Where to start? Just returned from our mini vacation, wow we had a great time. This was something we needed, the time together was great! My favorite part of the trip was something my wife said to me, she said "I want you to know I recognize how strong you have been and how hard you have worked at keeping our family together through this horrible thing I did."

I have to say, for awhile I didn't think she saw anything I was doing to try and make our relationship work. It felt really good to have her acknowledge me for holding things together while she was deep in the fog.

And if you are wondering YES the SF was amazing, so much so I need a break, 4 days in a row, more than once a couple of days. Who is this woman? Hope I can keep up.

Lol, and you were dubious weren't you about actions affecting her feelings which would ultimately bring her drive back?

Nice! I'm glad to hear things are going swell.

SE,
I'm happy to see things are moving along in the right direction. Keep up the good work.

I do want to caution you that recovery is a marathon and not a sprint. You are on a roller coaster and along with the highs there will be lows. I can almost guarantee you that sometime in the near future things will get bad again. Prepare yourself for that and take it for what it is. A low on the recovery process. Don't make any permanent decisions one way or the other based on short term results. You are here for the long haul.

Congratulations again.

Only 3 months out from Dday myself, but that advice is key. It's great to have her on your side. You may both experience these "lows" at different times. Prop each other up. You've done great so far.

One thing I would caution though...I know it feels good that she acknowledges this "horrible thing she did", but it's best to not bring it up again. Either of you. You're in too good a place to bring up mistakes of the past and it seems you had all of your questions answered.

Can't wait to hear of your continued success.

I have to comment on the �don�t do anything permanent� advice. On the surface, it sounds like it makes sense, but like so many things associated with infidelity, it can be taken the wrong way.

There are several levels at which I think this is not good. For most couples, breakup and divorce are the worst outcomes of infidelity. The costs, both emotional and financial, are enormous. So, what is the potential cost of the proposed �permanent decision�? Maybe $10,000? That�s nothing compared to what is going to happen to you in the divorce.

Yet look at the message that you are sending to your spouse by avoiding the decision. You are telling them that you are not fully into the recovery. You want to hedge your bets, just in case. You are more interested in protecting yourself than in recovering the marriage.

The most common �permanent decision� is to quit jobs, pull up roots, and move. Yet of all the possible things to do in recovery, moving is one the most successful. People willing to go to such lengths prove to each other that their marriage is important. To be unwilling to make this commitment signals a probable false recovery.

Commitment to recovery needs to be a 100% on the part of both spouses. You are going to have to take some chances. Don�t let fear cause you to fail.

Need advice. My wife is trying to do too much. She wants to make sure lunch is on the table when I get home for lunch, dinner on the table when I get home in the evening talking about how important it is to stick to the schedule we set on Sunday for UA. Making sure SF is to my satisfaction etc. When I ask what I can do for her she says I am taking care of all her needs.

If this sounds like we are doing great, I disagree, I know my wife and she is making herself a martyr and asking for nothing in return. I can see the stress she is putting on herself for what reason I do not know. She has taken my list of EN's and is going to extreme to meet them.

I have tried to discuss this with her, but she says everything is fine and if she didn't want to do all this she wouldn't, but she says she is trying to make me happy.

This is not making me happy, I did not ask for her to be a servant, nor do I want one. This makes me feel anxious and unsettled, I know this is leading us to a bad place. I have told her how it makes me feel, but she replies these were needs you have that I was not meeting, and I want to make sure they are met.

I have seen her do this before, take on so much for others and then become resentful that she "has to do everything". That is most certainly not the case. I do not mind sharing the cooking, cleaning or any other day to day chore. I am willing to do anything she desires to fulfill her needs, but she will not tell me what her needs are, only that I am meeting all of her needs(which my gut tells me I am not).

What do I do????

Is she engaging in sacrifice?

I do understand your concern, but here is another angle. Why don't you simply step up your game and attempt to meet her needs at a higher level as well? Might turn into a lot of fun!

First off I want to applaud your vigilance in keeping a wary eye out for sacrifice. Very well done indeed.

You aren't enthusiastic about her doing so much, it worries you. So do what Dr Harley suggests when you want a different plan in place. Make a thoughtful request with her aims in mind. You want her to do less, she wants to please you, that's actually a fairly easy PoJA goal to reach. Keep the 'How would you feel?' phrase handy.

'I want to pick us up some lunch, Would you like that?'
'I'd really like it if we cleaned up together after dinner, would you?'
'How about I do x, y, z around the house for you. I really want to, how do you feel?'

If you feel she is doing SF 'for you', that's a problem because she needs to really work on focusing on her own pleasure to get over or prevent a recurrence of her aversion. Lots of women have this really bad habit of categorising SF as one of the chores that keep their H happy.

If that is the case, I'd steer clear of any SF you feel is a sacrifice for her. Stuff you feel she only does for you. I'd tell her how much you love doing (something you feel is good for her) instead because her reaction is so pleasing to you. Didn't you say she like massage? Try making sure she not only gets stuff like that but that she knows how happy it makes you when she is responding well.

I'd also consider bringing Steve Harley or an MB marriage coach in. The problem with sacrificers is that they tend not to believe you when you say you don't want their sacrifices.

A neutral third party may have more luck in convincing her when saying: "Listen, he doesn't want this."

Given that her sacrificing gave her a sexual aversion it is super important that you nip this in the bud and give her the help she needs to give her feelings equal priority.

Has she always been like this with you?

Can you start with something simple? Lunch, say.

She's pretty keen on doing MB by the sound of it, so take advantage of that. How about you both sit down and go through the PoJA steps one by one until you reach an enthusiastic agreement on how to do lunch. Make it very clear that you are not enthusiastic about her doing it all.

Indiegirl, yes she has always been like this, not just with me she is a sacrificer in most of her relationships. I have seen her do this with friends and on committees she joins.

She will go all in doing things over and beyond her responsibilites and she will gain positive feedback from others which makes her work harder, until the day comes she just flips and says they expect too much from me. This is exactly why I am concerned. It is difficult to distinguish between her geniune desire and the sacrificing. I asked her to make sure she is being honest with herself when she does these things. I want her to ask herself if she is doing all of this because it makes her happy, or because she feels it is her duty.

You make a very good point about going through the POJA, I will try that. She told me last night I shouldn't worry she is not doing too much and she wants to show me she is in this marriage 100%.

Can you go through the chapter on POJA in His Needs, Her Needs to make sure she understands how bad sacrifice is for her marriage?

Just FYI, I have a friend who is married to something of a sacrificer. He is one of those people with a clear admiration need, so he goes wherever he can get the best compliments. Or where he just feels that he is helping the most. That's what makes him happy.

It's seen him neglect home and family so as to volunteer for this group or spend an entire weekend helping a not-so-good friend move. His wife makes the classic mistake of taking his input at home for granted, so he has stopped giving her any help. No compliments mean no effort. Strangers and acquaintances are however quite complimentary because his dedication to them is such a generous surprise.

However when he gets closer in and more accepted by a group or a friend, they take him more and more for granted. Fewer compliments. Then he cracks and says to his wife that people expect too much of him.

I don't know if this is at all like your wife, but I thought it may be. If she has a high need for admiration, she will need lots of compliments. Those with high admiration needs don't like to think poorly of themselves either. As a FWW she will also feel like she needs to earn back her old self image as a good wife. And so she does, but JC doesn't involve her being a slave.

This sounds just like my wife. By the way the guy she had an affair with gave her many compliments, so this makes sense. When she filled out a love language test, her highest ranking was oddly physical touch(which she says is not important to her) and then admiration.

This is not something she shared with me, but in an email I read while checking up on her during her affair.

Was starting to think I wouldn't need to come back here to post, but last night when I got home I found a letter addressed to my wife's om. The letter was quite lengthy and let me preface it by saying she says her physciatrist encouraged her to write him a letter from the state of mind she was in during the affair. Or at least that is her excuse.

It starts by saying the this letter has been a work in progress for 6 months and that the journey has been painful. She then tells him that he was and still is a special person to her and that she doesn't want any regrets later so she is going to tell him how she feels. She then uses a line from Dr. Harley saying that she knows some people believe affairs are just fantasy, but she tells him what she had for him was real. She goes on to say that divorce is going to be hard for her but she is looking forward to a D-Date. She ends by asking him to keep this between them and to contact her if he needs anything. She then thanks him for "all of it"

I in no way believe this letter was written for her eyes only as she says. I was completely floored because I thought we were doing so well. To my knowledge the letter did not get sent, I discovered it as she was finishing typing.

Now I feel I am back to square one and DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO.

Please help

I'm sorry SEJ3. What EPs are in place, and have you been watching diligently for any contact?

I'm sure that others will be here soon.

Good grief - for starters, that psychiatrist has got to go.

Specifically, do you currently have monitoring software on the computer she uses and on her cell phone?

Advice like that from a psychiatrist, if in fact that is true and accurate, may be construed as malpractice or at the minimum, unethical.

In the few States that still have Alienation Of Affection tort laws still on the books, outside parties who are key in a way to encourage the destruction of a previously existing stable marriage may also be added on as a defendant in that type of suit, along with further charges of Intentional Infliction Of Emotional Damages.

I say that not to instigate filing such a claim, but to point out that legally and ethically a person in such an influential position to guide your W's feelings could at least be realistically threatened with significant charges and financial repercussions.

Has your W previously been following the EP's that should have been agreed to?

LTL