I am here now.

He isn't suppose to comment on my thread but I doubt he knows that.
I really was so hopeful getting and reading the books, trying to talk about things, going out for UA time etc. All of it doesn't matter though as the AO and DJ and attitude towards my kids just keeps on killing my Love Bank.


Reading his thread lead me to :
My sweet daughter is a crazy disrespectful girl (which isn't true)
He made a horrible mistake in marrying me.
He really isn't going to do anything but look stuff up on the internet.

He has been calling up others in our church who are all now pressuring me to met with them for counsel. I have had such church "counsel" in the past with my ex and would rather gouge my eyes out then listen to them.
They have already told me all I need to do is "commit" to the marriage and all will work out and sending me text that I am not a transparent person acting like Jesus. (Because of me telling Ernie I am done and then with them trying to step in and help and I refuse to meet with the church people with Ernie and I in the same room)

Elaina, the problem is your husband's angry outbursts and abuse, not your lack of commitment or your daughter's behavior.

Dr. Harley would strongly encourage you to protect yourself from such behavior until such time as your husband takes responsibility for it and eliminates it. i.e., a separation. I would tell your husband that you are very ready to commit to a relationship of extraordinary care that does not have abuse and control - i.e., a marriage. Insist that he follow the procedure Dr. Harley lays out to eliminate angry outbursts, and follow the rest of this program, or else let him know that you aren't willing to commit to that kind of existence.

Would you consider emailing Dr. Harley directly on his radio show? mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

He mentioned you wanted a divorce. Have you filed?

There is no need for you to bother to counsel with church members. The problem that needs to be solved immediately is your husband's angry outbursts -- this is something HE needs to do, not you. The only thing you need to do at this point is not tolerate such abuse from him ever again.

He must go through anger management. If he doesn't, then separate.
He must take full responsibility for his anger, and not place any blame on you or your daughter. If he doesn't, then separate.
He must eliminate his angry outbursts completely. If he doesn't, then separate.

In fact, at this point, if he has another AO at all you should separate. Don't tolerate it anymore.

In case you haven't read it yet, read this thread:
What to do with an Angry Husband

It's up to him now to prove that he will do what it takes to keep you.

I don't think we will work out.

He see's disrespect when none is taking place.
EX: Daughter forget to put dish away= he says disrespectful, claims she is doing it on purpose, try's to give her a ten minute lecture and putting her down for her awful ways.

EX: He will be talking to her about whatever... if she even says one thing -in his mind says her tone of voice or mannerism was disrespectful = he goes ballistic and has an AO at her, at me and most of the time we Honestly have no idea what he is talking about.
She has even come up smiling and told him a joke and he has freaked out saying she is being disrespectful. One time she even complimented him (but he says the way she did it was disrespectful to him)
In fact I would say if she speaks at all- disrespectful.
*He has fallen in love with that word from the books*

I don't know how to "discipline" a child for problems that do not exist. ???

I do get onto them for true disrespect, for direct disobedience, for forgetfulness etc. My kids are wonderful and I get compliments on them all the time from everyone who knows them.

If he truly finds her this horrific (I will allow ok, everyone can be different) there is NO HOPE. Her very existence seems to irritate him to no end and she has never been able to do almost anything right in his eyes. I can't fix this.

PS: Thank you both Marcos and Prisca for responding... I just saw that you did. I agree with you. I have not filed.

This is the real problem, here. When a person is having an angry outburst, they are temporarily insane. Their brain simply will not focus on solving the problem - nothing they are thinking of doing or saying will make the problem better.

When a person has learned to relax when they are frustrated, when it is an automatic habit like Dr. Harley describes, their brain will redirect the effort that went into an angry outburst and put it into problem solving. God has given us the ability to literally rewire and modify our own brains! So after he learns to do that, he can talk about the problems he is seeing and negotiate with you about how to solve them.

The problem is not a lack of commitment on your part. The problem is your husband needs to commit to having no angry outbursts, ever, for any reason.

After, not before, he eliminates his AOs. Until he does, the subject of disciplining your daughter is off the table completely.

The problem here is not your daughter.

This just doesn't work, though. No matter how committed you are, you cannot do Ernie's work for him.

Ask your church friends if they will go insist to Ernie that he must commit to no angry outbursts, ever. I guarantee you that if a couple in our church came to me and Prisca for help, we would insist on this commitment.

If you hear back that this is "unrealistic," then you will know that, unfortunately, these people are not going to be any help to you. This is very realistic, Dr. Harley did it himself and has taught many, MANY other people to do it! And it is unrealistic for them to insist on "commitment" from you but not from Ernie.


Stick to your guns on this. Dr. Harley does not counsel husbands and wives together because it leads to fighting which makes massive love bank withdrawals and makes the problem worse! There is no need for them to see the two of you together to help, and there is no need for them to lecture you on "commitment" and give him a pass for his abusive and controlling behavior. They need to stand up and protect you and your daughter!

Yes, I plan to - but I would like to have DW's input on the choice of course. Otherwise I would have already signed up today. Is this something I should just sign up for and do on my own?

I do take responsibility for the pain and discord our marriage is suffering from. I truly believe that recovery is 100% possible and have never believed there is "no hope" for us to work things out and subsequently succeed.


This is very good information. I have started this process.


I can commit to this. I have also personally committed to not saying anything negative at all to SD.

Ernie, we encourage spouses to not post on each others threads. You can read your wife's thread, but please post on your own thread.

Do not put any burden on your wife for you to take control of your anger. This is something YOU need to do. She cannot help you. YES you should be finding an anger management group and signing up today, alone. If you need help, reach out to Dr. Harley. Or markos. Both have been there.

Yes, OK.


NO, I don't place that burden on her at all - - I'm not sure if I said something that would make you think that? I DO know she wanted to have input on the program I selected... so maybe that is what you are referring to: (when I said: "I would like to have DW's input on the choice of course." = that was because she had previously expressed an interest in helping to select a course that she felt would be the most effective) :-)

We stayed up until 2 AM last night talking, it was a really nice event and I feel it was a very productive talk. I did tell her that I do not blame her or the kids, and that I accept all of the blame for our troubles. Very safe conversation and both of us brushed our teeth together, went off to bed (in separate rooms) with a smile and a good attitude. My spirits have been lifted much higher today as a result.

I am just waiting and watching what he does.

He has been reading all about AO's etc but will see how it takes effect.

He has finally told a ton of people in his life about us having problems which he would never do before.

My leaders at church burned their bridge with me bad and oh well, not gonna met with them.

Waiting, watching.....

Just letting ya know that I'm praying for you and your family. Your husband really needs to get control of his anxiety (really that's what is causing his AO if you look at it objectivly) it will take some time to conquer but he can do it. If I can do it.. And marcos can do it... So can your hubby.

I also suggested on your hubbies thread to get a bio feedback device to learn to recognize and defuse anxiety before it takes over his cognitive thinking ability. Its a great tool and Dr.harley reccomends it on his anger management segment.

MNG

So I know that my love bank is empty and so far he hasn't been angry. Great.
I just hate him. I mean I hate him so much I want him to die.
I don't want to be around him. I want him to go far away and never ever see him again.

How on earth can I ever get past this. His AO are a huge issue but there are so many other ones.

I am so stuck, I have no idea what to do. He is being nice. He is not doing any big LB's specifically right now.

Why is it the longer I stay the more I hate myself for staying too.
I still don't feel like anything has changed except now he is reading all about AO and not having them. Great Step 1.

Prica.... did you go through this? How do you live through it?

That is a great step 1. He will also need to eliminate all demands and disrespect on his part. I'm hoping his reading is in the book Love Busters and that he's going through all the material in that book.

Afterward, he will need to build a new marriage with you that makes you (and him) happy - he will need to meet your emotional needs. He will need to carve enough time out of his week to do this.


Yes, she absolutely hated me. This is the way the love bank works. There are "thresholds." If you get above the top threshold, the way you feel toward someone is you are in love with them. Below that is liking them, neutral, dislike, and hatred. It will take a LOT of love bank deposits to move from hatred to in love. And it is his job to do - not your job to change your feelings. Let your feelings be what they are, and give him the information he needs to make deposits so that he can change the way you feel about him.

It will be very helpful if the two of you will listen to this daily show together:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

Yes, I went through that. I hated markos, and it took him quite awhile to make enough love bank deposits so that I could feel different.

I got through it by waiting and watching. I allowed him to make deposits, even though I hated him and didn't see any point. I decided I'd give him the chance. I also kept silently preparing for a more permanent separation or divorce -- he knew that if he ever had an AO again, I was done.

The ball is in your husband's court right now. It's up to him to make lovebank deposits and to eliminate the AOs and DJs so that his deposits stick. The only thing you need to do is to allow him the time to make those deposits (UA).

I assure you that once he has eliminated his AOs and DJs and has made enough deposits so that you love him, the other issues will be much easier to overcome.

Thank you for taking the time to write me back. :-) I do really appreciate it.Hearing that you went through it does help. It can get better as long as he does the work.


He is reading the AM material which does have some good things in it and so far it seems to be working. He is reading other Marriage material some. We have agreed on an older wonderful couple for "accountability" partners on him completing the AM course and is making progress. This is all the good stuff.

For the other:

He won't read Dr. Harley materials. The last I mentioned it, he said now was not the time to push him(Dr H)onto him. He doesn't feel like the forum or the Dr. have helped him that much so far.
He hasn't said he won't listen to the radio station, but he never has so far. I have been pretty much barred from mentioning MB or Dr. Harley.

This part just honestly makes me want to pack my bags and leave. Even with all the work on AM, it isn't enough. I want a partnership and romantic safe relationship. He claims he wants the same but told me there are more than just one mans way to have it.
I seriously don't know how to proceed with this information. He still uses words like POJA and UA etc....

He feels it is disrespectful if I disagree with that opinion.

We also had a bit of a "I need to tell you LB are going on" session that he had with me. He is resentful my life is so easy and I "should" do more around the house and he is mad that I get to spend special time with my kids-for FC.

He has said this before many times. Me homeschooling 3 kids ( I home school a child who is not even my own), having a toddler, a very high needs child, taking care of the house and all the other things I do is nothing to him and "easy".


I am going off on a tangent. Conversations like that just make me hopeless and full of hate. It came after I had just had a horrible and busy day and was emotionally drained, glad it was relaxing/bed time & He came in and felt like he hammered me.

Am I crazy to think that unless he totally adopts MB we are doomed?
I am just honestly not wanting to bother with a relationship that isn't MB focused -chasing my tail.
I want us both to be happy.... this is the only path I see that happening.

MB isn't just one man's way of doing things, though, is it? The important part is that YOU want a marriage with MB principles. Before starting the program, there is an agreement that both spouses sign about eliminating Lovebusters and working on meeting needs. Essentially he's not signing it and choosing his way of doing things. The main question is "is it working?" The answer is apparently "no". He needs to consider your feelings in order for your marriage to work. All he did with that session of telling you that not doing what he thinks you should do is actually a lovebuster was to use the terminology of the program to make a demand and make you feel bad to boot.

We can encourage you to give it more time, but only if he is working on eliminating all the Lovebusters, not just one. And of course, we can encourage you to eliminate yours no matter how he treats you, but don't stay too long with him if he continues his while you've shown you've eliminated yours.

Elaina, the problem with a lot of that other marriage material is they ignore a lot of the important things.

Here's one fantastic example:

Romantic Love: Is it a Realistic Goal for Marriage Therapy?

Most Christian marriage material I know pushes the viewpoint that romantic love fades in marriage after a couple of years and then the goal is to just be faithful. They teach that you aren't supposed to get your needs met by each other and teach coping strategies for that like having independent friends and activities. They cloak it up with religious language like "sacrifice" and "finding your all in God."

The problem is all of this stuff leads to UNHAPPY marriages. And it's not Biblical: the Bible teaches that husbands and wives should please each other.

This is just one of many examples. That's why nowadays I advise people to avoid that other material like the plague. You never know what crazy ideas people have.

Really, trying to achieve happiness by trying to eradicate your needs is Buddhism. It's an eastern religious philosophy. I find it so bizarre that I hear it expressed by Christians so often. Dr. Harley's approach is a Christian approach that acknowledges that God made human beings with needs and that the fulfillment of those needs in marriage is a gift from God which should be accepted with thanksgiving, not denied.