You should at some point set up a meeting for her to GIVE you the papers...you take them without comment and then Plan A from there.

She WANTS your acquiescence and signature so she'll be nice to you to manipulate you....however, you'll KNOW that and use her temporary willingness to be in your presence to Plan A her.

When push comes to shove you fall back on the old...I'm not looking at these...I'll take them to my attorney for review and get back to you. Then just delay. Maybe set up another meeting with her to seemingly deliver the documents...show up with a manilla envelope with only a document in it that you got from me (at my email address below). Don't let her open the envelope until you are gone. You just say..."after speaking with my attorney...my response is in the envelope...but let's have a pleasant few moments together...can I buy you a drink? Don't worry, at the end of our meeting ...I'll give you what you want [indicating the envelope]."


You show up looking and smelling great. A new scnet...nothing she's smelled before. You cut off the meeting short. You leave like you've got somewhere to be. Driving off in a different direction than home. A date perhaps?

When she texts you saying what the heck...you tell her to read it and let you know when she's read it in full and then you'll cooperate. If and when she does...then you say...I told you ... I don't talk divorce. I didn't lie...I've consistently told you that from the beginning of this nightmare.

You can't teach a wayward...but you can drop seeds, frustrate them and use their wants and desires against them to obtain your goals. You need facetime and she [and OM) need to know this isn't going to be easy.


I think you filing on adultery grounds absent kids is a waste of time. This woman is likely going to be willing to sign off and let you out anytime you want down the road. You don't need to get the ball rolling to get out any time soon. You are no where close to ready to date. Your feelings LIE. Just stick to doing what is right. Nobody ever regrets doing the right thing.

Mr. W

Question....

Why on earth have you not filed papers to sue the OM yet? You are very lucky that you are in a state where adultery is illegal so why are you not doing anything about that?

Where have you got with the workplace exposure??

Meeting with the lawyer next week to talk about those things.

Thanks MrW. Those are some awesome ideas. So I need to email you to get the envelope contents? heh.

Do not sign any papers. It's going to be the death knell for your M. You love this woman, you committed to her. Don't give up on your commitment just because she did.

I began the D process like you thought of doing. I regret it, but it was for tactical advantage. You don't need tactical, you need to STALL for all it's worth and Plan A your A$$ off. Mr. W has a wonderful idea. I'd follow it. My WW tries to get me to talk about the D. She gets rebuffed. I've since had Mother's Day brunch and a lunch out of my stalling, and I Plan A.

to... talk marriage. You want to talk divorce talk to my lawyer.

Realistically, OJ's WW is going to push to discuss divorce. My suggestion: Let her know that it's not going to be pretty if she decides to divorce. Be sure to let her know that you intend to countersue on the grounds of adultery, and her POSOM will be called into court to testify about his participation in the destruction of your marriage. Tell her this kindly and without a lot of emotion, but with great commitment. It is what it is. You are responding to THEIR actions. Remind her that you have no intention of giving up on your marriage. Don't lie down to let her roll over you - that's not attractive to a wayward.

So I just got some pictures back from a photoshoot. They look really good. Would it be bad to send her one of the pictures?

edit: nevermind that is probably a bad idea.

You answered your own question. Less is more right now.

Odd,

You're response and sudden wish to go to plan D (divorce) doesn't really add up.

You started this thread by saying that just two months ago your relationship was going strong and that things changed after she dove into the affair. After the discovery, you were willing to fight for the marriage by going into plan a.

But once you took all the steps to Plan A, you are now ready to call it quits.

Dr. Harley says its the prerogative of a spouse to divorce over an affair. But he also says that 65% of marriages recover from affairs. If your goal is to save your marriage, then why are you giving up? Why has your goal changed only a few weeks into Plan A? If you had decided right away upon learning about the affair that you wanted to divorce her, then no one here would be challenging your decision. But you said you wanted to save it.

Most betrayed spouses have their love banks depleted by the abuse that is inflicted upon them by their Wayward spouses. But you said it yourself: objectively you want this to work out.

As many here have said, if you let your emotions and feelings direct you then you will be a rudderless ship. You need to stick to a plan--a Marriage Builders plan.

I think your biggest obstacle right now is impatience and impulse. You feel like you have to do something always and you are perpetually restless with that which you cannot control. Re-read Zibbles post. Her/His comments were spot on.

Many marriages have recovered from the awful devastation of an affair. And those that used Dr. Harley's methods have been happier than ever.

Odd, when I was in your shoes, I felt the same you do right now. I felt nothing but contempt and anger for my wife. The only thing that kept me in Plan A was the conviction that my marriage was worth saving, and that a promise made to God and my spouse demanded me to fight for it. Emotionally I wanted to end it. Intellectually and spiritually, I wanted to save it. Today, my FWW and I are surprised the we were able to reconcile, but we are so thankful that we did.

My hopelessness comes from the fact that she is so determined to never be with me again. She has told me countless times that she is never coming back, that she thinks we're just incompatible. This is a woman that is extremely hard headed, and stubborn. My hopelessness is why I've been thinking of plan D. Apparently my WS texted a picture of OM to her sister today - NOT EVEN ASHAMED IN THE SLIGHTEST. I am just now discovering that my WS does not see or value marriage in the same way that I do, or most people do. It's like I was just some boyfriend she dumped or something.. It boggles my mind. How is exposure supposed to do anything if she isn't even embarrassed to send pictures of her OM to family members??? Talk about extreme dysfunction. She's either fogged out and crazy, or she was just never truly the woman I thought she was.

I haven't given up yet though.. Today I drafted up 4 copies of an exposure letter that I'm sending CERTIFIED mail tomorrow to her business. Included in the letter are the e-mails that OM has sent me, plus screenshots of the e-mail showing that he sent them as a representative of his company. I'm mailing them to the owner, the president, and both managers. I'm hoping it will get him and maybe even her fired.

Next week I am getting with my lawyer to talk about suing OM, and also divorce options.

What a crazy ride this has been....

Yes...if you want the document you'll need to email me. It's not that big a deal so it's no worries if you are uncomfortable doing so.


Thought of a little easier thing you may be able to do to harass the affair more immediately. Ask your lawyer about filing a restraining order against OM. See an AOA lawsuit just involves filing a complaint and then OM files an answer and it takes a year or more for discovery and then a trial to take place. If a restraining order can be sought, usually a court date can be obtained much quicker. You'll bring it in your name but asking the court to restrain him from contact with you and/or your family. Since adultery is illegal in Utah and AOA is actionable...seems that alone (together with any and all harassing emails) would be enough to get a nice conservative Utah judge to grant you an order forbidding OM from harassing and attempting "alienating" you [and your wife].

Might be a more efficient and effective way to attack the affair.


In pursuit of such, I'd also have you engage OM in some more strategic text/email wars. Say something like:

"I've been thinking more about your email the other day and how disrespectful it was for you to speak to me on behalf of my wife. You don't speak for her. Between the two of us...I am her husband and you are merely a paramour. "I" would be the one to speak for her.

As such, please be advised that you are doing her great harm. Your continued adultery is ruining her life. Despite what she's told you, up until 2 or 3 months ago we were a happy young couple attempting to get pregnant with our first child. Sure we had some struggles as most young couples do but we were absolutely in a sound, loving and normal marriage. I wish it were better than it was but it wasn't anywhere close to as bad as she's made it out to be.

Absolutely nothing good will ever result of your relationship which is based upon the deceit and hurt of others. It is soul sick and I formally request that you stop hurting me and my wife. Divorcing your cancerous wife is a huge mistake but if that's what you choose to do surely from there you can go out and find your own woman instead of trying to illegally steal one from someone else. {_wife's name__} is mine. She was given to me by her parents and God on {_wedding date__}. It is my duty to protect her. I know you hoped this would be easy but I refuse to stand idly by while you destroy her life. If you truly care about her you will realize deep down that I am twice the man you are and so much better for {wife's name} than some $___/hour loser that lies and cheats on his sick and loving wife. Go away so that we may commence work on rebuilding what you have torn asunder.


p.s. - I know this is stupid trying to educate a cheater but someone needs to educate you...straying wives always tell their paramours that they would NEVER consider getting back together with their husbands. She just doesn't want you to feel guilty. She wants you focused on her not any negative feelings about what your are doing to me and your wife. However, after an affair ends nearly every time they do attempt reconciliation with the husband of their youth. In fact, a significant majority of couples reconcile after an affair whereas the numbers are against you. 80% of affairs end in two years and only 5% make it to marriage and only 2% of those make it 5 years. Thus, I am much more likely than you to be with her two years from now. Realize also, that the primary reason most marriage don't recover is actually because the betrayed husband doesn't want to reconcile. The world is full of divorced straying wives that completely regret losing their perfectly good [but not perfect] husbands for some loser they mistakenly thought was their soul-mate. Please reconsider what you are doing to her and end the affair. The sooner the better...for her"



Hopefully OM will engage you and get angry. Ask him to meet you (and a buddy of yours) in the parking lot behind the local Kroger or local bar to talk (implying you want to beat him up or something but never saying that at all). Maybe throw in a "are you scared of me...lol" (realizing all OM are fearful of the BH's by nature...they know they deserve a butt whipping). You want to provoke him and get HIM to make actually make some idle threats because such would be good evidence for your restraining order petition. It's usually easy to do...because OM's always have to put up a brave front for their affair partner...so they will often TRY to talk tough (they just lack the commitment to follow through with anything). The more you can get him upset and documenting it while staying calm...the better. Remember too...your text messages and emails will be seen by the same judge so be smart about it. Maybe try to get him to call you (and have an app on your phone recording the phone call). OM is less likely to be strategic when talking.


Tell your attorney the most important thing is to get him to show up in court to contest the restraining order...with your wife...and for the attorney to get them on the stand and grill him (much more so than your wife). I don't know if you'll get it granted but the Judge is the law and (s)he can order whatever (s)he decides. Winning the order isn't necessary.


It's just my feeling that getting OM to end it with your wife is your best angle to bust up this affair. The more you hassle him the better. He needs to feel like you are relentless and he'll never get any peace with you around. Remember, you can't recover anything until it is busted up.


Mr. W


p.s. - this is to be a short expedition for two reasons:

1. When you fight dirty with a low-life, you need to realize that sometimes the low-life can beat you because they have much more experience being dirty rotten scoundrels. Be careful.

2. When you roll in the mud with a pig, you get dirty and the pig likes it. There's an element of this fight that OM and your wife enjoy. Your "crazy" battle feeds their rationalizations and justification as well as their entitlement. Part of her/them gets off on this. When you go to Plan B...they will miss you and this energy you may be providing their relationship.

...copies of an exposure letter that I'm sending CERTIFIED mail...

Well, better late than never......

Good advise MrW. I think I'll send him a comparable e-mail right now.

NG - I sent exposure letters to the business already, but not certified. I never got a response from them. This time I am sending them letters with evidence.

Just sent my wife a vox (walky talky app) inviting her to a party I'm having tonight. I made sure to say "no pressure either way, but I'd love to sit down and have a few beers with you and just talk". She won't reply of course, but it still felt like the right thing to do.

Invite. FULL. STOP.

Your addition weakens your stance.


Invite, then done.


"I'm having a little soiree tonight, feel free to pop in."


Bang. Done.

Thanks for the advice. I will use it next time.

I mailed the 4 letters this morning. All certified mail.

I also sent an e-mail to OM similar to MrW's. I changed the part about how much money he makes to "sex addicted loser" since I don't really know for sure how much he makes. That should get him upset

MW,

WOW! Great letter - holding the high ground, but putting scumbucket in his sordid place!

Here is how he responded to me.

"I appreciate you taking the week to do your research in order to provide me with such profound statistics and insight. I wish i would have thought about all the statistics of dating and marriage before i began dating. If i would have known that nearly half of all marriages fail, I may have never married, why risk becoming a statistic?

Although I'm being a smartass above to all the [censored] you just emailed me, understand that the rest of this email is far from exaggerative. My initial thought was, I never meant to be disrespectful to you, and I, in no way am speaking on behalf of anyone but myself. We are all adults and can speak on behalf of ourselves. That means of course you do not speak for WS either. She may speak for herself.

I'm not sure how many times it will take for you to hear that I'm not holding WS back. My door is always open. She may come and go as she pleases. Mind you, I am not a statistic. I'm a person (or as you so eloquently put it, a sex addicted loser). Therefore, let me also remind you that a marriage takes two people for it to work. Hell, I may love someone more than anything in the world, I may even be willing to lay down my life for them, but if the feeling isn't mutual, it will never work.

BS, I never intended on breaking up your marriage. I never meant to hurt you, or your family, or anyone else for that matter. I hope that you and WS may remain friends. I would hope that you and i could even be cordial. But honestly, should she choose to go back to you, I would hope that you guys are happy and things would be better than they were before.

You seem like an intelligent person. That's why it's hard for me to understand why you don't see that it's over. Everyone else seems to get it. Even if she did come back, would you trust her ever fully again? Would things just go back to normal? Would your family ever treat her the same? There are a million questions to ask, and I'm not sure anyone really knows the answers.

Nobody questions that you love her, nobody questions that you want her back. But please, be an adult, use your head and think logically, and allow everyone the chance to make their own choices. We have that right, don't we? Or is that illegal?

PS I know you're hurt and confused and only hear the advice of your parents, and maybe you're still speaking to my wife. But don't judge me or say things to me like that I'm a sex addicted loser. You don't know me. Be a man and save it for when you see me.

I ABSOLUTELY love how OM keeps admitting to his adultery to you and his involvement in breaking up a Marriage. Especially in Utah!!! Can we say dumb?

Keep this and the other GEM for your day in court!!!

Here is how I want to reply after a while:

"You're obviously very manipulative and know how to make yourself look like a victim. You're not a victim. You are a loser. You claim to love your wife and yet you cheated on her multiple times. Half your e-mail was complaining about how she wouldn't be intimate with you. Obviously sex is a HUGE deal to you. You're a loser because you would move in on someone else's wife. You're a loser because you would cheat on your wife. Sooner or later WS will realize this of you. Your puppy dog "waaaaa, my wife doesn't have sex with me waaaaa" sympathy that she feels for you will wear off. If you weren't a loser, you would have divorced her and then found someone that was single. You keep saying you don't want to destroy my marriage and you don't want to hurt people, and yet YOU KEEP SLEEPING WITH MY WIFE. Every minute you continue this affair you are selfishly destroying my marriage, and hurting people, so don't give me your bull***t about not wanting to hurt people. And the statistics I gave you were not found last week. You think I only started doing research last week? Really? Oh, and you want to be CORDIAL with me? I told you to leave my wife alone, and you spat in my face, and you want to be cordial with me? Are you serious? Are you delirious? I told your parents I wasn't mad or held any ill will against you at one point in time. Once you made it clear that you refused to leave my wife alone, that all changed, and trust me when I say this, *I AM NOT GOING AWAY*. If WS talks about me at all, you know that I am a nice guy. You know that I don't just go around throwing insults around lightly. You know that I have extreme empathy for people, and I care a whole lot about my family and friends. When it comes to you and me, I am *not* that guy. I am f*****g Heisenberg, b***h."

Edit: Perhaps I should throw the trust issue and family issues back in his face? Like how are you ever going to be able to trust her? The way your relationship started will darken your family's doorstep forever.