Here are some good clips on opposite sex friendships. I know you broke it off with your female friend/Godmother, but I thought it was a good listen.

Radio Clip on Opposite Sex Friendships
Segment #2

Also here is a clip on EPs.

Radio Clip on Extraordinary Precautions

So how's it going?

Still reading?

Hi,
Been a while since I've posted. Reading threads though.
Finally completed reading" love busters" and "his needs her needs". Just started reading " Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders".

It's been tough going and I'm getting a little frustrated. My wife (BS) and I (WS) have been trying to spend as much time as possible together. Honestly this has only amounted to about 8 hours a week and only if I include phone conversations. We have lunch twice a week for a couple hours and then talk on the phone mostly. I also apologized openly to her father...her mom still wants nothing to do with me and openly apologized to the church we attended.

More to the point last night we tried to have dinner. The plan originally was dinner and a movie but because she didn't make baby sitting arrangements the time got pushed back so we just decided to have dinner. During the course of the day prior to dinner she expressed some frustration over forgetting our daughters swimming lesson. Tried to cheer her up and encourage her that she did the right thing by attempting to make it up to our daughter by taking her shopping. Also let her know that in the future I'm here to help in anyway possible including dropping the kid (s) to their lessons.

Once we got to dinner I asked how her day was and she said frustrated to the point where she feels like crawling under a rock. Told her well then my plan tonight is to help
her feel less frustrated. I think I failed.

Asked her what was frustrating her...she initially said that she doesn't want to talk about it. I said ok but then got quiet and pensive for a few minutes because I thought it had something to do with me. She picked up on it and asked how cone my mood changed and I said well I'm just thinking whether I am the cause of her frustration. She said no and proceeded to tell me about the situation regarding her relationship with her parents. How they're not really being supportive to her. I tried telling her that maybe she should talk to them about it. She said it's impossible to get through to them. Left it there and tried to change topic by asking which restaurant she wanted to go to. Italian, Chinese or Irish. Then a girlfriend of hers called. After they spoke I asked who it was. She told me it was her girlfriend checking if she got to the restaurant ok and that she should call when she gets home. This friend has interrupted
the little time we spend together on many occasions and before our affair she would spend hours talking to her on the phone...which led to me feeling neglected. We already had such little time together with our busy lives of work and taking care of our
first daughter. I let her know that I thought it was inappropriate for her friend to be checking up on her constantly like that...something she does regularly. Guess that was wrong of me to say too because I was saying it out of frustration.

We got over that...decided to go Italian...and tried to enjoy the night together...but every topic led to her raising some issue of frustration. I felt like I was constantly trying to out fires. On our way home I just had to ask her though what was really bothering her...and she said...that she feels her life is ruined and she only has one life.

I told her that I know That i'm the cause of that feeling ( mostly) but we have am opportunity to make our lives better than it ever was before and she needs to know that I still love her very much. Guess that was wrong for me to say too because she said whenever I said something like that it just reminds her of the fact that before the affair I said I loved her but still I had an affair. I had no response. We said our goodnight's and I went home very sad.

My questions are: (1) Can someone of the same sex like a friend meet your most important emotional needs and therefore block your spouse from doing so?
(2) Do I just let time and my actions help heal bad memories?
(3) Did I not avoid love busters?( will be searching the book again for clues)

Hi HerPapaBear. Finished reading His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters. Been focusing on putting the ideas in th books and on this forum into practice. Started reading Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders yesterday.

I put up a post on a dinner experience with BS earlier. Would really like your feedback.

1 - Yes, absolutely! This is one of the key reasons that Dr. Harley recommends that spouses spend ALL of their recreational time TOGETHER.

Even when it is a SAME-SEX friend, that time spent doing recreational activities together creates a contrast effect with our spouse that makes time spent with those friends MORE ATTRACTIVE than spending time with our spouse, and that is DISASTEROUS to the marriage!

2 - Yes! But, you have to be spending the APPROPRIATE AMOUNT of time together, this means 25 hours or more each week!


3 - No clue! Your wife would know! But, that doesn't mean that digging in and studying how Love Busters occur and making sure to eliminate them completely is a waste of your time! Learning to be the source of your wife's happiness will help feed back into your #2 question!

Thanks HoldHerHand. Reminds me of the story of Craig not liking Joan's friend Bev in love busters. It's not that I don't like her friend...I am happy that she has such a good friend...I just want my wIfe to understand that when her friend interrupts the time we have to spend together it alienates me...and once her friend starts talking she tends to go on and on...even my wife admits it.

We have a safe word that we use to avoid love busters and take a step back from discussions if uncomfortable. I think though that when we use the safe word it only serves to indicate that a love buster is imminent and it makes the other partner upset anyway...

I will be asking my wife if we can have a POJA discussion about this issue...although I am afraid sometimes to speak up because as a WS I want to avoid causing more pain than I already have by having too many heavy conversations.

Ok!

Remember, I'm pointing things out to help you. Do NOT get discouraged by my posts, I do believe you are making some progress.

That being said,

I'll be back.....

Why?


Your wife is giving you an opportunity you never deserved.

She spends her days feeling betrayed and you are frustrated because of this? She's just not getting over this betrayal quick enough, isn't that what you are feeling?




She's giving you an opportunity to date her, to court her, to rekindle a romance and a chance to win her heart.


So what are you doing with this opportunity?


Are you selfishly demanding more from her than she is willing or able to offer currently? Asking for more than she can give?

Did you consider planning the babysitter?





You assumed she wanted you to take something away.


She was just expressing her raw hurt and pain.


Your job was to be compassionate and listen.....



Instead of respecting her request you picked unhappy thoughts by pouting....





yes, pouted.


Is this a pattern of yours? If so, it's not very endearing. Nor is it romantic.





You instantly became a source of unhappiness.


Do you think that's a good idea for a date?




You turned everything around in an instant and forced her to rescue - you.


I hope this isn't a habit of yours!




So you failed to recognize that you really WERE the source of her frustration. Look, she is allowing you back in her life and her parents don't agree with her choices. Her parents are frustrating her because of YOU. You destroyed their daughters life by betraying her and they think she's crazy for allowing you anywhere near her.

I don't blame them!

My In-Laws were very concerned, and had the right to be.... They picked my wife up off the floor when I left her for dead.... Same as you!

What a hero, you dredged up her unhappiness, pouted for answers, and then ignored her pain when she finally disclosed her feelings and thoughts. I guess you were just to uncomfortable with the honesty you asked of her.


You had a golden opportunity to express sincere remorse for being at the source of her pain and frustration. For being at the center of her and her parents discord. Yet you just DROPPED it.





Was this friend there for her while you were drugging it up with your ho bag?


Tread lightly here my friend, this woman has more loyalty in your wife's eyes than you will have for many years to come....




Oh good grief, now this friend of your wife's is a source of your PAST unwillingness to commit time and energy to your marriage. And maybe even an excuse for your affair.





I think I covered this already!





You poured the gas on all the fires you've mentioned thus far. Sheesh!

Again, you had to dredge up her unhappiness!


When you're adultery is the cause of her pain, it's best to stop bringing it to the surface with probing questions. Dates are meant to create new, good, fun, enjoyable memories. Yet you are destroying the opportunities.






Again, nor response.... Just DROPPED it again. Too uncomfortable!


You have got to get your head in the game.


You must make purposeful plans for your dates. Fun things that allow some time to communicate and some time to laugh and some time to forget the worries and troubles of the day.

You must purpose to avoid the land mines, not intentionally step on them to see what the response is going to be.


Do you know the first thought your wife has when she wakes up?

She thinks about how you betrayed her!


Do you know how often she thinks about the fact you betrayed her, got whacked out on drugs, left her and your family for ho bag?

She thinks about it all day!


Do you know what she thinks about when she is drifting off to sleep?

The same things!


This will occur for years until you can walk among the land mines without stepping on them intentionally.


This will happen with time and with actions.


And saying "I Love You" when she is in pain is a bonehead move you need to stop, OK!


Simple expressions of, "I'm sorry I'm the source of so much of your pain", is a good answer at times.

Saying, "I'm working to be the man you deserve", is another on at those times.

Expressing that, "I'm learning how to be different, thank you for the opportunity to show you these changes", etc. etc. etc......

Hopefully I already answered these for you.


Look, the bottom line is, you withdrew more love from her than you deposited!

I'm sure you'll have more opportunities to make deposits.


BTW,

I'm glad to see you've read the books HNHN & LBers...

Now go re-read them again.

And then again!

Micalex, if you listen to Dr. Harley's radio show frequently, it comes across that one thing he is absolutely sure of is that, under the right circumstances, if a husband sticks at it long enough and does the right things, his wife will fall in love with him.

There's a woman in my house right now who practically turns to jelly every time I touch her. She's increasingly head over heels in love with me, because I've been sticking at it a long time and learned the right things to do (and to avoid the wrong things like the plague!) Yet not long ago, she hated me. Positive actions - combined with time - are like compounding interest in the love bank account. (I totally stole this statement from HerPapaBear - who was a great help to me in learning how to make love bank deposits as a husband and avoid love bank withdrawals. You can find no better help on this site that HerPapaBear.)

If you've made severe love bank withdrawals (such as an affair) your account is in the red. Yet I assure you that Dr. Harley is correct: if you do the right things and do them long enough, your wife will fall in love with you.

If you are feeling like you are having trouble sticking with it, Dr. Harley does recommend you talk to your doctor about prescribing an antidepressant for awhile. It will help keep you rational and help keep you using your intelligence to solve the many problems you need to solve in order to recover your marriage. I did this myself several months ago when things were not going well and I was in despair. It worked pretty good. With a lot more calm I was more able to see the course of action I needed to take to fix things. It's exactly what you are being advised here: keep doing the right things, and avoiding the wrong things, for a long enough time to bring your account in your wife's love bank up from the red, to neutral, and finally past the romantic love threshold.

Listen to the radio show, too! It's free, and it's like sitting in class with Dr. Harley every day.

It's one of the most important things that kept (keeps) me going long enough to recover our marriage.

You know, I have made this mistake so, so often. Yet I have learned that if I just NEVER do this, my wife will typically talk to me later if it's something she needs me to correct. She can bring it to my attention if she wants. If she doesn't want to, asking her about it will probably be a love bank withdrawal. In some circumstances in the past as a clueless husband, I'd get better mileage out of coming here and asking, but these days if I don't know myself, it's best to wait.

Focus on making love bank deposits and avoiding withdrawals. Use whatever feedback she is willing to offer you to refine your approach. (Or improve your game, if you like sports metaphors.) The higher your balance is in her love bank, the better feedback she will offer you, I promise you. Meanwhile, there are some things that she should not talk about if the two of you want to recover, so if she seems silent or upset, respect that, and don't try to force her to bring it into the open and let you fix it.

All you need to say is: "It bothers me when you take phone calls when we are on a date."

Then, let her decide what she is going to do about it, if anything.

If she doesn't feel like stopping behavior that bothers you, then demands, disrespect, or anger on your part will just make the problem worse. And let me assure you that you must avoid saying or doing ANYTHING that your wife even PERCEIVES as demanding, disrespectful, or angry. If she perceives it that way, then it is a love bank withdrawal, and no amount of debating over whether it really IS demanding disrespectful or angry or not will change her love bank.

"I think it's inappropriate for you to do that" is a value judgment. It says there's a right and a wrong here, and you are the great moral teacher lecturing to enlighten her about what is right.

In other words, it's a disrepectful judgment.

"It bothers me when you take phone calls when we are on dates" is a statement about your feelings. It's not disrespectful at all. It doesn't say there's a right and a wrong. It just communicates information she can use to adjust her care for you - if she feels like it.

This was disrespectful, too. Unsolicited advice typically is, so it's best to avoid it entirely.

Think about it for a moment: do you think your wife has already considered this option? Do you think she's thought about talking to them? She'd already been thinking about the problem longer than you. Isn't "talk to them about it" kind of an obvious solution? Suggesting it probably looked a bit like this (I'm exaggerating): "Couldn't you just talk to them about it? This is an easy problem to solve. It's easy! Just talk to them! You sure are helpless without me to dispense my wisdom and tell you where to go." Major love bank withdrawal.

If I'd done that to my wife, she'd probably have responded "Thank you, Dr. Laura" or something else similarly sarcastic.