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"Do you have any suggestions about how to work his ego up?"

Yes, he can get a job and build some self esteem. Telling him some cute, but insincere, words will not make him feel better about himself. As far a I see, he has nothing to feel good about. He can change that.

And he might also start supporting his sister by refusing t support her when she behaves in reckless and self destructive manners. He is not a supporter but an enabler. That is not love.

What about the wife of his sisters OM? Have you and your husband informed this poor woman about the affair?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Thanks MelodyLane,

Yes I know, getting a job will do good, but I'm not ready to let him get an indenpendent activity right now. His A took place at school, we are working on EP's right now.

About his sister, yes I've told him that he needs to talk to her about me not being on the birth, and giving her the reasons, her own A. We are working on that. I'm thinking of writing her a letter, don't think I can talk to her in person.

As far as the OM's wife, I was looking on FB during the weekend to find some info, but found none. Will work harder on that.


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We are also going on a vacation in three more weeks, once we are back he can start looking for a job.


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Originally Posted By: Alada

Yes I know, getting a job will do good, but I'm not ready to let him get an indenpendent activity right now. His A took place at school, we are working on EP's right now.


Alada, that is good that you are thinking along these lines. Any jobs that he looks into should complement your marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: Alada
I'm the breadwinner at home, I have a Ph.D. and he was on his way to get a college degree when he got into the A. He desperately needs to feel like he is supporting his family, if not the only breadwinner, at least contribute something. But right now that is not possible, he is a SAHD. His number one EN is admiration, and anything I say to him falls on deaf ears, since he does not feel adequate enough.

Do you have any suggestions about how to work his ego up?
I think I might have a suggestion.

So you know where I am coming from, I am a SAHD. I am the caregiver for my adult autistic son. I hold a PhD as well, and am now retired. Comparing my work career with what I am doing now, I can tell you in all honesty that work was easier. I never realized just how much rest I got at work until I was home all the time being kept so busy that it takes me half a day to get around to responding to a posting like this.

Admiration needs to be sincere. That is really a tough thing to come by in the aftermath of an affair. Yet, there are things that are genuine items for which you could be expressing admiration. The most obvious one is how his efforts support your career. When you are married, your career really becomes "our" career. That is why alimony exists, because the supporting spouse really deserves a cut of the working spouses salary in recognition of the contribution they made. I suggest starting there. Make certain that he understands that you regard your life together as a team effort, for which his contribution is essential and admired.


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Thanks so much for sharing your point of view MrEureka, and that is exactly the argument that I have been using for years with him. And is not only an argument, is really true.

My work implies field work, and FWH always comes with me, drives me around and does the hard job, driving offroad and chasing/capturing deer. So really, I would feel that it would be easy for him to see how all my successes are actually ours.

But sadly, FWH does not think so.

He supported me all through my doctoral years, drove me around for research, stayed home with the girls when I needed to attend conferences, etc, etc. I'm sure you know what I'm saying. But again, this is not enough for FWH, he literally needs to bring money home in order to feel admired. For instance we have a new truck, that he drives. Apparently it is humiliating for him to drive it, since everyone at the university (when he was attending) asked him who put gas in it. Saying his wife was putting gas on the truck to a bunch of the college students is too humiliating for him. I think , the fact that he needs so badly to bring money home, is cultural

I asked him, what if you do get a job, and do half as much money as I do, or even less. Would that be enough to satisfy your necessity for admiration. He said so, but I really doubt it.

In the past, I have tried complementing him for the way he drives, for all his hard work, for his navigation skills offroad, for his mechanical skills, for his leadership on the field... but aparently that is not enough for him.

We used to live in the States, and he worked part time. When we moved back to Mexico is when the issues began about him not working. I have a feeling is mostly becuase he feels judged by people, specially his family.


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I see that there are two different sources that your husband seeks admiration from. There is the admiration he gets from you, which you need to persistently supply even if he seems to shrug it off, and there is the admiration he wants from others. Admiration supplied by others is not something he should be seeking so much, because this amounts to having one's ENs met outside of marriage. That is as bad as seeking intimate conversation outside of marriage. If it is supplied by an OS person, then he is off on another affair. In a healthy marriage, your admiration should be sufficient for him.


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Yes MrEureka that is what I think as well, maybe I need to be more consistent in giving him sincere compliments.

I have neglected that aspect, since as you say he shrugs most of my compliments, I just stopped giving them. Maybe he was already in the whithdraw phase and thus he was shrugging my compliments. I need to learn different ways to compliment him effectively.

On another note, we went to a very confy coffee shop last night and we talked about his sister.

A few days ago, I wrote a letter to his sister asking her to stop her relationship and explaining her how damageful FWH's affair was to all of us. I showed the letter to FWH and opened the door for a discussion about the topic. I was happily surprised by what FWH had to say about the letter and his desires to help his sister. He talked about how he did not wish his siter to go on with this relationship, he now understands how much damage one can do not only to the people around you, but also to himself. I see how much he has grown after going through this challenge, he is so much mature and considerate about other's feelings. He is not totally done with the changes he (we) need to make, but he is totally in the right path.

He is now determined to help his sitster out of this relationship. We are going to re-write the letter as to make it from both of us, and we are giving her the letter very soon. We are also visiting his older sister who lives in the states, talk to her and see if the wayward sister can move with her while she breaks from her A.


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Good job, Alada!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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That's great Alada.


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So once, again I'm asking for help.

We were talking about how to finish the sister's a, but we need to have a plan.

Here is a bit of background. OM has a family with three teenagers. OM has been with wayward sister in law for almost 9 yrs. During this time they had one kid and they are expecting their second right now. She is due in about three more weeks. OM's wife probably doesn't know about this current child, she does know about the first one.

Sis in law and OM meet at work but they have not worked together for more than 5 years now. I'm assuming they meet at motels or such, but I have no idea.

Apparently her sisters have talked to her, but she is not willing to leave OM. OM calls her first thing in the morning and visit her/kid at least once a week. OM offers a ridiculous small financial support.

My bets are she is just going to ignore the letter we are about to send her and go her not so merry way with OM. We need to force her, but how do we do it.

Here is what we are thinking on doing.

Erase her FB accout, take her cell phone and change it and not allow this man into the house. Ideally she would go elsewhere, but I'm afraid we are going to have to force her, as in carry her somewhere else. Remember she is pregnant, so I'm also thinking about her baby.

We do need to let OM's wife know about this situation, but we have no proof right now that the baby is OM's other than our word. Do we need to take pictures? GPS? What do you suggest?

Another problem is sister's mom, I'm very warry of her support. She has enabled this a,and I'm not sure she would be supportive, how do we get her on board.

I'm specially afraid of the first NC weeks. What are your suggestions?


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While I understand how you feel on this issue, there's a very, very important concept to MarriageBuilders -- and life -- that you do not address above.

You cannot force anyone to do anything. You can only enforce your own boundaries, and take your own actions.

So the question becomes, "What can you actually do?" Physically abducting someone is illegal, no matter how well-intentioned!

* If you are supporting her in some way, stop all such support until/unless she leaves the OM.
* If OMW is not aware of the second child, provide what proof you can of the ongoing affair and child's provenance to her.
* Other brainstorms

You have some leverage if she's staying with you, but that does not include things like "erasing her account" (don't step into that legal mess), "taking her cell phone" (unless you are the actual owner of it and the related account), or "carry[ing] her somewhere else".

Enforcing your boundaries cannot and does not include forcing those on other people. Her life is her life, and your only appropriate adult boundary is to not allow her into yours. If she's staying with you but has no lease to do so, putting her stuff on the curb and changing all your locks is enforcing a boundary. Physically dragging her somewhere else or seizing/destroying her possessions, however, is NOT.


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Thanks for the reallity check DnM, I'm guessing our only hope is that she can see what she is actually doing to herself and her family and decides to stop.

She is not living with us, she is living at her mom's. She is not working, her older sister is the breadwinner, so they are supporting her.

Will work on getting evidence and actually finding a way to contact OMW.


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Wayward extended-family members are toxic to a couple in recovery. Your first concern needs to be your own marriage.

So what is the course of action that best protects your own marriage? As harsh as it may seem, you should plan B this SIL. As a couple, write a letter that states that as long as she is involved in an active affair, you will have nothing to do with her. Then shut her out of your life and concentrate on your own marriage.


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Alada, it is real simple: just cut the sister out of your lives. Inform the OMs wife of the affair. Tell the rest of your family and then just back away. Have nothing to do with her. And I would make your husbands whole family knows why.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: Alada
Thanks for the reallity check DnM, I'm guessing our only hope is that she can see what she is actually doing to herself and her family and decides to stop.

She is not living with us, she is living at her mom's. She is not working, her older sister is the breadwinner, so they are supporting her.

Will work on getting evidence and actually finding a way to contact OMW.


Does the sister say she is having an affair with this guy? If so, that is your evidence. Just call her or write her and tell her about the affair and give her your SIL's contact information.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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MrEureka and MelodyLane, that was one of the feelings I had as DH and I were talking last night. I don't have time or energy to invest outside my marriage right now, but feel that is important for FWH. Specially since he feels I judge and not help his family.

What DnM said realy shine a light on me, it would be a battle to force her. We can only send her the letter and inform OMW, the rest is on her.

MelodyLane.. wayward sister has not said so in front of me, it's an aloud secret.



I want to share another piece to this puzzle. I have been hesitant to touch this, since it might be tricky for some.

OW has a physical disability, and is a trigger right now for me. A few weeks ago I saw a lady with exactly the same disability, it was so hard on me. I mean what are the chances of it... She has a stump hand. I can't help but feel triggered when I see someone with this disability, I try to avoid people like this and I'm feeling remorse about it. Worse is that the trigger is now extending to other disabilities as well. What to do about this?


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Originally Posted By: Alada


MelodyLane.. wayward sister has not said so in front of me, it's an aloud secret.


Alada, since this is common knowledge, I would tell the wife what you know. Didn't you say the OM visits her?

I am not sure how to answer your question about triggers. Maybe you are overthinking it? I don't see any problems there. You will have triggers, that is just a natural consequence of a tragedy. They will fade in time.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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#2768385 11/27/13 03:28 PM
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I wanted to make this into a separate post, but feel free to move it if is not ok to do so.

As we are working in recovery I found SF is number 3 on my FWH's EN list. And for me, it was not among the first five, but for recovery I feel it has been essential, maybe I would say 2.

However, we practice Natural Family planning, which ask us to abstain during our most fertile time, if we are postponing pregnancy. As some of you are aware, the most fertile time, is also the time with the highest libido for women.

During our marriage we have struggled with this, as in me holding my sexual desire during the most fertile time, and thus having a low libido the rest of the month. It turns into a frustrated husband and a recentfull wife. In fact, our last baby was a product of this case, we were not able to abstain and thus a baby came nine months later. Now, with the return of my fertility I find myself in the same position again.

Have any of you had any experience with this? We've read about doing other intimate activites, and we have tried but they are not fullfilling, specially now that we are working on recovery. What do you think?


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Yes, I have experience with that. It was extremely depressing because, as you say, a woman's libido is highest during the fertile time.

Instead of using a birth control method that neither of you are happy with, I suggest you try to find one that you can both be happy with.


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