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April78 Offline OP
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I'm hearing you loud and clear. I was trying to give him info on the importance of our child knowing, not the forum itself. My bad. I'm human too, and I will make mistakes.

I appreciate the information punting to the nature of an affair. Frankly, it's really hard for me to comprehend what must have been/be going on in his head. I can't imagine doing this to him.

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Originally Posted by mrEureka
Originally Posted by April78
He sees getting a letter and giving it to me as an opportunity to prove himself to me. To show he has the will to resist her.
This experiment has already been done. Your husband has already proven that he doesn't have the will to resist the OW. Do you expect a different result this time?

The only difference now is that you are aware of the threat. The temptation is the same, and he will do it again unless it becomes impossible to continue.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

I guess I'm feeling hopeless, like there is nothing I can do. I feel like I'm at his mercy. ;(. I feel like I don't know what to believe. I feel like this is a leaking dam and no matter how many avenues of communication I try to plug, I cannot stop this. I am just so, so sad.

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Many spouses agree to no contact, but it's bigger than them, and so they find another way that "doesn't hurt the spouse" so badly, and then they taste and enjoy that for a while until they are sucked right back in.

You cannot miss TRUE withdrawal. It's the stuff that horror movies are made of, complete with thrashing on the floor and howling in misery because a piece of their body has been amputated. Continually�for 2-3 weeks. Before it begins to improve inch by inch.

Your husband is not there.

You need to expose on your own. Thoroughly, all at once, and without telling him it is coming.

Working the policy of radical honesty from your side of the street while contact is continuing is a total waste of your nerves and goodwill. It will avail you nothing. All that it will do is alert the enemy to your plans so that they can be sure to steer clear of any minefields where they may get caught.

ALL contact must be cut off�he must change jobs, there will be no way to cut off contact there. Even if his "personal" mail is cut off, it is simple for him to instruct her to always send mail from a business envelope.


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Originally Posted by April78
I'm hearing you loud and clear. I was trying to give him info on the importance of our child knowing, not the forum itself. My bad. I'm human too, and I will make mistakes.

April, you shouldn't give him the info about exposing to your child and your family. You are supposed to just do it. WITHOUT HIM. You correct the mistake by just doing it.

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I appreciate the information punting to the nature of an affair. Frankly, it's really hard for me to comprehend what must have been/be going on in his head. I can't imagine doing this to him.

I understand. But its important that you understand it doesn't matter what is in his head; what matters is what he DOES. His actions clearly reflect an addiction that is not ended.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I understand. But its important that you understand it doesn't matter what is in his head; what matters is what he DOES. His actions clearly reflect an addiction that is not ended.
Consider:

You absolutely love chocolate. Indeed, you are addicted to chocolate. You know that the lunch money your mother gives you is supposed to be spent on milk, but you use it to buy candy bars instead. One day you get careless, and your mother finds the candy bar wrapper in your lunch box. You promise never to betray her trust again, and always use the milk money as intended. No accountability is put in place. The next day, you have the choice. Do you a) buy the milk and keep your word or b) buy the chocolate and be more careful about throwing away the wrapper?

How long do you think you will be able to resist the temptation?


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Originally Posted by April78
Originally Posted by armymama
You are making several strategic mistakes here. I echo the previous posts and add the following:

Your H has been in an affair for 4 years and you are HOPING that he does not love/is not addicted to OW. For an affair to last 4 years, your H did indeed love OW. The kinds of affairs with no love are typically ONS in bars or with prostitutes.

Your H is not at all depressed because he is not worried about withdrawal because he knows he and OW can contact each other via the workplace.

AM

I hear what you are saying and would like more thoughts. How does one truly "love" someone they rarely see? I agree and have asked myself--how was it so difficult to end if he didn't "love" her? At the same time, how do you love someone you rarely have physical interaction with?

The feeling of love is produced first and foremost by the mind. Surely you know this? Physical interaction is secondary when you are talking about a real connection.

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Your H is saying everything that both a repentant and unrepentant wayward spouse would say.

There is absolutely no way to tell the difference based on his words alone.

You can take that to the bank.

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Originally Posted by April78
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by April78
Thank you SuzieQ. I know you are trying to be helpful by being blunt but your approach is only cutting the knife deeper.

We don't support people by patting them on the back while they are making huge errors that are going to lead to more heartbreak and pain. Sorry!

I completely understand and respect this; I was beginning to feel that you were bordering on calling me names, which doesn't help matters. Lets shake hands and move forward.

There was no name calling. If you feel someone is breaking TOS - then notify the moderators. But I would not waste time and energy posting to people about how to post to you. You need to focus on killing this affair.


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Men are much better than women at compartmentalising their two lives.

In some ways a male cheat is better to deal with: (A WW almost always is besotted with OM and wants to leave, accusing her H of violence on the way out) but it also makes them harder to figure. When he is with you, he genuinely only wants you and thinks only to consider you. But it is the same when he is talking to her. They split their lives up so effectively that Dr Jekyll has simply no idea what Mr Hyde has planned.

You really aren't at his mercy - you can follow a successful plan!



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by April78
I guess I'm feeling hopeless, like there is nothing I can do. I feel like I'm at his mercy. ;(. I feel like I don't know what to believe. I feel like this is a leaking dam and no matter how many avenues of communication I try to plug, I cannot stop this. I am just so, so sad.

But your situation is not hopeless! There is much that you can do! Dr Harley has a complete step by step and guaranteed plan that WILL work as long as both of you follow the plan. smile

Like indie has said, this is not fair. We all sure know that. But right now, even if your husband has the very best of intentions�fantasy (his affair) is emotional, and so YOU cannot rely on his words right now�his words may sound logical, but he is not thinking logically. Does that make sense?

It takes 3-6 months of NO contact in any form (even a letter that he brings home to you) before your husband will come out of the "fog". You sure do not want to start that clock all over again every time that she sends a letter to him at his work!

YOU do the thinking right now to protect yourself and your future marriage recovery. ANY communication leak has to be plugged. Exposure must happen, and then you two can begin to truly recover.


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You'd be surprised at how good it feels to get support from family and friends. You don't have to go through this alone. Tell people what has happened and ask them to support the marriage.

If people here seem urgent, it's because THIS IS URGENT. We've seen it over and over and over again. We know this road and every dip and turn. Please get support for yourself and your marriage by sharing this dirty secret.


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Originally Posted by April78
Thank you for the constructive reply.
Don't do this, please. Don't use a post of mine, that you happen to like, to damn everyone else on this thread by praising me. This "thank you" is an insult to everyone who has given up time to try and help you today

Absolutely every last person posting on this thread is trying to help you avoid the deep pain that accompanies ongoing affairs. Not one of them is trying to hurt you or attack you, and for you to suggest that they are is unworthy. You should be above that.


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April78 Offline OP
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Thank you all.

Question: the letter of no contact--he told her on the phone not to contact him the day I found out--

Can we still send a letter?

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Originally Posted by April78
Thank you for the constructive reply.
It hasn't escaped my attention that you have decided simply not to address the issue of exposure, especially to your son. You've been doing that since you asked people not to talk about it any more.

If somebody makes a post about something else, you respond to that, but you bypass any further advice on exposure. You appear to think that you can push that topic further away by allowing other topics to become the focus of discussion, and when that has been done for long enough, the fact that you have not exposed will have been forgotten.


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I have bumped two threads for you to read.


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Your situation is far from hopeless, but you need to act with a plan. The path to recovery is very narrow. Stop resisting and follow the steps. Start with a complete exposure. Then, develop a list of extraordinary precautions that will make continuation of the affair impossible. Establish no contact in writing. Don't let your wayward husband negotiate terms; you set the terms. Let his employer know what he has been doing with company time and resources. He may have to quit his job. Remember, you drive the recovery bus. He can either ride with you or get out.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by April78
Thank you for the constructive reply.
Don't do this, please. Don't use a post of mine, that you happen to like, to damn everyone else on this thread by praising me. This "thank you" is an insult to everyone who has given up time to try and help you today

Absolutely every last person posting on this thread is trying to help you avoid the deep pain that accompanies ongoing affairs. Not one of them is trying to hurt you or attack you, and for you to suggest that they are is unworthy. You should be above that.

I understand and apologize. That wasn't my intention. I apologized to her as well.

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If your WH were a possibly recovering alcoholic (but you only have his word for it - no actual proof), would you tell him it was fine to go into a bar every day...as long as he brought you an unopened bottle of whiskey every now and again?

Would bringing you an occasional unopened bottle prove he was still on the wagon?

Is there any chance that he might, once in a while, even specifically order a bottle of whiskey for the sole purpose of bringing it home to allay your suspicions?

Would you feel better if he drank vodka secretly, but brought you every single beer he was offered?

The current system with your WH will be every bit as ineffective at cutting off the A, as the above method would work for an alcoholic.

One last note, on the subject of telling your son. Children who sense tension in the home - and they're all bright enough to do this - and are not told the correct reason behind it, invariably blame THEMSELVES.

Children are innately centered around themselves. They will assume that if something bad is happening, (even if they don't quite know what the something bad is), that it's because of something they did.

Your DS has already been wounded about the A. By telling him the truth, you remove the poison from the wound so he can begin to heal properly.

Why wouldn't you want that for him?


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Originally Posted by April78
I am terrified that he will do it again. I KNOW that they can contact each other should they choose. Short of locking him up, I cannot guarantee anything. He has her phone number memorized. If he wants to call her from another phone, he could.

The fact is, I feel a total lack of control because he is a person with free will. I can take all of the steps you propose and, lets face it, he can still do it.
This is entirely true. The only way for you to guarantee NC would be for you to be with him 24 hours per day for the rest of his life.

What you can do, though, instead of wringing your hands, is take all the steps that we tell you to take. The two things that you are evading or ignoring are the most significant things you could do to prevent a recurrence.

1. Expose to your son and your wider families. This will give you both support, and it will increase accountability. Your H will not want to hurt his son again.

2. Expose the affair properly at work. My suggestion, that you thanked me for, was not to tell the mailman, who is not in a position of authority and cannot discipline your H. My suggestion was for you to tell your H's line management and get their help to monitor his activities. Your H would be taking a big risk if he defied their authority.

If your H's shameful secret is known to his employers, to your son and to his parents, and if his employers monitor his workplace activity with a view to disciplinary action should he exploit their resources again, and if your H THEN goes out of his way to buy a secret pre-paid affair phone, or starts visiting internet cafes to send emails, or uses public telephone boxes to contact his whore, then you will need to separate from him.

However, if you leave open the easy means of communication that he has been using so far, and if you don't expose, you are not even trying to put a serious stop to this. You are just giving your H carte blanche to do as he pleases.

All of us would have an affair under certain circumstances (these vary for each of us). If it is easy to have an affair because it is easy to communicate and nobody can see, quite a lot of people will have one (60% of married people already do) and somebody who is already in an affair will simply continue it.

If it is hard to have an affair, those who go out of their way to screw over their spouses are seriously problematic and need to be separated from. You don't know which class your H is in yet, but start by making it hard for him. You'll probably stop the affair with the measure we have given you. You have a very high chance of doing so. You have a very low chance of doing so if you do not expose at to your son, your families and at work.


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Originally Posted by April78
I understand and apologize. That wasn't my intention. I apologized to her as well.
No you didn't!

Originally Posted by April78
I completely understand and respect this; I was beginning to feel that you were bordering on calling me names, which doesn't help matters. Lets shake hands and move forward.
That was not an apology!



BW
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