I feel that my husband has an anger management problem.
He has done some work on getting his AOs under control, but there are times when he relapses. He has started something new that I can only describe as him "putting words in my mouth." I mentioned--calmly and without being disrespectful--that something he did/said bothered me. His response was "well, I guess I'm just a horrible husband and i'm ruining this marriage. if you think i'm so awful, why did you even marry me?" I was completely shocked by what I perceived as him blowing the situation out of proportion and making such a huge dramatic statement. Trying desperately to remain calm, I said "you are not a horrible husband, and you are not ruining our marriage, I am simply letting you know that you are doing something that hurts me. I am here for you and I love you. We can work through this together so we are both happy." His response is to mock me and tell me I am "acting so innocent." I asked him not to do that and to please control his anger. I also asked why he would make the statement about being a horrible husband. He snapped back "because you tell me!" I said "what?! did I used those exact words?" He replied "you might as well have." I tried to explain to him that if I haven't actually said those exact words, then I haven't said it. He has no right to put words in my mouth or misconstrue things I'm saying to mean things I'm not. My asking him to stop a behavior that hurts me is not saying he is a horrible husband. I have also asked him to stop "mocking me" and accusing me of playing a "saint" simply because I am trying to remain calm during his AO. His response is to simply tell me that I am making him feel like he is "messed up."

There is a lot of conflict in our past, and I'll save the novel. My primary concern is defining what love buster he is using. I try to understand his response from his point of view..as in, perhaps he is feeing like I am "attacking him" or "coming at him." Maybe I am? But there are times when I am not, and I am simply asking he stop doing something to hurt me. I have read about how to have a successful negotiation. I realize that we need to work on that. However, even when there is no AO, I can tell my husband is very very angry and doesn't take criticism/complaints well. I try my hardest not to make something a "criticism" but there are times when no matter how calmly and lovingly I mention something hurts me, he still gets defensive. He has a familial history of his mother having AOs over nothing and using guilt to get him to bend over backwards to get back in her good graces. We've identified this together, and in fact he's the one who identified it about his mother. However, no matter how many times I've pleaded with him and tried to get him leave the "baggage with his mother" out of our relationship and not look at every complaint as I'm trying to manipulate him, he won't address it. He still gets very defensive, even to the point of making statements like "I will NOT be a doormat," and "I am a grown man. If you think I'm just some little weakling you can push around and have jump at your every whim you are mistaken." I've never treated him like a door mat or done things on purpose to get a reaction. All of this behavior he is describing is not me! I remain calm despite what I perceive is his emotional maturity. Of course I could be completely wrong...but all of these "reactions of his" and "statements" are hurtful! Every time he tells me "I might as well have said" something it infuriates me! I have done really well at controlling my AO..and I will continue to do so, but it really hinders our ability to negotiate.

He is not really screaming at me or cursing...but all these other ridiculous statements and what I call "his arrogance" and "ego" every time he reminds me he's not a doormat feel just as much like lovebusters.

Is he in anger management?

Are you enrolled in the online program?

Projecting and condemnation. I'd say a disrespectful judgement.

Defensiveness definitely; in that by attacking this stops further nagging and arguments. Finally contempt due to annoying behavior this indicator that he may not care too be with you. Husband wouldn't treat someone else who he cherished that way. Therefore investigate if he's having an affair.

Graceful2b - thank you for your response.

BrainHurts - he is not in anger management, and we are not enrolled in the online program. We have however both read and discussed the Major topics from Marriage Builders. There are times when my husband is calm and agrees he has an anger problem, but when he has an AO and his emotions take over, it all goes out the window. Definitely a situation of being "temporarily insane."

On top of that...he is deployed.

Things have been good for a few months because we've been working through our shared religious belief (Christianity) to help make our marriage stronger. He has made some improvements and he has even claimed numerous times that I have "changed him" by sticking with him through the deployment, staying calm, supporting him, and being patient and understanding with his AOs. There have definitely been times that I have had AOs myself, but I have taken full responsibility right away, and tried to correct the behavior ASAP. This conflict we are dealing with right now is one of those examples. To be honest...our argument has been so "all over the place" that I don't even know what we are fighting about...but I do know that the biggest struggle I am having is when we begin arguing his anger takes over and he gets mean. Which is what is happening right now. Yesterday he got so angry about what he claims is my "finding fault" with him that he had to get get off the phone and needed time to think. I reminded him that I am not "finding fault" with him, I am just asking that he control his anger and not be hurtful. I pleaded with him to work with me calmly so we can find a solution that will make both of us happy. I am trying to utilize the POJA and successfully negotiate. I did let him get off the phone yesterday finally, but not before I asked clearly when we would talk again. He said the next day at our usual talk time. I call him at 1300 on Mondays.
So I called him today...as I said I would. No answer. I waited and called again. No answer. 30 minutes later he finally called me back. I could tell he was angry still which was not good because he was "supposed" to use the time between phone calls to think and calm down. I asked him what happened because I called at 1300 as I said I would. He blew me off and said he had to work late. I said "ok" and thought about asking if he could have emailed me to let me know he wouldn't be there for my phone call...but i didn't want to start another argument. Believe it or not..he asked what I wanted...which came off really rude...because it sounded like he didn't know why i was calling. I reminded him that yesterday he said he needed time to think and that we agreed I would call him at 1300 the next day, so I am calling as I said I would and wanted to know how he was doing. One word led to another and it was clear based on how he was talking to me that he was still angry. He kept making disrespectful judgments and accusations...asking me "why i even married him" if I thought he was "so awful" and asked me "if i could even handle the deployment" because it sounds like i can't apparently. I could feel his anger coming through again and calmly asked him to let me know when he would be ready to discuss a solution so that we are both happy in the marriage. He said I needed to apologize for the way I talked to him yesterday first. He stated he felt he was owed an apology first. I explained to him the love buster "selfish demands" and said I wasn't demanding that he let me know when he was ready to talk without anger...i was asking him, if he was ready, and if not, when would be a good time to talk and negotiate a solution so that both of our needs get met. I re-stated that i loved him very much and wanted to make the marriage work, and that i would be open to hearing what would make him happy and finding a compromise...but that nothing could be done if we were both making demands and being angry.
he kept restating that i owed him an apology first and once i apologized to him then we could move forward. Finally i got so frustrated that I said, "i cannot do that under the circumstances." I had listened to a clip last night from Joyce and Dr Harley and they talked about this very topic of what to do when your spouse makes a selfish demand..and the Dr Harley's response was say "not" and do not fulfill the request. Doing so will enable the behavior. I feel my husband is a good manipulator though because he is obviously viewing my "request" that he let me know when he is ready to talk without anger and come to a solution together as my way of making a "demand" so he is obviously countering my "demand" with a demand of his own.
He said point blank to me "well, obviously we are at a stand still."
I replied, "do you want to be at a standstill, or do you want to work together to find a solution that we are both happy with? can we not figure out a way to move forward and support each other and stop doing things that hurt each other..and find ways to help each other meet each person's ENs?" His response was to reinstate that he is owed an apology.
Then I did something that I don't know if I should have done or not...but I was frustrated and trying my hardest to follow the anger management info ive read off here. I said to him, that when he was ready to negotiate without anger a solution where both of our needs are met, i would be ready and willing. what happens is that he gives me the silent treatment...he has done so over and over. times i've tried to break the silence, he is mean to me and demands I apologize before he will talk to me anymore and move forward. so in this instance, i was trying to make it clear that the ball is in his court and that i would communicate with respect, openly, and willingly as soon as he was ready...and as soon as he managed his anger and could talk with me without having an AO or making DJs or SDs. Until then, I would not contact him. In a previous post I made, I was advised to be at a standstill with him until he got his anger under control. So, that's what I'm trying to do here.

He views it as my trying to "dominate" and "control" the situation. Clearly he does, because at the beginning of our conversation he told me that he was not going to let me "dominate" the conversation and that he feels I think I am "self-righteous" and "without fault." Plenty of times...PLENTY OF TIMES...I have admitted fault over and over and without being prodded apologized. I even apologized at the beginning of today's conversation...telling him that i am not justified in being over critical and that i am sorry...and I am also not justified in having an AO simply because he is having an AO and that retaliation for any reason is not right. Later in the conversation he accused me of never saying I'm sorry or "owning" my mistakes and I asked him if he heard me earlier in the conversation when I said clearly that I was at fault for a number of things and that I was sorry...he said point blank.."no, you never said that." These are the things that would lead me to have my own AO, because I spent quite a few minutes stating how I was at fault and apologizing...and then to have him turn around and tell me he didn't hear say it...makes me feel insanely frustrated and like he's not listening to me. I feel like i'm being "gas-lighted" almost.

Anyway..to wrap up...after I made the statement about contacting me when he was ready to working on a POJA...his reply was "WOW. it's that easy for you huh? well, I guess we won't be talking anymore." after which he said "love you" and hung up on me.

We are married. How am I supposed to interpret "I guess we won't be talking anymore" from my husband? We are not dating, we are married. I don't just go away because he doesn't want to deal with me anymore.

Worse...he will put the entire blame on me because when he says stuff like "Wow. it's that easy for you huh?" he's adding evidence into this case he's building against me that he's convinced 1) I don't love him 2) don't want to be married 3) and can't handle his deployment....when I feel everything I say is completely the opposite!!!! I tell him flat out that I love him and want to be married to him. And, if the argument is well maybe i'm doing things that show him otherwise...I also make sure to make it clear that I want to do whatever i need to do to change those things i'm doing to hurt him...and also, that I want to meet his ENs.

But my question is....how can I continue to work through his AO?? I asked him how it makes sense that his anger mis-management is hurting me, and yet before he will address it and stop hurting me, I have to apologize??

Please tell me what I'm doing wrong?? I know God asks me to love my husband even when he is acting un-lovable...but there has got to be a line where behavior travels into abuse. Would God really ask me to continue to submit to the AO of my husband and admit fault FIRST before my husband will meet my ENs??? Will my husband never be expected to address his AO, DJs, and SD???

Am I really the one who is temporarily insane?? I'm starting to feel that way.

Thank you for your reply Mustyrecord.

I have ruled out an affair based on reviewing his email, phone records, and monitoring for any other questionable behavior. There is little I can do to monitor what he is actually doing in his location overseas. We've discussed the topic together and feel we are on the same page. We adamantly oppose infidelity and are very open and in agreement about it ending our marriage.

I can see/feel the contempt from him...is it possible it could be resentment because I force him to see his faults because his faults hurt me?
The thing is, he and I have discussed....that our spouse...just like God and Jesus...love us despite our faults...as I do. I love him despite his faults...but both our marriage and our relationship with God is designed to love us in spite of our faults but help us to improve them and not hurt others by them. Is that wrong??
I constantly admit to my faults. I don't defend myself and I am very willing to do whatever I need to in order to work on my own faults. I just stress that he and I do it together in a loving atmosphere. It won't always be perfect, but defensiveness and contempt will get us nowhere. I agree that our current situation is stressful...and that perhaps we should brush everything under the rug until he gets back from deployment...but there are times like NOW when I feel compelled to remind him that its not OK to hurt me and I do not advocate enabling his hurtful behavior. DEPLOYMENT does not justify him treating me poorly and damaging our relationship anymore than his AO would justify my having an AO!
Is that wrong?

Phoenix,
Why don't you write to MB rAdio show and asks these questions of Dr Harley? They will ask you if you want to be part of a show or call you directly. Or you can send the email and ask for the response on the air w/out you. You could articulate your situation and the stand still w/your husband. It might help to have this radio recording aired because your husband could later listen to it over the air and even call in himself. Simply exposing this gaslighting might really help your husband understand and maybe even own his crazy making behavior. Dr Harley will see through it and call him on it.

You know you cannot rely on unconditional love to see you through in this marriage.

Your husbands behavior is called marital abuse. You are right in that you do not want your husband to verbally or emotionally abuse you. Its great you have set a boundary with him. You can talk when he can talk to you w/out selfish demands, disrespectful judgements or angry outbursts.

Thank you Graceful2b. I have thought of writing to Joyce and Dr Harley.
I have been reading everything I can on this website and I am in despair about what to do.
I am not happy with our standstill. I was not feeling good to have to tell my husband "I am not going to contact you again. When you are ready to negotiate a solution that makes us both happy I am ready and willing." only to have him respond "I guess it's that easy for you" all the while hearing him unconsciously accusing me of "I knew you didn't love me" and then have him end the conversation with "well I guess we won't be talking anymore."

YET I am the one sitting here wondering desperately what to do?

Should I email him? Dr Harley does say one spouse can save a marriage. Dr Harley also has advised one individual Pay to pay "particular attention to the Love Buster, disrespectful judgments, where a spouse is trying to give their spouse "constructive criticism." Marriage is no place to straighten someone out. Any effort you make to take charge, or be a leader, may be interpreted by the spouse as disrespectful. Your intentions may be pure, but if the effect is hurt feelings, so stop doing it." I am asking myself, am I doing this?? Is this what my husband is feeling when I'm asking him to address his AOs??

I feel Dr. Harley would ask me to refrain from doing anything hurtful back to my spouse despite him being hurtful to me...but we are at a standstill. I have asked him to follow a POJA with me and at minimum decided on a time that is good for him...where he is in a good place mentally to calmly find a solution that will make both of us happy. I feel I continue to try for this and get met with recriminations!! And, his continued assistance that he will not "give me what I want" until he gets an apology from me. I try to get him to understand that the POJA is not "what I want" but I may be necessary to have both of our needs met and save the marriage. I feel he would argue that the POJA is "my way" and that he would be "giving in to me/letting me dominate" by going along with it. To me it sounds crazy because I'm asking him only to work together to find a solution to both of our needs...but he views any form of agreement as concession perhaps....

So I sit here...worrying that the longer I spend not communicating...the more damage I'm doing. Should I continue to email him everyday at least to say I love him? Should I keep repeating in email that I love him and would like to discuss the POJA to meet his needs and mine? Should I just "give in" and say "I'm sorry" so he will move forward? He claims my apology is an "emotional need" and that I am not meeting it. I feel he is manipulating the point of meeting an emotional need simply to get me to apologize...but parts of Dr Harleys advice don't advocate doing something simply to make the other spouse happy especially if it hurts you.

I am so at a loss of what to do...

Thank you. I have emailed Mrs. Harley.
I appreciate everyone's help.

Happy Birthday btw BrainHurts!

Thank you!!

@phoenix
If there is one saying that I could patent it would be never try to teach a pig to sing! It wastes your time and it annoys the pig. The only way to handle your husband is to expose the gas lighting.

Kindness,gentleness and tact are your qualities, however it doesn't work on a stubborn spouse. Contact Mrs. Harley!

Thanks Mustyrecord.
I am at a loss at how to get him to see the gaslighting and take responsibility for his part in the conflict.
I spent the entire evening yesterday typing him email after email of everything I could find off the MB website in relation to our situation. I was trying to be respectful of both of our positions so I didn't do any finger pointing, I simply sent him information from the position of wanting to resolve the conflict so we both were happy. My final email was one I wrote myself and I listed out apologies for each of the love busters i was or have committed and said that I was ready and willing to find a solution that would meet both of our needs. I also mentioned the POJA.
I was surprised to get an email response from him thanking me for the emails. HOWEVER, I am incredibly disturbed about a few of the sentences he wrote. One was that he believes there is "definitely some mental abuse occurring" however he doesn't say specifically who is committing the abuse and what it is. I'm trying not not get angry about that because i feel like he is hinting at it being me considering yesterday in phone conversation he demanded an apology for the way I've been treating him and talking to him. Mind you, I've not had an AO, I've not cursed, and I've remained calm. I feel like this is yet another attempt for him to project onto me and avoid responsibility. In his mind he is the victim. The reason I say that is because he also wrote the sentence that he is "very scared" because he feels that I have "turned on him." How he is coming to the conclusion when I've been the one begging for a negotiation and a POJA and a stop to the love busters...I don't know. And lastly, he says specifically, "you know the person you married and so do I and we have no right to change that person."

Thankfully, I spoke with Joyce Harley today and have agreed to have been asked to have my phone call be used on the radio show. I am very grateful for the Harleys taking the time to talk with me.

I asked Joyce today if there was a separate guideline for dealing with spouses with mental disorders because I honestly feel like i don't know who my husband is sometimes and he's starting to warp my mind. He twists things around that I say. He flat out tells me that I never said things that I know I said...literally minutes before stating I didn't say them. When I'm calm and try to be considerate he calls me self-righteous and acting innocent. When he pushes me to have an AO or distance myself he turns around and uses my reaction as proof that I don't love him and can't handle the deployment. He demands things from me yet tells me I don't have a right to demand anything from him. He tells me that I am allowed to tell him he's not meeting an EN, but then I have to leave it alone and stop bringing it up.

I literally feel like I'm going insane...or rather, that he is insane and its rubbing off on me because I don't know which way is up. I don't know how to best describe it other than he is a master manipulator. But I don't want to believe this about my husband! I feel like there are glimmers of hope in him that he wants to be loved and he is wounded. And, I'm getting conflicting information from the Bible telling me to forgive and love even when my spouse seems unlovable...as Christ has done for us and as God does for us everyday...but that is so hard sometimes...

Disconnection not only does he your H seem afraid in his email's he appears noticeably rigid, triggered into survival mode, and yet at the same time this makes no rational sense. It's like the fear is being triggered by the memory of old trauma. IMHO H is disconnecting from you and the short emails indicates this.

I'm sorry Phoenix, but now I see you are treading in deep water.

Stop right now your attempts to 'straighten out' your husband.

As he is somewhat telling you--- he has to take responsibility towards his own actions, reactions, and so on.

Its a lovebuster for him to have you lecture to him about how he is supposed to act. He's gone into rebellion against you and the marriage.

Sure he is verbally abusing you and messing with your mind.

BE the one to stop the madness from your own side of the fence.

Stop nagging, lecturing, forwarding educational materials, begging, fussing, condemning, being the his counselor/pastor...

You have set one another off and I wait to hear from Dr Harley to help you two re-boot.

When will your call be on the show?

Phoenix
If you are still there I hope that you don't get involved with magical thinking. I have been on many different websites and what is great here, is exposing versus enabling and pity partying.

Hello all.
I am deeply worried now.
He keeps thanking me for emailing him...and he keeps saying I love you...and I'm trying to follow the "one spouse can save the marriage rule," but now you are making me wonder if I am doing the wrong thing.

His emails are short....which concerns me.

Here are the two I have gotten:

This was the first...

Thank you for all of the emails.

I have been asking God for guidance in this situation. I have been
looking into myself and what has happened over the past few days. I do
feel that there has been some mental abuse that has ac cured. I am
very scared because I feel that you turned on me and I thought that we
were headed in the right direction with our marriage. The actions over
the last few days has to stop on both sides. We have to be committed
to this marriage! You knew the person that you married and so did I,
we have no right to try and change the other person. I know that there
needs to be some compromises and I am willing to do them.

I have been asking myself what happened? Our marriage is the most
important thing to me.

I love you

This was the second...(in regards to sending him the Love Buster questionnaire and Emotional Needs questionnaire)

Thank you for taking the time to send this to me. I filled it out I
had to print it and then scan it.

I love you