Have you thought about emailing Dr. H?

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

If high school education would be a problem in the future, Clonlara's distance schooling program charges 1000 per school year, which I think is OK.

So, just an update...still not talking but she is trying to suck me back into the game. Small questions here and there. I also woke up the other day to find several photo albums on the couch...not sure what that was about? The next day she was acting nicer. I'm guessing she finally realized I'm done?

Problem is as Pep said it's still her game. I'm just too weak to gamble on her getting custody of the kids.

I saw a 20YearHistory post: Once I really came to the mental place that I only have control over my own actions and put my sole focus on myself..the world became an easier place to exist.

Does this mean I should detatch and pursue my own life�independent behavior?

How do you do this without love busting?

Does it even matter at this point?...Maybe I need to take the Alanon approach until my kids are adults?

I emailed the Harleys maybe they'll have some insight.

Will you follow their advice if it is difficult?

Notso,

That is not what the poster meant when they said they focused on themselves. IB? Heck no. It means you focus to be the best at everything you do knowing you can only control yourself and may get nothing in return. You focus on being a great H, a great father and a great person.

Did you ever hear back from the Harleys?

I want to thank the Harley�s for answering my email but would prefer you didn�t post the link BH. I�ve already posted enough identifying info on this board and would prefer not to have my name attached as well. Their discussion of my marriage was pretty concise�I�m kind of surprised they could glean so much from the bland email I sent.

So, their advice is to stay the course, keep using MB, and find a male sounding board�to talk problems and give me encouragement. I don�t see how that will work for the next six years but who knows..right? Maybe I need to see a doc for some happy pills as I feel every day is another day I won�t get back and I�m tired of accepting the lowest common denominator. Instead of taking a bite to the crap sandwich and passing it on�I�m forced to dine on it every day.

I don�t see having a close friend happening for two reasons.
1. Military folks don�t stay around more than a few years and I�m close to retirement. I wouldn�t trust men I work around to keep my personal info close hold. Men don�t have talks like this!
2. I don�t typically have close friends�I�ve been accused of making my family my island and that�s probably true.

Looks like the few good folks here that posted to me are about all I have.

On a positive note my DW (even using DW leaves a bitter taste) is being much nicer. She tried to fake sleep and initiate SF�I wasn�t having it! I know that just begins the selfish cycle again. Looks like I�m going to be a monk for the foreseeable future.

Notso,

Anyway I (we) can help ... I'm here. I am very aware of what you're experiencing as I experienced much of it myself. As I told you in an earlier post I thought I could tough it out. I, too, sat there thinking I could just wing it until whenever. Turns out I couldn't do it. 12 months or more of pure misery really started to affect me mentally and physically.

I empathasize. It is a crappy place to be. Your choices are tougher than mine due to logistics ... but in the end you still have choices.

Any chance you can find comfort and peace knowing the next six years is for yourself and your kids? In my case I couldn't. I wanted/needed more for myself. Pushing 50 I was starting to freak out about my rotten lot in life.

Any chance you can find something that is survivable with your spouse? Take what little crumbs are sent your way instead of turning them away? Try to make lemonade?

Right now you are on a collision course. You're building more and more resentment and it'll show on the surface somewhere ... eventually everywhere. Your kids will learn things from watching you. I'm hoping they are good things but most likely they'll experience what a poor marriage looks like and begin to adjust to that as the "norm". You know where that'll get them.

I wonder why they would tell a husband in a bad marriage with an unwilling wife to do nothing...to stay, keep implementing MB, suck it up, and find a man to talk to for the next 6-ish years.

Does this mean men trying to have a good marriage with an unwilling wife should stay until the kids are gone; then move on?

Hmmmm...more to think on.

I think they are basing that on the fact that you have made a choice of what you are willing and not willing to do.

True Statement...I guess I'm just $crewed

I'm not going to agree with you 100%. Like I said I think you have options. It may help to discuss them and see if a brainstorming idea will remove the "I'm screwed" option.

Honestly, a MB marriage is NOT the typical American marriage. In fact, the typical American marriage is each person makes a misguided attempt to meet their own needs for the other person and then resorts to all the love busters when that doesn't work. Trust me. I've spent my entire life in this country and can see this happening in almost every relationship. I believe this is because Americans are taught to think individualistically and in turn become very self-centered. We are told to avoid becoming dependent on anyone else (except maybe welfare - not sure how people justify that one to themselves).

The MB program seems designed to get us to stop doing all that stuff we're taught (which might be why it's so tough for some people, depending how ingrained these habits are).

So you can tell her it is not an American marriage. It's supposed to be better than an American marriage and I think it should work with any culture.

My husband is Mexican so I think some of the bad habits were pushed on him even more. So I get how there CAN be cultural barriers. Especially when other family members get involved and don't understand why we're doing this (although I look at the quality of their marriage, or divorce, and use that to justify not listening to their stubbornness).

I will not post your radio clip.

It just helps us posters to hear what Dr. H advises you so we can guide you with his advice.

Ok�BH if you think I can get new ideas from the members on how to sustain as Mrs Harley suggested non-ending plan A. Not sure why as there is no affair� please post my clip; if you�re able.

So, question to the masses on a recent conversation and observations.

Let me know what you think. Preempt this with I�m separating soon from the military and PT hasn�t been on the top of my list but I�ve got to say it�s nice not to have sore knees, back, and shoulder joints!

DW: You really could be fat like (cousin�s husband)
Me: Yes, what do you mean?
DW: So, you don�t need to do PT?
Me: Yes, but I really don�t care and I�ve been in shape for several years and I never got SF so what�s the difference?
DW: (Angry) Everything you say pisses me off!
Me: I walked away instead of the normal fight.

Can one of my wife�s needs be PA? Over the years she likes to introduce me to friends and family with isn�t he cute but I always took it as a putdown�like a child. I�m kind of confused on this as being in shape and active never got me anywhere with her but maybe gaining weight will put me even further in the crap house.

Now next thing...My wife although she refuses to work and doesn�t clean the house; she does laundry and dinner�that�s it! So, between me and the kids we clean on occasion. Now here�s where I get confused, she expects the kids to clean (I�m totally behind) but when I clean she�s pleased but quickly turns to moody. I�ve asked if me cleaning is a LB but get no feedback. I can�t stand to live in a pigsty but is me cleaning a LB?

From the years I think her EN�s in rank order are:
IC, FS, FC, RC�.maybe fifth is PA?

I know these aren�t the traditional intimate needs but this is what she tends to gravitate to. Just to add another layer of confusion, she�s quick to tell me she loves me. None of this makes sense to me!

Hello Notso,

I assume, as predicted, she didn�t file for divorce.


To me Plan A isn�t just for Ms affected by an affair. It�s about wooing your spouse. Doing the things you should have always been doing for her. Plan A is for life in a good marriage.

As far as your PA question � I can�t answer. You�ll have to figure that one out on your own.

This is the 2nd time you�ve brought up your W�s home life and her role. A while back you said she made a statement and I never asked if you got clarity what she meant. She said her life was so hard. Did you ever ask to understand her perspective on this? Or did you jump to your own conclusions and judgments?


If she�s being honest when she tells you she loves you of course it makes sense. It means that what she needs from you to feel loved you are doing.

You�ve been here for a while. You�ve just listed what you felt were her ENs. But you�ve never listed yours. You�ve mentioned lack of SF and affection (hugs and kisses). What else?

Radio Clip of notsotuff's question

Nst,

So you�re looking for encouragement or anything that will help you sustain your M, at least until the children are grown. That�s going to be tough for us posters if you have the mindset that you�re done. Done meaning you don�t have the strength to continue to follow the MB program. You�re going to withdraw even more from your W.

I�m of the mindset you�ll drive yourself crazy and become bitter and angry. Indifference leads to depression which, mostly in men, leads to anger.

So I would like to encourage you to try. To try to not only meet your W�s needs, avoid your own lovebusters but to also continue to work with your W as best you can to get some of your needs filled.

It�s hard to understand the full context of how you got to where you are. The conversations you�ve had with her, the means by which you tried to explain to her what you�re missing in the M, etc.

Here�s a suggestion if you haven�t tried this already. Have you tried asking for one simple thing, a need to be met in a very simple way. For instance you mentioned how your W greets you when you get home �What are you doing here?�. This is a tangent but why would she say it that way? � you live there. That�s weird. Anyways I digress. Have you ever asked for something very specific that she could do that would make you happy? Something small. If you were to ask her to simply greet you when you arrived home from work with a simple �Hi honey� and give you a quick kiss or hug. Would she be willing to try?

If you two could do something as simple as that and make it routine it could be a start to new behaviors. Make that simple task a habit. Once that�s been established maybe you�d have success in asking for another.

Now while you are trying to implement that I�d like to point out something that may be helpful to you. Your last post you posted this exchange. Now maybe this was out of the ordinary for you but if this is how most of your conversations go it�s no wonder she isn�t in love with you and isn't falling all over you.

This was a pretty dysfunctional conversation and the dysfunction was yours. Your reply that you don�t care and it didn�t get you laid so why bother. I think you missed an opportunity here. You could have gotten the answer to your PA question � from her. But instead you threw out your disgust with your sex life as part of the conversation. I am not surprised she got angry � did you expect something different? In this conversation she should have walked away as she was the one trying to strike up a conversation and you took a shot at her.

DW: You really could be fat like (cousin�s husband)
Me: Yes, what do you mean?
DW: So, you don�t need to do PT?
Me: I pride myself on staying in shape. I feel good about myself and life is easier because I am. Is me being in shape something that is important to you? If I were to get fat would you love me less?