joint credit cards.

Perhaps her father is willing to finance his daughters new lifestyle but you're not.

At the very least...perhaps you could apply for or activate/reactivate an individual credit card such that you'll have access to a card or two if and when you decide to cancel the joint cards.

Mr. W

P.S. - Until there is a divorce filed (with it's standard temporary orders requiring the parties to preserve assets and maintain the status quo) you can spend and do whatever you want with your finances.

My father in law purchased an affair phone for my ex wife during her affair also.

FLGUY, I got all caught up and I wanted to just touch on a few things. You made a mistake, and that is natural. I also did that early into my PLan A. Remember my earlier post to you? THis is going to be a long haul. As I was told early on in my thread, PLan A is Hard, Plan B is harder, and Recovery is harder still.

One of the hardest things to do during Plan A is to do it with no expectations, and to hold your tongue.

During Plan A, you are going to assume that the affair is still on, and that there is continued contact. With that assumption, you don't do anything differently. You still need to expose the OM. How are you coming with that?

Also, as MrW posted, you should post letters, etc on here for others to have input on it. MANY times, a BS has saved themselves a huge amount of stress by doing this.

Thank you MR W. We have already separated finances. She now has her own bank account and debit card. I already cut her a check for 1/2 the the checking and savings balance. After handing her the check, she handed me the debit card and I cut it up right then and there. Her name was never on the checking account. I always kept our finances in the dark because she would get upset if I discussed money. She just new the money would come in and she could take it out. As I have said before this woman is truly clueless of the world.

Scotland - thank you for checking in on me and the post. You tried to tell me how hard this would be and I did not really listen. Well I get it now...

Not watching what she is doing is helping me so much. It was like I was in a "fog" and she was a drug that I could not live without. Well this detachment feels great right now. She is free to go do what she wants and I am free to work on me and be the best dad possible. The lighthouse post by ARK keeps playing in my mind.

Right now WW is raging mad and is trying to punish me by NC. After operation "mut move" last night she called a family friend and told her that she could not watch the dog and her parents did not want the dog there and how I should be working with her for the boys not against her...

My oldest was so upset last night at bedtime. He came out crying and said he missed mom. So we decided to call WW. WW did not pick up right away and then called right back. I could tell she was outside of the club with all the noise around her. My oldest asked her when she was coming home and if he will see her in the morning. She told him that she will see him soon and then said put daddy on the phone. I could tell that she was intoxicated. She quickly snapped and asked what I was telling our boys. I responded " the truth and nothing else". She responded " we need to work together" I then respond " well then come home" She just H/U.

BE THE LIGHTHOUSE

Is she an alcoholic?

I don't think so. She drinks maybe 5 days a week. Only at ever at night.

WW has described MIL as a former alcoholic but she rarely ever drinks now. Her only brother is on his 3rd DUI. He has tried to commit suicide a few times and is a complete mess. IL's enabled him when his girlfriend gave him the boot last year. IL's let him stay in their basement even when they new he was bringing alcohol into their house.

Forgive me if I already linked this.

document document document

As in: "(date) Son said "I miss Mommy." Asked to call Mommy. Called (number) at (time) and left message. (number) minutes later, WW called and briefly spoke to son. Then WW spoke to me and I could hear noises indicating WW was at a club/bar. Her speech was slurred. She said (put it in quotes)."

Do this with all child related events. Both good bad and dull times.

"(date) sons and I went bowling."
"(date) Son #2 wet the bed at (time)."
"(date) drove sons to get haircuts. Then had ice cream."
"(date) Son#1 said "I met Mommy's friend Joe."

Who + What + When + How .... All without you surmising the motive (why). No emotional embellishments.
Use quotes when possible.
It will make sense later.

Yes. Document everything as recommended

Hi FG,
Why was your wife kept in the dark regarding your finances? And how much does she drink 5 times per week? Do you really know how much?

It sounds like her 'taker' expectations of you are:
-support her single lifestyle and new freedoms
-a modeling of co-parenting detrimental to the children's welfare, really your child care while she parties and involves herself in infidelity(s)
-indifference to her lifestyle, or no protest to her new found fun--fully support her
-doggy care
-unconditional friendship and love
-no expectation of reciprocation
-and more...


Sounds like abandonment and alienation

Well, she always had access to the checking and savings accounts, IRA / 401k. She would never show much interest. I would take care of it for her. Our finances are very solid. No issues. We are not rich but live very comfortably.

She will drink 2-3 glasses of wine when she does drink. Maybe 1-2 rum and cokes if no while in the house. I want to be clear that I VERY rarely drink. I used to smoke weed regularly but that has stopped for some time.

Could you explain the taker expectations and the abandonment and alienation. Not sure I get that. Thanks.

Documentation!!

Yes I am keeping a ledger in a free dropbox account so everything is stored on the cloud.

All texts to and from WW are also imported to the journal.

My lawyer made me promise to keep this updated each day. Thanks!

Buyers Renters Freeloaders

This is a Harley authored book. I took notes on the forum while I read it.
This linked thread is my understanding of Dr Harley's work. MY interpretation.

The second post on this linked thread has the Taker/Giver explanation.

A lot of this theory can be postponed until you are entering recovery.
But for now, you can use some of this theory, I suppose.

In Plan A, your GIVER goes into overdrive. Her ENs are attended to. Yours? Not so much.
When you seemingly get nothing back for all your Plan A efforts, your TAKER pushes his way into the situation IN ORDER TO PROTECT YOU.


We want to emphasize that your TAKER is not a bad guy. Your GIVER is not a good guy. They are equally important for a balanced life.

Which begs the question .... how much longer can you Plan A? See how this works? Plan A is stressful for your TAKER.

Did you attorney tell you to give her 1/2?

I'd have suggested 25% under the supposition that each member of the family is/was entitled to 25% of the families money and, as the guy customarily in charge of the kids money...you'd be sure to look after their 50%.

Then I'd have you look to pay MIL/FIL a small stipend for room and board of your kids.

The point is NOT to give your wayward spouse money.

Consider if she were off on a crack binge...would you have handed her 1/2 the money then???? Do you think she'd come back before blowing/smoking through ALL the money???

Bringing rock bottom up is essential.


Oh....and it's not bad that she's mad at you. Conflict is OK. Complicity in her behavior is really just enabling it.

BTW...you don't have a custody agreement right now so technically you can do whatever you want. You don't have to honor a 7 day .... 7 day agreement if you don't want to. Document her drinking habit and maybe you can go for primary custody of the kids. If you continue consenting to 50-50 you MAY BE inadvertently indicating you think she's currently a fit parent.

Then again...you may need another week where you can document her leaving the kids with her parents while she goes out drinking as what she does on her weeks off isn't as detrimental to the "best interests" test.

Mr. W

Thanks MR W.

Yes, lawyer said she was entitled to half. So I gave it to her. At-least what she perceived to be half. It really was not that much. I will admit that my wife really has no idea where our money is/was. When she started her withdrawal in November I always new in the back of my mind that I needed to start to protect my assets in case things got worse. Well they did, and I am glad that I took those cautionary steps before it was to late.

Right now I do not want full custody of the boys. They need to see their mother as much as they need to see me. That could change based on her behavior.

God forbid...but such "behavior" could possibly be a divorce/ custody petition (or response to your petition someday) claiming she's the most fit parent entitled to primary custody and you get the standard every other weekend...wednesday night "visitation".

Seeking full custody isn't the same as getting full custody. Your desire for them to see and be with their mother is a sentiment you bring to the negotiating table. Up front...if and when you file...you do so aggressively and best case scenario...you wake her up from the fog to what she could potentially lose. She may not ever hit rock bottom if you make this easy for her.

You're somewhat of a natural at this stuff.

Mr. W


GPS her car. Might be good documentaiton of her clubbing.

Have you seen these?

The Three States of Mind in a Marriage
The Giver and Taker

Sounds like her financial cluelessness was self inflicted or basically a division of labor around your house.

Drinking 2-3 drinks per day or more is typically too much for a woman in one evening. Keep an eye on this situation. She may not be able to act in your kids best interests if she maintains this sorority lifestyle.

Do your best to maintain yourself in the giver mode ---at least directly to your wife. Just know your 'taker' will rise up or surface now and then as it did the other nite when you let on you have been tracking her calls. Its self preservation. Let your taker vent here. And just acknowledge your 'taker' as I did when I listed the stuff above. (It struck me your wife has abandoned your marriage and has alienated herself from you, her husband.)

Say to your taker (yourself) you are OK and you are going to thoughtfully allow your 'giver' to be in charge for awhile. Dr Harley and Steve H emphasize this. You want to intelligently navigate and not allow your emotions to control the situation.

Several times coach Steve used the analogy of piloting a plane. Apparently its not always easy to know where you are in space when flying in certain conditions. When they teach you to fly they teach you to not trust your perceptions but instead to follow the instruments of the plane in order to safely fly. The 'plan A' and 'plan B' here are the instruments to follow.

Your wife's complaint regarding the dog drop off its telling as far as how she is politicing her own self centered cause. Probably benefits her in certain company.