MelodyLane, to clarify, would you recommend finalizing the restraining order as opposed to doing a civil restraint or completely removing the RO and then fighting for custody?

I have no idea. Whatever will best protect your children and protect you from her assaults. Since you don't have the money to fight for custody I tend to think it would be better to finalize the RO since it is more immediate. That being said, I am no legal expert.

I understand. Thanks

Jedi: In the article to which you referred, Dr. Harley used the term to describe the negative effect of the child's behavior on the spouses' feelings of romantic love for each other. Dr. Harley didn't use the term to describe the effect on the parent/child relationship; he used the term to describe the effect on the parents' romantic relationship. Do you see the distinction? Dr. Harley was explaining that the child's behavior was ruining the parents' feelings of romantic love for each other; that's why Dr. Harley referred to it as a "lovebuster."

Sorry to start an agrgument on love busters and childre. Maybe love busting isn't the proper term but I was referring to behaviors or actions on my parents part that negatively impact healthy emotional growth of children. Any thoughts on how to communicate with my parents about my concerns, whether or not we actually move in with them? They will obviously be a part of their lives anyway.

Sorry to get sidetracked! Your description of your parents reminds me of my own parents. I couldn't handle living with my parents for any period of time, and I know my kids couldn't either... What about your brothers? Do you have an unmarried sibling that you and your kids could stay with?

I don't talk to my brothers, both married and have kids. There are issues with them, probably because of my parents. Even if I was granted custody in the final restraining order, in order to move out of state the judge would require further court dates to discuss custody before I request permission to move out of state.

Actually, despite our issues my one sister in law ad told my parents (I have not spoken with her directly for a couple of years) that she is very adamant about my kids being in their home state, which is not the one we are in now. I sould probably talk to her. they have four kids, two of which are about the ages of mine.

Whould you rather have done an RO. If so, why?

Because yhe police are doing all the work for you.
And they enforce their orders more than civil orders.

I am preparing for my RO hearing and it is crazy but I am still questioning a tiny bit going forward with finalizing the RO. I know this sounds crazy but I guess I have some fear of totally losing WW love and losing all chance of recovering marriage. Not sure yet if the judge wil approve finalr RO but if he does I will only be able to have contact with WW via a sisngle method and strictly to communicate about the kids. With this communication barrier would it ever be possible for her to let me know if she does want to end contact with OM (she has still been contacting him, if not meeting up with him)? Am I crazy to even want that at this point, or should I just give up with her?

Keep the ro. It is your best chane to protect your kids and yourself. You may not get another chance as good

While it may make recovering your marriage harder, the prospects of that are low anyway

It will help the prospects of recovering from the hell your living now

What does DD stand for?

Dear daughter

I faced similar concerns.
Why do you think you are afraid of loosinf her love?
She is having an affair. That's not showing love towards her.
All you are doing is allowing her to face the natural consequences of her actions: if she chooses to assault someone, the state takes steps to protect that person from her uncontrollable behavior.

She can turn this around but its up to her. Giving her a pass will not help her or your child

I had my FRO hearing yesterday. I was representing myself, as legal aid attorney can only counsel me, not represent in court. WW lawyer came to me before court to propose civil restraint, as expected. I requested an adjournment to consider the civil restraint. I am waiting to hear back from her lawyer on specific proposal for terms of civil restraint.

I requested custody and supervised visitation but judge would not change that yesterday, saying it would be addressed at the next hearing in ten days, and because child protective services is involved. Judge did clarify clear parenting times, as I brought up concern about wife having kids overnight (citing that their belongings, food and school materials are all at my house), though I failed to mention any information about the A and OM (stupid). She gets them for two to three hours the next few days and I�ll have them from Sunday night through Friday morning after Thanksgiving. I talked to my sister in law (my brothers wife) and exposed everything to her. I will be taking the kids there for Thanksgiving, though I have not mentioned his to the kids yet. I think they are still expecting t go to mother in law�s house as we were planning before exposure and assault. My wife will have kids all day Friday after Thanksgiving, but I�ll get them back that evening.

I spoke with WW today reiterating that to have any negotiations that her relationship with OM must end and that she have no contact with him. She said that she has not and will not have him around children the assault. This was confirmed by my kids, though they did say they heard her talking to OM on phone. From her cell phone call records I can tell that she has been calling OM daily for extended periods of time. I am sure she�s texting to though I don�t have records of texts. She said that as a result of exposure there was a blowup in OM family and he�s been disinvited to Thanksgiving, etc. Too bad, so sad.

She says she thinks that I am not looking out for the best interests of the kids in not letting her have them overnight. She had them for a few hours last night and the transition back to me went horribly. My son did not want to get out of the car and would not let go of the seatbelt. After 30 min. of us both trying to get him out she was able to bring him to door of my apartment, where son still did not want her to leave. I told her that she should just go when I closed the door so the police would not see, since it is supposed to be curbside dropoff. I actually let her come in to lay down with him in bed to try to put him to sleep! She was inside for about 5-10 min. unsuccessful at getting him to sleep in his distraught state. She eventually left and he calmed down, eventually falling asleep crying for mommy.

Today I took my son with me to my substance abuse evaluation and to a lawyer consultation (while he played in another room). He did not want to go with my mother in law while I went to my appointment, even though she agreed to watch him. Tonight�s bedtime was uneventful. It was the first night in a long time that he did not even mention mommy or ask to call her. He was calm all night.

I am still going back and forth about the civil restraint vs. final RO. I�m sure that her proposal will not be in my best interest, and I have not yet sent her attorney a proposal of my own.

Don't send him any proposal.
My attorneys standard operating procedure is to ignore offers from other attorneys if they arent in your best interest.

At this point, I suggest you email Dr Harley for advice on how to proceed.

You should document everything.
Also keep a recorder on you at all times.

As conflict develops in her affair, she will start having angry ou tbursts with her affair partner!

And I would not help her at the curbside.
Let her fight with the son.
Stick to the rules.
These arr choices she made

Do not give up your position. You are in the drivers seat and can control the outcome for your kids sake.
Proceed with the hearing adn RO, you got played by the attorney.

Since you are representing yourself, you are at an extreme disadvantage.
Attorneys know the judges, the clerks, the stenographers, these all work against the pro se litigant.
They probably wont even send you a proposal, or it will ask for the moon.

Search for fathers rights groups in your area.
They can give you advice on fighting in the courts