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Originally Posted by April78
Thank you SuzieQ. I know you are trying to be helpful by being blunt but your approach is only cutting the knife deeper.

We don't support people by patting them on the back while they are making huge errors that are going to lead to more heartbreak and pain. Sorry!


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April, if your MB reading has led you to believe exposure isn't warranted, I strongly urge you to ask Dr H yourself.

He has 20 years experience with every type of A imaginable and there are some occasions where exposure isn't advised. They are: violent spouses and hardship in the case of workplace exposure.

Even then he warns you can't recover if you can't expose. Secrets breed secrets.

Do ask him yourself if you think we are mistaken.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Also, if you don't feel like posting while you mull all this - make sure you sleep and eat (or nap and bite - whatever you can manage) Also access anti depressants from your doc if you need them. A second Dday is very hard on the soul and can make it hard to think.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Thank you all. I do feel that we should speak to whomever necessary at work to stop any incoming mail. Cards, letters and gifts are HER FAVORITE way to communicate. And I can imagine her dropping one in the mail every time a date comes along that she feels has some importance. She could do that for years. I don't want to wonder every day if today is the day.

He sees getting a letter and giving it to me as an opportunity to prove himself to me. To show he has the will to resist her.

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Another topic: He has asked if we should utilize a counselor to get through it and aid in healing. What are your thoughts on this?

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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by April78
Thank you SuzieQ. I know you are trying to be helpful by being blunt but your approach is only cutting the knife deeper.

We don't support people by patting them on the back while they are making huge errors that are going to lead to more heartbreak and pain. Sorry!

I completely understand and respect this; I was beginning to feel that you were bordering on calling me names, which doesn't help matters. Lets shake hands and move forward.

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April I have learned this a long time ago that some people learn lessons going through it and others by seeing others go through it. I know it may seem like we saying things that we can't know because we can't see the future, but time and time again people that have failed to listen find themselves here again.

If I told you if your son keeps playing on a train track he will get hit by a train. I don't need to know the future to know that will happen. Marriage has it's on laws that is consistent and measurable that when you violate those laws bad things happen. Dr. H has figured out those laws and should win a noble prize for it because he hasn't changed what he has said for over 30 years and has been consistently the number 1 place to get help with your marriage. His advice is sound because it works and has worked for over 30 years.

You're way haven't worked in the past, why would it work now. I would love to see you not burn yourself but I will be here when you are ready to listen. I have a son that I kept telling don't touch the stove because it is hot. How do you explain to a kid what hot means, well he touch the stove and found out what hot meant. I which he didn't have to go through that but he had to because he would not listen. Your situation is greater then a hot stove but you seem determined to experience it instead of listening.

If you have the time I would read through the threads on here to see what happens to marriages when people rely on their own wisdom.


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The first step of killing an affair is exposure.
At this point, you should read the Exposure 101 Thread and come back when you are prepared to fully expose and start killing this affair

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Originally Posted by April78
To show he has the will to resist her.


That's very bad news, April and it explains an awful lot about how he got into this mess.

One of things that separates a cheat from a non cheat is a false belief in self control. A man who likes the ladies, and feels they have a power over him will typically avoid the temptation.

A person who thinks they can 'control it' is far more at risk. That's why we see religious leaders, politicians, in short real boy scouts on these forums. It's not the case that only scumbags cheat. Usually it is just people who underestimate the affect of admiration on their ego.

Every contact from her is a lovebank deposit to him. He can't control that.

Your H should know by NOW that he cannot handle attention from his ex gf. He cannot do it any more than an alcoholic can carry on going to the bar.

I can't find the quote but Dr Harley often stresses that the only people who remain faithful are the ones who acknowledge the temptation of flattery and old desire. The ones who think they have self control allow themselves the thrill of the experience, alway believing they can quit (some other time)



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by April78
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by April78
Thank you SuzieQ. I know you are trying to be helpful by being blunt but your approach is only cutting the knife deeper.

We don't support people by patting them on the back while they are making huge errors that are going to lead to more heartbreak and pain. Sorry!

I completely understand and respect this; I was beginning to feel that you were bordering on calling me names, which doesn't help matters. Lets shake hands and move forward.


I'd work very hard if I were you to keep Susie Q on your thread. Her situation was very similar to yours and her experience in spotting a wayward lie from afar is awe-inspiring. She prevented a false recovery just days ago.





What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by April78
Another topic: He has asked if we should utilize a counselor to get through it and aid in healing. What are your thoughts on this?


The vast majority are hopeless. They will just do conflict management (shut up and trust him), do zip to affair proof and nothing to restore romantic love. We see scores of counsellor trauma stories. One guy paid a counsellor thousands, was bullied to trust her every session and at the end of it all the wife left him for OM.

There are some MB counsellors around (but a lot of them misinterpret the material), or you can go direct to the counselling centre where you get an MB coach. There is even an option where you have direct access to Dr H on a private forum or to his children Dr Chalmers and Steve Harley via phone counselling.

This is all moot before exposure though. It's common for counselling to go on while the A goes on. Counselling is a handy distraction for waywards. One of the reasons Dr H invented it was because he was sick of having a lying spouse in his office pretending to work on the marriage. If they embraced exposure though, the coast was clear for him to do some healing.




What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by April78
To show he has the will to resist her.


That's very bad news, April and it explains an awful lot about how he got into this mess.

One of things that separates a cheat from a non cheat is a false belief in self control. A man who likes the ladies, and feels they have a power over him will typically avoid the temptation.

A person who thinks they can 'control it' is far more at risk. That's why we see religious leaders, politicians, in short real boy scouts on these forums. It's not the case that only scumbags cheat. Usually it is just people who underestimate the affect of admiration on their ego.

Every contact from her is a lovebank deposit to him. He can't control that.

Your H should know by NOW that he cannot handle attention from his ex gf. He cannot do it any more than an alcoholic can carry on going to the bar.

I can't find the quote but Dr Harley often stresses that the only people who remain faithful are the ones who acknowledge the temptation of flattery and old desire. The ones who think they have self control allow themselves the thrill of the experience, alway believing they can quit (some other time)

Thanks; it gives me something to think about.

I have told him that my concern is that he will think he can handle it, she will contact him, and he will reply thinking "it's no big deal" to give her 5 minutes and then it will all spiral from there.

So what you are saying is, he needs to know he cannot handle her and needs to eliminate all possible contacts with the understanding that it WILL only lead to trouble.

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Thank you for the thoughts on counseling. It's very interesting.

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Originally Posted by April78
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by April78
To show he has the will to resist her.


That's very bad news, April and it explains an awful lot about how he got into this mess.

One of things that separates a cheat from a non cheat is a false belief in self control. A man who likes the ladies, and feels they have a power over him will typically avoid the temptation.

A person who thinks they can 'control it' is far more at risk. That's why we see religious leaders, politicians, in short real boy scouts on these forums. It's not the case that only scumbags cheat. Usually it is just people who underestimate the affect of admiration on their ego.

Every contact from her is a lovebank deposit to him. He can't control that.

Your H should know by NOW that he cannot handle attention from his ex gf. He cannot do it any more than an alcoholic can carry on going to the bar.

I can't find the quote but Dr Harley often stresses that the only people who remain faithful are the ones who acknowledge the temptation of flattery and old desire. The ones who think they have self control allow themselves the thrill of the experience, alway believing they can quit (some other time)

Thanks; it gives me something to think about.

I have told him that my concern is that he will think he can handle it, she will contact him, and he will reply thinking "it's no big deal" to give her 5 minutes and then it will all spiral from there.

So what you are saying is, he needs to know he cannot handle her and needs to eliminate all possible contacts with the understanding that it WILL only lead to trouble.


You can't teach him April. He has already gone down that road. He's tasted the temptation and will always be addicted to this woman now. Even if he doesn't think so.

Every lovebank deposit you gave him was attributed to her. She was the new one. The headliner. The side-thrill. No problems/all fantasy. If she had been solely in control of meeting all his needs, she would have hit rock face down because in reality - she is a loser. But she didn't ever hit the rocks - you kept real life moving, while she provided the thrills. Thrills he will miss.

Very soon he is going to experience withdrawal. If he hasn't it is because he is still in touch.

You can't explain anything to an addict about how out of control they are. They cannot believe that. You cannot teach them. Only exposure works.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by April78
Thanks; it gives me something to think about.

I have told him that my concern is that he will think he can handle it, she will contact him, and he will reply thinking "it's no big deal" to give her 5 minutes and then it will all spiral from there.

So what you are saying is, he needs to know he cannot handle her and needs to eliminate all possible contacts with the understanding that it WILL only lead to trouble.

Even if he doesn't respond, every time contact is made, even one sided contact, he will think of her.


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There are cases where just the sight of the OW's car will trigger old memories. Dr H has even told couples to move out of state to make sure there are no triggers that would resume the A.

April I know all this is horribly unfair on you. I know you shouldn't have to do anything hard or difficult becuase you did nothing wrong. However it just IS. It's like termites. You have to root them out properly, sparing no time or expense, to save your home.

I should imagine you are quite numb and scared right now. Do remember we have all been there and we would not steer you wrong.

There is no down side to telling the truth. It's just the truth. It is not wrong to do that and ask for help.






What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by April78
The last loose string is that of his work address. This is where she sends mail. The plan is for him to bring home any communications, unopened.

Oh dear. I am so sad to read your post because it tells me you don't understand the problem and are headed for a death of a thousand cuts. All the "remorse" and crocodile tears in the world will not prevent an affair. I am sorry.

And your plan for him to "bring home any communications unopened" completely misses the point. That is like saying that it is ok for the alcoholic to have a drink as long as he tells you about it. That strategy misses the point that one drink triggers a binge. And secondly, your husband is only as good as his word. And you know his word can't be trusted.

I am also sorry that you have chosen to harm your husband by keeping the affair a secret. That hurts you all because affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret only serves to fuel the fantasy. When your son finds out you lied to him about something so important, he will just learn that dishonesty is an acceptable practice.

It is adultery and lies that hurts children, not the truth. Lies and illusions do not make children happy or secure.

Your husband is addicted to her. When you are dealing with an addict, you need to go by his ACTIONS, not his words. His actions clearly indicate an addiction. Most alcoholics and addicts claim they are not addicted and "can give it up anytime!!"

Snooping is not "snooping" when the WS knows you are snooping. If your husband knows you are snooping then obviously he just knows not to use that resource. Telling him about this has ruined your methods and sending him to this forum means you won't this forum as a resource any more.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I know this isn't constructive, but there are moments when I'd love to slap some sense into him!

Part of me wishes I could ruin her like she's ruined me.

I know, again not constructive. But I feel like she should suffer. She knew he was married.


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Originally Posted by April78
I know this isn't constructive, but there are moments when I'd love to slap some sense into him!

I mean this kindly, but we feel the same way about you. frown


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by April78
He sees getting a letter and giving it to me as an opportunity to prove himself to me. To show he has the will to resist her.
This experiment has already been done. Your husband has already proven that he doesn't have the will to resist the OW. Do you expect a different result this time?

The only difference now is that you are aware of the threat. The temptation is the same, and he will do it again unless it becomes impossible to continue.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."


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DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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