Tell him markos said to get his butt back on the board and back into listening to Dr. Harley until he learns how to do this. Actually I hope he's reading and sees it for himself.

This is not something that he can't do. And it's not a case where you can just give up trying. He has to learn to do this or you won't be able to survive like this.

Ernie, listen up. Don't discuss your intent. You need to learn what your wife feels is demanding, disrespectful, or angry, and you have to learn to avoid doing anything that she feels that way about. Regardless of your intent.

If your wife finds it disrespectful for you to say "A," you have to never say "A," regardless of whether you intend it to be disrespectful or not.

If your wife considers it to be an angry outburst when you say "X," you have to never say "X," regardless of whether you intend it to be an angry outburst or not.

Discussing your intent should never happen in response to your wife's complaints. Proving that you didn't intend any harm won't heal the hurt. All it does is make you look like you don't care and don't want to take the trouble to learn.

We are not trying to fix your intent. We are trying to fix your behavior. It's not anybody's place to judge your intent. Keep your intent to yourself, and do the work involved to modify your behavior so that it stops hurting your wife.

Ernie, please go post on your thread and acknowledge that you have read this and intend to do the work involved.

Ernie and Elaina, please read (or re-read) this:
Ouch? No, no, let me explain.

It will be interesting to see how things go tonight. I don't have a lot of time but will address this:

He said he is transparent with money.... If he is in his eyes, not at all in mine.

1. This will be year 3 he has not done taxes so I have no clue how much he makes and it makes me nervous.
2. He has his paycheck stub sent to his work, I don't see them but here and there when I discover one.
3. He did discuss health care things but other 401k, & other stuff deducted at this point I have no say in.
4. He deposits a set amount in our joint that I can't use as it's enough to cover bills.... ALL the rest goes into his secret account that I have Never seen.
And he likes to claim is this tiny amount.... When I have found stubs, it's not small. When I ask he says he spends it on Credit card payments and family stuff. I again have NO say or know what "family stuff" is. Or even the cards.
5. He has 3 credit cards he uses that he has refused to put me on/ close let me see... Know about- have input on- see a trend.
6. We have a cc he gave me for food and gas but was charged up ( he claims I did it all but that's not true) so half the month I have to come up with food money.
7. This is why I keep my child support: he makes me pay for electric with it- all kids things, piano, clothes and now food. I don't know how we would eat etc if I gave him that as well.
8 there is no budget- I have no idea how much debt he has, what he makes, how we will eat etc. it stresses me to no end
9. Boxes of more stuff arrive a few times a week. I have no idea what they are, why or how they are bought. It use to literally be at least one a day.
10. Not to mention medical bills now that I have no idea how to take care of them.

So all that to say: that it not my definition of "transparent".

That is a secret second life

Well, I am sorry but what he is saying is just a lie.
It is such falsehood -Uggg

How are we suppose to proceed when he keeps this up.
This is hopeless.
Thank you for your help but just reading his posts makes me want to flee.

He gave a bunch of lies to cover up yet again the truth about his treatment of me & his hiding finances.

When we first married- for about a year I had no child support, he would only put in 800 a paycheck in our "joint" account -demanding that all bills come out of it but his CC and it was a horrific time. It took him 2 years to finally decide after fight after fight to grace me with 1200.... And boy did he want a ton of praise for that.

He might learn this slowly and painfully over time but he will destroy my heart while doing it. No, he already has.

Can you two do the online program?

I will post this on your thread and on Ernie's thread...

Ernie needs to complete Anger Busters or some other appropriate anger management program. Any love-busting behavior needs to stop immediately. Elaina, do your best to not do any LB's either, okay?

What can you both cut out of your budget to be able to afford the online program with an accountability coach? Can you have a respectful conversation about this ASAP?

"9. Boxes of more stuff arrive a few times a week. I have no idea what they are, why or how they are bought. It use to literally be at least one a day."

Elaina, why have you never opened these boxes?

Where in your home can the contents be put such that you would not know what they are after Ernie opens them? Is there a secret room or something?

This does not make sense to me.

"10. Not to mention medical bills now that I have no idea how to
take care of them."

Ask Ernie to POJA how to take care of them. It is not solely your responsibility. It is a household responsibility.

Really everything needs to be put on the table and agreed upon. Ernie says he's not enthusiastic about all the fast food you're purchasing and you're not enthusiastic about all the online shopping he is doing.

agree to X amount of dollars that each of you is free to spend per month and this is what you'd get for fast food and what he'd get for online shopping.

"Well, I am sorry but what he is saying is just a lie.
It is such falsehood -Uggg"

Elaina, can you be more specific? His perception is that you spent what was in his viewpoint a substantial amount of money after becoming married, and also his recollection is that you caused several overdrafts per month.

#1: Did you cause overdrafts?

#2: What types of things did you spend money on after you were married? Is it possible you both have different ideas of what a substantial amount is....particularly if the money was spent on things he was not used to buying?


The point of my comment is not to rehash old disputes but to understand the disparity of perception.

Ernie's perception is his reality. Your perception is your reality.

You both need to come to an enthusiastic agreement on what your joint reality will be going forward.

I had concerns about his honesty before even reading this Elaina and called him out on his thread. Whether it is conflict avoidance or a SSL is irrelevant - it is dishonest whatever his motive.

I'd give him a chance to truly make the finances joint and transparent so that ALL earning and spending (personal as well as bills) is visible, pre-agreed and signed off by you both.

Any hidden spending or earnings is a locked door. In spite of what Bluebeard told his wife, there is no room for locked doors in marriage.

I did use to open them: I don't know what they were: it was mostly car parts or some kind of other things like that- I'm not a mechanic.
He became Very Very angry about me opening them, so I stopped. I have been asking for the purchases like this to stop from the beginning.

He has a stuff issue. I call it minor hoarding problem: he has filled our 3 car garage, it's attic, bought an old shipping container(that he knew I was NOT happy about him getting) put it by our garage, filled that: now the entire yard is filling up.

I hate it.talk about draining my LB 24/7. He knows it upsets me and makes me even fill ill if I go walk in it. Our city has been out filling motions, so he built a fence so they couldn't see it. Now it's filling past the fence, all over our yard.
He buys the stuff and then just leaves it outside a lot (not always) and never touches it again, or it goes in the huge pile of stuff.

What he means by "overdraft" was that when the $800 didn't cover our 1100 bucks for the mortgage, he had to put "his" money in to cover it. Then there was electric, water, gas etc to cover.
He has told me repeated times that apparently during this time, I had to shop for groceries and he said get basics. I said we don't have many ( it had been weeks since shopping as there was no money) I spent a hundred bucks - apparently that was too much and he has punished me since. I had no idea for years.

His claim of hundreds of dollars baffles me. It just isn't true. I can look at our joint account as well.

His biggest complaint I guess was he thought I was spending to much on food. Not fast food ( that news is new to me ) but paying for us with kids was hard. As I have learned, he believes totally different on what we should eat.

He has demanded that I cook all meals from scratch, not buy anything processed as it's wasteful. He also isn't POJA with us using the oven often. Like he said, the kids want pizza and even if I make from scratch, he is furious that we use the oven as it's wasteful.
I just don't know how to win with this.

At the beginning, my mom came and bought things for the house: he was convinced I paid for it. My mom was great!

He also claims I went nuts on fixing up the house: I wanted it painted which my mom paid for someone to finish as I got pregnant right off the bat. I Was Not spending crazy money/ anything to fix it up. All of it was my mom.

And then our cat got Really sick and I took to the vet. He was happy with that but had to move funds from his account to cover amount and still yelled at me for spending money. It was about $130 bucks but not sure how to fix that.

Again, this is the past, and I really need our today fixed.

"What he means by "overdraft" was that when the $800 didn't cover our 1100 bucks for the mortgage, he had to put "his" money in to cover it. Then there was electric, water, gas etc to cover. "


Overdraft is a word with a very specific meaning. It means items were presented to the bank where there was not enough money in the account to cover it.


"Overdraft" does not mean someone had to move money between accounts to meet their needs. That the person was spending within the household means but performing an administrative task to keep their bank account operating in an orderly fashion. Many households, including mine, do this frequently.


Did your account have a number of "overdrafts" as Ernie stated, or did it not?

"He has demanded that I cook all meals from scratch, not buy anything processed as it's wasteful. He also isn't POJA with us using the oven often. Like he said, the kids want pizza and even if I make from scratch, he is furious that we use the oven as it's wasteful.
I just don't know how to win with this. "


Is this still true today?

He did ask me today if we could start with the POJA, even with finances.

I told him and I will quote my text " PORH: I don't fear getting into it....been wanting to since finding the doc. It just might be to late-I'm not sure I want to continue with you or try. Not sure you will really do it. Trying to decide."

This is honestly where I am at. I really think I am done.

Sunny: not, we never paid the bank overdraft fees. He is meaning moving funds.

Yes, he still wants this food from scratch, but don't use oven....

Well, it appears he has enough material in his garages and such to make a solar oven - like the junior high science project.

Perhaps you could make the pizza dough and construct it, but have him build a solar oven and take charge of baking it in his contraption.

Obviously I meant a little bit of humor in this reply, but the point is when he makes decisions, don't protect him from the consequences of his decision.

So he doesn't want you to use the oven - let him figure out a way to finish the task by himself in the way he wants it finished - don't put yourself into a pretzel just so he can keep making SDs of you.

"Sunny: not, we never paid the bank overdraft fees. He is meaning moving funds."

Hmmm.... "overdraft" is a specific word.

Using that word when there was not actually an overdraft would rise to the level of an untruth, in my assessment.