This just shows how far in the fog she is. I'd let her spin her own wheels and concentrate on the kids and getting them to open up and talk to you. They should be encouraged to talk to her too if they want to.

If she brings it up say: "I'm being honest with the children and encouraging them to talk to me." Then leave or change the subject.

Show her how she should be behaving with them not by lecturing but by example.

I wouldn't make any promises on your wife's behalf. That is for her to do. By all means tell the children factual things she has done ("mom is spending more time with us now") etc, but don't pledge that she is working hard when she isn't. She's still in withdrawal and coasting.

It's good to tell your kids you love them, love their mother and that you are fighting for the family on your side though. However if they are smart kids they simply won't beleive promises you make in your wife's name. If they want her assurances, they should speak to her.

Just keep talking to them, keeping it simple and truthful.

My 4 and 6 year olds went about there business like normal, even sitting on mom's lap and laughing and talking, but my 8 year old refused to even give her mom a good night kiss. I have to admit that my oldest and I have been close- I coach both her softball and her basketball teams, but I was not prepared to see her reaction. I do not want the children to pick sides, this is about us mending our family. How do I tell her that without it being like I'm trying to tell her how to feel.

I knew she would be angry with her mother, but I did not expect nor desire for her to withhold affection from her mom.

SEJ, you did the right thing. Don't tell your daughter how to feel about this. As long as she is not disrespectful to your wife, she should be left alone. Older children often realize that the cheating parent was willing to wreck their family over a big fat nothing. Your daughter is dealing with that realization. I would encourage your wife to apologize to the kids for what she has done to them.

Your wife's reaction is a sign of the fog. But telling the kids will help kill the fog, so I would not get too worried about this. Just tell your wife that her affair affected the whole family and you won't lie to the kids about the source of tension in your home. This will blow over.

What your wife did hurt your kids too. She did a terrible thing to you and your kids. Your daughter needs to work that out.

Exactly. In la-la fantsy affair world you can sleep with another man and it doesn�t hurt the kids one bit. That's because they don�t even think about the kids.

However in the real world, the kids will feel hurt and they now realise it was never their fault. So they feel allowed to show their hurt.

It's good for your kids to be allowed to show their hurt and it's good for your wife to live in the real world for a bit where there are consequences to stupid choices. I bet she never thought of how it affected you all in la-la land.

You done good by telling your children. I exposed to my SS and DS a year ago. SS wanted to love with me because of affair. Unfortunately it was nothing I could do because of the legalities. DS refuses to speak with his mother because she hurt daddy and his family. My SS was 9 and DS was 4 when I told them. Simply said it is bad for mommies to have boyfriend when they have husbands and vice versa. Showed him a pic of POSOM and told them both to call me if he comes around them.

Set your DD an example of being affectionate to WW, without trying to force her to resume normal interactions when she's not ready. You can make it clear to the kids that you're still being affectionate because you love WW and want to see the family restored, not because you've already forgotten what she did.

Encourage them to ask questions - they'll come up with some doozies!

Whenever WW tries to cast this up on you, reverse babble to her.

Example:

WW: You've ruined everything - you're so selfish!
You: Yes, having an A is very selfish. Did you hear the latest about the government shutdown?

WW: I was thinking about staying with you, but because of what YOU did, I'm finished! You just ruined everything!!!
You: You're right - adultery does ruin everything. Have you tried the new kind of cookies I just got?

Reverse babble is a response to fog that consists of 2 parts. First, you agree with the WS in a way that turns their own words back around on them, and then you toss out an innocuous distraction. Edible distractions are my favorite. With a little practice, it gets easier.

So funny you posted this, just talked to her at lunch and her words were "just when things are going well I do something like telling the kids and ruin everything."

How did you respond?

Was there any other R discussions?

You have done your part by being honest. Her head will take some time to really know how she will finally react. Let her chew on the consequences and if she talks with you about it again, just become a parrot with whichever reply you decide to choose.

Things may get Very emotional or withdrawn for a brief time. Be patient.

How are you doing on improving yourself and also your Plan A changes?

LTL

SEJ3~

You did the right thing. Truth is always the right thing. YOU didn't "ruin" anything, the affair is the culprit. Mr. W and I made the mistake of not telling our daughter of my affair because she was only 5 when it happened, it was 3 months long and we thought it didn't impact her. The more we learned from MB the more we worried about that decision. We always said we would tell her when she got older -- much older -- like in her 20s. But that was not to be.

In March of 2012, DD12 (at the time) and I were driving back from dinner out when out of the blue she asked me, "Mom, have you ever cheated on Dad?" -- She's inquisitive and often asks hypothetical questions. My heart stopped when she asked that question, but I KNEW I had to be honest with her, and once we pulled safely into our garage, I was. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do -- it was like stabbing her in the heart while looking directly into her eyes. She was rightfully devastated. I called Mr. W and he came home from work to offer support. I knew that she would want to talk to and be with him then. She felt naturally protective of her dad. For us it had been years since the time of the affair (2005), but for our DD it was like it had just happened, and she needed time to process all that goes with learning something so shocking and traumatic about someone she trusted implicitly.

She was VERY ANGRY at me. And that was a GOOD THING at her age. It would have been worse if she had not been angry at something so vile. It is morally sound for someone to demonstrate righteous anger over immorality. Anger at injustice and immorality is the proper reaction -- we validated our daughter's feelings because her instincts were dead on. I am still amazed at how clearly she saw things. She yelled this at me at the time: "Mom, I don't care that you cheated on dad, I care that you almost blew up my whole world"! Very true -- she got it -- she understood that the affair was an attack on her. Kids are self-centered. I knew that she did care about what I had done to her dad, but she was far more concerned with her world and her security -- as it is supposed to be. I have apologized many times over to our daughter for what I did to her and her dad. There have certainly been some difficult moments, but we are in a far better place now. The truth has given us the opportunity to be much more effective moral guideposts for our daughter.

You did the right thing, SEJ3 -- don't question it. When times get tough surrounding this never stop reminding yourself that the affair is what caused the damage, not the truth. Your wife will come around.

Mrs. W

I started going to a marriage counselor on my own about a year ago when I could really tell the marriage was going south. She refused to join me. Through the counseling I was able to see where I was failing my wife as a husband. I clearly was not as affectionate or willing to talk to her as much as she needed. She herself admits that I am not the man I was and that I have come a long way, but in the same breathe tells me it may be too little too late. My counselor told me that in order for a marriage to work that I need to wake up everyday and decide to be married to my wife and treat her as if I just made that decision. Because in reality you are making that decision daily. I told my counselor that both my wife and I have been in agreement with most everything in Dr. Harleys books, and she is willing to follow this program. My wife has been reading and doing the worksheets with me in HNHN, but most on here say I need to purchase SAA.

Yes.
Dr Harley would probably advise you to read Surviving an Affair and use the materials and procedures in the book.
Its very similar ; however compare it to personal illness. A person that has never had cancer abd eats and exercises for preventive measures will be on a different regime than a post op cancer patient

Affairs are like cancer.
If not properly treated the marriage will not survive

I have to say working through HNHN has been the first thing that has given me hope in my marriage in a long time. It has been the only book or advice the my wife has even considered listening to. She says she can see where the things Dr. Harley says make sense, but she has very openly disagreed with the whole exposure method. It is odd, but just as I was writing this post my wife called to say she was sorry for being so mean at lunch and that she really does love me. She seems to be all over the place, but it sure feels good to hear her say those words.

I do expect her to calm down. We have seen this play out a million times so we are not concerned. Bringing the affair out in the open like this propelled you into a new level of recovery where you are not in fierce competition with a fantasy. The fantasy with turdboy doesn't look so attractive now that she sees the stark reality of the effect on her children.

The reason she likes HNHN so much is that it blames the betrayed spouse for the affair. The reason it does that is that spouses will be awakened into taking preventative measures.

SAA places the blame where it lies: on the shoulders of the one who chose to cheat. Know why your wife cheated? It is because she has poor boundaries around men. You could have been meeting her needs to perfection and she would have still had an affair if her boundaries are poor.

SAA explains all this perfectly. It also talks about the benefits of exposure.

Exactly you just nuked fantasy land for WW. There is no way the OM can now and come back and have a smooth landing.

Exactly what did you tell your kids.

It may seem all over the place for you but for us she is just like all other waywards. It's like they're all following a script. We've seen it played out millions of times. Dr Harley talks about this in SAA. You need to get that book immediately and begin reading it with your W.


Millions may be a slight exaggeration.

I know, I get so tired of this too. The wayward has inflicted the most unbearable pain one spouse can give another but all they can talk about is how the betrayed spouse should have met their needs. While waving around a copy of HNHN. A great book and a marriage bible; but it was not written to excuse affairs.

It's a bit like stabbing your spouse and then saying you did it because they were too untidy around the house. While waving a copy of 'Ideal Home' around to prove your point.

If she accepts the teachings of SAA (including the fact that you won't help her keep any future affairs a secret either) then she will get better boundaries around men and not let them get so close. The ideal situation is for her to be faithful even if you were in a coma and unable to meet any needs at all.

When I was a BW, I was separated from my wayward husband for a year before the divorce. I never betrayed my vows during that time in spite of the fact I was living in a world full of men who viewed me as single. I never even found anybody attractive because I had learned from MB how to avoid that.

Your wife is one of the many people who is surprised to have discovered that she is capable of adultery. Capable of doing something she would never have believed of herself. That's a hard fact to face.

But it will be better when she does. We are all capable of affairs in the right circumstances and pretending we are not helps no one. The key is to never let those circumstances happen and to be always radically honest with our spouse and the people who love us. To live in the light, basically.