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If Pepp and you are on-board with the the boys clothes exchange issue than it is a go. I will help her and maybe going through their clothes together in their room will make some deposits or bring up some special memories for WW. I will see if Mom can take them out when we do this.
You are learning nothing.
You are in plan A carrot and the stick.
The stick part is a BH never makes it easy for a WW to have her affair and break her family apart.
Why are you makng it easy for WW to continue separating?
If Pepp and you are on-board with the the boys clothes exchange issue than it is a go. I will help her and maybe going through their clothes together in their room will make some deposits or bring up some special memories for WW. I will see if Mom can take them out when we do this.
You are learning nothing.
You are in plan A carrot and the stick.
The stick part is a BH never makes it easy for a WW to have her affair and break her family apart.
Why are you makng it easy for WW to continue separating?
You do not hinder WW packing up clothes.
You do not help WW packing up clothes
Specially after 1:50 mark to the end.
Thanks Road.... Funny you posted this as I had a talk with Mom first thing this AM and I will NOT let WW take or bring clothes to MIL. You are spot on...
I plan to just tell WW that my "lawyer has insructed me not to help you in anyway take the kids from their home". I will blame the lawyer
ME: BS, 37 WW: 37 DS 7 DS 5 Married 11 Years DDay 2/4/13 EA ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13 Nuclear Expose:2/18/13 Currently in Plan A
1. I'd just like to see you get face time for Plan A...but you are supposed to see her today anyway so it's not like you aren't getting face time.
2. Instead of saying "NO" upfront get her to meet you out "to talk" and let her think you are bringing the kids clothes or something. Instead bring one old outfit and some underwear and tell her give her the excuse of the lawyer and/or the one I'm giving you below. This will give her another day to get more clothes for the kids (assuming you meet sunday evening where is she going to run and get clothes then...and you don't want her running out on you instead of staying and talking).
Another excuse....
"I've read that a separation can disrupt a child�s basic sense of security and stability. I don't think our problems should effect their stuff and we need to be conscious of the stresses they are going through too. I think it's best for them if you get them their own separate stuff for when they are away from home"
Then again...I found this in a pamphlet titled "Sharing Responsibilities after Separation" provided by the Ohio Bar Association.
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10. The residential parent is responsible for providing clothing and personal effects that the children need while with the nonresidential parent. Ordinarily the nonresidential parent does not keep a wardrobe for the children at his or her residence. These items are to be returned with the children or as soon as possible after a visit. Link
Of course, the typical separation involves the "clueless-about-clothing-for-children" husband moving away and leaving the wife in the marital home with the kids (and the washer/dryer). Also the typical "visitation" contemplated is probably just a weekend...NOT a full week.
But it would be interesting to follow this system and make your wife run clothes back and forth every other week. Save the "stick" for later because once she has clothes...then what?
Is her getting clothes, toys and all for the kids set up comfortably separately from you really the endgame you want??? Is this going to make it easier for her to eventually make this a permanent separation....divorce?
Then again...I found this in a pamphlet titled "Sharing Responsibilities after Separation" provided by the Ohio Bar Association.
Quote
10. The residential parent is responsible for providing clothing and personal effects that the children need while with the nonresidential parent. Ordinarily the nonresidential parent does not keep a wardrobe for the children at his or her residence. These items are to be returned with the children or as soon as possible after a visit. Link
I thought they had equally shared custody. Neither parent has the kids more than 50% of the time, so they take turns being the residential parent. Correct?
Just some things I found while googling "marital separation children's clothing". May be useful tidbits to have in your brain [change pronoun for your situation]. I don't necessarily agree with all the thoughts of these authors...I just want you to have strong "best interests of the children" arguments when your wife starts getting pissed off at you about your actions (changing locks, not letter her into the family home even though she's not giving you keys to MIL/FIL's house or any apartment/house she later gets, etc.). She thinks SHE is in charge. She thinks she's being kind and gracious GIVING you a 50-50 custody agreement without a fight whereas you want you both to have 100% custody. Plus...when communicating by text, email or even the phone you need to have buzz words and spend some time reading up on custody cases, separations, divorces, "best interests of the children" and your state laws (and the factors it considers for custody). Preparing for divorce on the backside...is also an important consideration.
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The parent who has moved out, typically the father, needs to accept that the original family home is no longer his residence. He must respect these new boundaries and not just come by unannounced to pick up some things. Sometimes, where there is either strong ambivalence about this decision or overwhelming guilt about hurting the children, fathers may get invited in for dinner when dropping off the children and may even end up helping to put the children to bed. This type of amicable process, while admirable, can be very confusing to the children. It intensifies their hopes for reconciliation and creates a constant repetition of the original separation. It is painful for everyone to reconnect briefly and then have to say goodbye again.
The father sometimes moves in with a friend or relative, at least temporarily. This may be financially necessary but often it is has the subtle rationale of avoiding taking on the role of the sole parent with the children. This is something most men have not been trained for and it is frequently scary. But fathers typically have a lot of untapped parenting skill that emerges in these situations and should believe in their ability to be the central parenting figure of this new family unit. They may choose to get some guidance from a parent educator if needed.
One of the primary post-separation tasks is to create two new family units, the mother and the children, the father and the children. Each unit will emerge with its own traditions and style reflective of each parent now able to "be themselves." It is important to create physical space at the new residence that belongs to each child and to have some toys, clothes, or other essentials that remain there. It is also important to find a balance between different houses, different rules and a core set of values still shared and supported by both parents. Here, too, professional help may be useful, to work out these issues, especially in high-conflict divorces, which unfortunately includes most divorces, at least for part of the time. Parenting Challenges
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Fear and worry are also common reactions among elementary school children with separating parents. The safety and security of family routines are often disrupted when parents separate, which may leave children feeling scared and insecure. Some children experience an overwhelming sense of helplessness in the face of the many changes in their lives. Younger children may even be afraid that their parents will abandon them or stop loving them. The conflict that children often witness between parents during this transition is also extremely stressful and can result in anxiety. Sometimes children at this age will talk quite openly about their concerns. However, nervous habits such as fidgeting or nail biting and physical symptoms such as stomach aches or headaches are also common. Among older children, withdrawal from friends and social activities is another sign of worry or fear.
What can parents do?
avoid conflict in the presence of children minimize disruptions in family routines tell children what changes to expect in their lives: where they will live, who will care for them and so on reassure children that you love them and will continue to take care of them allow older children some input into custody/ visitation plans but maintain ultimate responsibility for making decisions provide steady and predictable parenting set aside special time with each child encourage children to express their worries, acknowledge and validate their feelings teach children relaxation and coping skills Helping Children Cope With Separation and Divorce
Remember the parallel parenting stuff I mentioned early....it's purpose is to achieve the first item on the list about..."avoiding conflict". If you don't interact with your then ex-wife...there's nothing to be in conflict about. Finally, parallel parenting is good lesson for children to learn. Children need to understand and have modeled for them how THEY are to behave when they are adults and find themselves being abused by someone they are in a relationship with. They need learn how to develop and implement appropriate boundaries. If she divorces you, you would be doing your children a disservice if you TRIED to fake a happy relationship with her. It is not your responsibility to accept losing your wife and 50% of your time with your children with a smile. YOU MATTER TOO this isn't ALL about your wife's happiness (which she's not finding or going to find anyway...which is always easy to point out..."so I'm supposed to suck it up so you'll be happy???? Why does everyone have to suffer so you can be happy? What makes your happiness paramount??? What about my happiness, our kids happiness, does that matter??? Has any of this actually made you happy????").
Then again...I found this in a pamphlet titled "Sharing Responsibilities after Separation" provided by the Ohio Bar Association.
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10. The residential parent is responsible for providing clothing and personal effects that the children need while with the nonresidential parent. Ordinarily the nonresidential parent does not keep a wardrobe for the children at his or her residence. These items are to be returned with the children or as soon as possible after a visit. Link
I thought they had equally shared custody. Neither parent has the kids more than 50% of the time, so they take turns being the residential parent. Correct?
I don't think those definitions are written in any formal separation agreement so why not just take the title of "residential parent" yourself and call her time with the kids visitation????
She doesn't even have a home. She just texted him yesterday saying that MIL/FIL's house is not her home.
Then again...I found this in a pamphlet titled "Sharing Responsibilities after Separation" provided by the Ohio Bar Association.
Quote
10. The residential parent is responsible for providing clothing and personal effects that the children need while with the nonresidential parent. Ordinarily the nonresidential parent does not keep a wardrobe for the children at his or her residence. These items are to be returned with the children or as soon as possible after a visit. Link
I thought they had equally shared custody. Neither parent has the kids more than 50% of the time, so they take turns being the residential parent. Correct?
I don't think those definitions are written in any formal separation agreement so why not just take the title of "residential parent" yourself and call her time with the kids visitation????
She doesn't even have a home. She just texted him yesterday saying that MIL/FIL's house is not her home.
Mr. W
Since they take turns being the residential parent, I was thinking she should be responsible for providing the kids' clothes when it is her turn to be the residential parent, just as he is responsible for providing the kids' clothes when it is his turn to be the residential parent. Since the custody is equally shared, the responsibility should be equally shared.
Not sure if I should just drop them off without clothes
Please help
Floridaguy, you are documenting everything. Right?
You are doing that to protect yourself and your kids in the event that WW may not be able to pull her head out of her butt.
Is dropping your kids off with nothing...knowing that WW has nothing...is that a good strategy? Is it best for the kids? Is that what you want to document?
If you decide to send the clothes, make sure that WW knows that you DECIDED to make the gesture ...in your kids best interests....no love busters.
Everything should be a strategy. I love Mr. W. idea of taking on the role of residential custodial and acting as such even though it has not been formalized in the court. You are the rock here FG. WW is fogged.
ME: BW HIM: FWH Married 18 yrs DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
Thanks everyone. After thinking it over and talking with Mom I will bring the clothes over to WW tomorrow. Mom is packing them right now. I will also take Pepps idea and put a couple special items in their bags for them.
WW did not show today. She said she had to take FIL to airport at 3:45 am for a 6:00 am flight back up north. She came back home and over slept... Yeah right.
It was her loss becuse we had a great time.... I sent a great pic of the boys and I in our pirate gear to her and she did not reply.
I called her and we chatted for a few minutes. I asked if she wanted to meet up later and she quickly said no. I asked if she wanted to go to the strawberry festival tomorrow with the boys and she again said thanks anyway.
Hard to get her off my mind. I did a drive by of her house last night and she was home around 10pm. Atleast not with OM.
The rejection is so hard but I will just keep being the lighthouse. Maybe she will notice.
ME: BS, 37 WW: 37 DS 7 DS 5 Married 11 Years DDay 2/4/13 EA ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13 Nuclear Expose:2/18/13 Currently in Plan A
Mywifeilove had a pretty successful Plan A, separation, then Plan B, then back to Plan A then a recovery over multiple threads.
Here's around where he started...you do know how to click his name and review his entire posting history because the links in his signature line no longer work. mywifeilove thread
Also...when I was initially posting on the forum my wife, Mrs. Wondering and I shared one registered name...the_wonderings which we signed as Mr. or Mrs. Wondering as we posted. She kept the name and then changed it to Mrs. Wondering so it's a little confusing to see me signing posts under her posting name.
As I recall I had some serious Plan A posts on his theads ...especially later on when he wife started turning towards him and making him a friend behind OM's back.
You already found Mortarman. He's a personally friend on mine. After two separate divorce proceedings and custody filings (which he won primary custodial parent at each) he had all but giving up. We talked for hours about giving up and letting go....and finally out of nowhere his wife was granted the gift of repentance. As a condition of recovery mortarman and his wife went to a San Francisco Marriage Builders Weekend Conference to work on a recovery and meet Dr. Harley, Joyce, Steve and Jennifer. Amazingly, there they ended up conceiving another child and they are recovered. I do need to catch up with him...maybe I can get him stop by your thread. He was my inspiration back in 2005.
After a recent divorce in which I was awarded temporary full custody custody I can verify that documentation is king. Appear as the most stable parent.
AWESOME thread link you provided. I am only on page 10 but I can relate so much to Mywifeilove. It almost feels like It is me writting in the past. Thanks so much for finding this for me.
I read Mortarman's old posts daily. Wish he was on the site more often. Man, that guy has balls of steele. I wish I had half of his strength to fight for his family like he did.
Lastly I wanted to post another gem I found on mywifeilove's thread that i am sure to look back on when i am doubting my strength to keep going.
Mywife, if your kids were old enough to reason with you, do you think they would want you to give up? Remember there are two other people here who are very young and who are relying heavily on you right now. They can't rely on your WW since she is fogged in her current state. Just try to remember that when things seem hopeless.
I
ME: BS, 37 WW: 37 DS 7 DS 5 Married 11 Years DDay 2/4/13 EA ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13 Nuclear Expose:2/18/13 Currently in Plan A
After a recent divorce in which I was awarded temporary full custody custody I can verify that documentation is king. Appear as the most stable parent.
Thanks Jedi. I document every night. In the format that Pepp provided. I know this is critical. Thanks
ME: BS, 37 WW: 37 DS 7 DS 5 Married 11 Years DDay 2/4/13 EA ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13 Nuclear Expose:2/18/13 Currently in Plan A
I am still reading mywifeilove's thread and he seemed to go into plan B as soon as WW left the house. Shouldn't I be considering this switch also? Considering WW wants zero to do with me.
WW is expecting me to drop off boys at IL's tonight with clothes. Maybe this is not the smartest move to make. Maybe I just tell her that my lawyer has instructed that I do not take the boys there. Doing so would demonstrate that I am agreeing to her taking the boys out of their home. Same thing with the clothes. Taking the clothes would show that I agreed that she take kids from home.
I could tell WW that she can pick up the boys at home if she wants but my lawyer will not let me take them from their home.
Right now I will never be in a better position to get the most custody of the boys. But here I am, missing my best possible chance in hopes of saving my marriage. What if she is just saving her money, being nice, and getting her act together and then BAM I get served and she asks for full everything.
I am thinking to file Monday and ask for 80/20 for me. Then plan B.
ME: BS, 37 WW: 37 DS 7 DS 5 Married 11 Years DDay 2/4/13 EA ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13 Nuclear Expose:2/18/13 Currently in Plan A
