Seriously Road...

This MAY be the case but most likely XUW is just a confused friend unfamiliar with the dynamics of infidelity. Remember...this is only a couple months of waywardism. Outside of FlordidaGuy's home...his wife has been seemingly pretty normal to most outside observers up until now. My wife and I can spot fogginess in about 5 seconds of speaking to someone, but the generally public just let's comments like "he's just a guy friend supporting me" and "our problems go back years" pass right by giving the wayward the benefit of the doubt (as most people do with their friends). This is especially true in a situation where it's not [yet] a physical affair. "He's just a friend" rings much truer when the issue is an emotional affair. Point is...unless UXW has been out drinking and trolling the bars for men with your wife, she is not in the same class of enabler/enemy as the neighbor.

Certainly play your cards carefully with xUW. Wonder if she had an affair on your uncle that [secretly] caused their divorce. If so...she'll be vested in buying your wife's sob story. In fact, there are now several internet forums full of supposedly former wayward spouses ready to buy any story that makes the betrayed spouse the bad guy to blame for the waywards behavior. They tend to be "nice" forums full of grace but completely lacking truth. Perhaps the key signs from UXW would be if and when she starts in trying to get you to focus on what you did to hurt the marriage (as if that makes anything WW does OK). Waywards when not escaping into fantasy land prefer to distract everyone's attention towards the REAL PROBLEM ...the crack in the woman's bathroom on Deck 4 of the Titanic while expecting all to ignore/overlook the iceberg (she's/he's just a friend).


w

Great thread to read through...


Boundaries versus Manipulation/Conrol - an open discussion

FG: Let me repeat that TR's assessment of UXW is spot on. She is aligned with the dark side (and how predictable would it be to learn that her marriage broke up over her adultery?) and nothing she says is any direct use in guiding your goals and actions.

I also would repeat that feeding her disagreement with your moral position, and fostering her support for WW is not in your best interest. Far better, when confronted with someone whose position you know is wrong, would be to isolate your active consideration of their words, but mollify them by saying, "That's very interesting. How did you arrive at that?"

UXW WAS A WW!!! And loves to go out and booze it up and the bars every other week! Not good!!

I agree.
Don't get all heavy-handed with this guy .... USE HIM.
My suggestion is ....
Only send this uncle complimentary comments about WW.
Send this uncle optimistic views about your chances for recovery.
Make every reply to him very brief.
Do not discuss adultery/affairs at all.
Certainly, do NOT engage in any debates about MB ideals.

I also wanted to add that WW's brother is in a current relationship where HE is the POSOM!! WWB contacted old girlfriend through fb and they started a EA then moved to PA. She left her BS and now lives with WWB with her 5 children. While BS pays all their bills because WWB can't hold a job.

All while he continues to drink and get DUI's. All while my IL's did nothing. They invited WWB and his new woman, and entire family with open arms. Never saying anything to his face but always behind his back.

WWB just showed up one X-mas with all new Woman and FIVE kids like it was normal. This family is so screwed up and it scares me that my children will be raised in it.

The Road was right...who knew.


If Uxw was a wayward...that makes you Uncle the former betrayed husband. Thus, he's more likely to be sympathetic to your cause.


You mentioned earlier how great your uncle and his wife get along raising their child. What a horrible example for you wife to see. Uxw is likely feeding her all sorts of crap like...
"yeah...they get upset for awhile but it blows over...just be nice and everything will turn out ok" and the big lies.."the kids will be OK" and "a divorced home is better than an unhappy one."

Yup, UXW and SN are public enemies no. 1. Ugh... no wonder WW thinks her behaviour is acceptable.

I like the advice to feed UXW and maybe even SN admiration about your wife that will get reported back to her.

e.g. To UXW: I know WW. She is the best mother and wife, I know she will do the right thing. She has always taken excellent care of me and the boys.

to SN. how are you neighbour?, we had xxx for dinner last night, we sure miss WW, she makes the best xxx. Have a good day.

Sorry you got that impression. UXW and U fight very nasty. They do not like each-other at all. Part of WW's fog babble was that "we do not have to fight like U and UXW. We need to get along for the boys"

Thanks. I will not reach out to SN but can to UXW.

Any more examples that you have for UXW would be VERY helpful. Thanks!

I sent this to UXW

Hey [UXW],The boys had a great time at diner last night with [WW] there. They were in such a better place when I put them to bed last night. [WW] is a great mom and she always took care of the boys and me. I should have some time later to call ya since the boys will be with her this PM. Thanks!

Remember, every word you say, every action you take is strategic, not reactionary.

You are a quick study.

OK, so UXW and I have texted briefly about a time to talk. She had suggested that I bring my boys over to her house tomorrow so they can plan with her son (boys and her son are best friends like brothers).

We can talk while they are playing. Her BF will be there also and he is an awesome stand up guy so it will be be nice for him to be included.

Let me know any objections to this and if a good move need strategy for discussion.

Thanks!

Stay on message when communicating (indirectly) with the enemy.


I wonder if it would be wise to slip in your ideas about parallel parenting IF your marriage end up divorced.

Because her and your Uncle don't get along...you mention that, God forbid you divorce, that you would never want that kind of relationship with your wife. That you read about a different more appropriate custody plan for high-conflict divorce situations like yours would know doubt become if wife refuses to even try to fix it. Ask her for her input on parallel parenting...knowing that she'll communicate to your wife your intent to completely disassociate with [wife] should [wife] divorce you.


Just an idea.

We have a saying here: You cannot educate a foggy wayward.

It is especially true for a wayward as deeply embedded as UXW. For her to change her view, she would have to see that a large part of her adult life has been wrong and hurtful. That won't happen.

Whatever your mission in this meeting...you will need to be super focused. This could go south fast.

Maybe drudge up a few nice memories you wouldn't mind sharing.....or maybe some nice ones with three of you, followed by a statement.. something like..... those were some good times, I know we can have many more great memories together if we work things out.

This cannot be emphasized enough.


Your message should be offering either; an open door to a new, great marriage, or a closed door - "I have no interest in being anything other than her husband. I want all of her, or none of her."

I'd bet a dollar that UXW is going to rattle off some fog logic to you - DO NOT REACT TO IT!

You should have your canned responses ready for fog logic - "That's nice, but I want to have a great marriage." "That's nice, but I have no interest in destroying my family."

Treat UXW as a proxy wayward in this regard, as if you are speaking directly to your foggy wife. Do this because everything you say will be fog-filtered and repeated.

This is awesome everybody. Need more canned responses. Like when we had the talk with the kids. Or after exposure talk. I can rinse and repeat. Great stuff. Thanks!

I received this email from MIL this AM. Have not responded.


I just wanted to let you know that if you or your Father don't come pick up [dog] by noon today, I am calling the sheriff's office. �I want to ask them if it is legal in Florida for someone to come onto my husband's and my property after dark and leave an animal on my porch without my knowledge or permission. �

I get it that this is something that you imagined you were doing to [WW] but this is not [WW's] property. �It is my husband's and mine. �

I would not send anything in writing to MIL being she is threatening to bring in the law.

I would call MIL, state that you are hurt that she would call the police on you being that you were a good SIL.

Then using a calm and nice voice tell MIL:
WW has chosen to no longer live in my home.
You took her into yours.
Well being WW no longer lives with me her dog must follow WW.
You can not take in WW dog and she is your DD.
Yet WW has left me, is banging OM, and you MIL expect me to keep WW dog.
If you were doing what WW did to me to FIL would you expect FIL to keep his cheating wife's dog.
WW, as with her affair, continues to jump first and look second.
If you can not take in WW's dog the. Then WW needs to give the dog to her OM. WW is giving everthing else to the OM.

This is the stick to the carrot and stick of plan A.
Consequences for WW's affair and those that support WW's affair.

Man UP.