Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 8 of 10 1 2 6 7 8 9 10
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
A
April78 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
@indiegirl

I hear your concern re: exposure and appreciate the advice you've given. I understand if you do not wish to attend to the conversation until you feel it's been done correctly. smile

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
A
April78 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
@brainhurts

How do I get access to my radio conversation with Dr Harley from last Thursday?

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Here are the segments for just your show, in case others don't have time to listen to the whole show.

Radio Clip of April78's show
Segment 2

I listened to this when it first came on but one thing that I did want to note is that Dr Harley advised exposure and he wasn't even aware that this was a 4 year affair in which your H talked to the OW through work email and that avenue hasn't even been closed.

That the EP that has been set up regarding this is that your H will come to you with OW's email should she reach out to him again.



Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
The fact that you refuse to follow exposure when that's what 95% of this 10 page thread is about and what Dr Harley urged you to do is very sad.

It's going to take another d-day before you GET how important this is.

And this is a false recovery, I am very sorry to tell you frown

Last edited by SusieQ; 07/16/14 02:38 PM.

Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448

4 yr affair - condition that allowed affair still exists
No exposure

---------------- >

False Recovery


We would be doing you no favors to pat you on the back and not warn you for the train that is coming.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
Originally Posted by April78
@SuzieQ

Thank you for the two threads you bumped for me. They were helpful in improving my understanding. I do appreciate it.

The whole point of the two threads is that skipping steps and cutting corners doesn't work with MB.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448

You have moved on to the business of marriage rebuilding....

when you haven't even completed Step 1, exposure and NC w/EPs to prevent affair from reigniting.

You seem to think your WH is different and won't do this to you. WRONG!


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,351
Likes: 3
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,351
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by April78
@brainhurts

How do I get access to my radio conversation with Dr Harley from last Thursday?
Here you go. Radio Clip of 7-10-14

Will you please answer SusieQ's points?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,351
Likes: 3
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,351
Likes: 3


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by April78
@My thought is, it was easy before--what's really different now?? I've asked him--so, what happens the next time you're in a funk? You don't know you won't fall into this situation again with her or anyone else.

You should be making sure that it is different now by changing his contact information. As long as she can get through, you are in danger. That is the whole purpose of extraordinary precautions.

And am I understanding this correctly that you did not follow Dr Harley's advice and expose the affair?

Quote
I want to reassure you that I am not fully reassured by his "lack of interest" in her.

That is good to hear, because it is important that you understand this is meaningless. He will always show you a lack of interest. If he is interested, he will not tell you. His interest, or lack thereof, will never protect you from an affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
A
April78 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
@SusieQ

I'm going to answer your thoughts in the order they were written:

Re: Dr Harley's knowledge of details; he does know it was a 4 year, long distance affair; this was described in the original email read on the radio show, in emails between myself and Joyce after that email and again in the radio show in which I called in. The work related issue was that of physical mail he was receiving at work. Email was sent via a secret gmail account on his iPhone. This account was deleted; in fact I deleted the entire Google account and then tested it to be sure. I collected her work and private email addresses and blocked them from his regular email which I have complete access to via our iPad mini at home. I check it a million times a day. The next step is to change the address all together. As far as work mail and packages: she did send a card immediately (it took about a week to arrive). We returned it to sender and wrote a letter of no contact. It is NOT usual for employees in his position to receive any mail. Coworkers were rather suspicious of his receiving mail and his supervisor made comment on it. I haven't decided whether to speak to his supervisor or the mail room clerk. He is seeking a new job and then she won't have his address at all. Additionally, we have deleted apps and web browsers on his phone. He's offered to be rid of it if it would make me more comfortable. I am currently looking into options for monitoring his web usage on his phone. We blocked her phone numbers on his cell; of course I know she an call from anywhere so I also check our phone logs via the phone company every day. I scoured the Internet for listings of our names and had our info deleted from websites like the Whitepages so that she has a harder time figuring out our home address. We have blocked her on Facebook and I have constant access to his account via the iPad at home. I have a list of all of his passwords. As far as daily activities, we speak on his every break and he comes home immediately after work. He no longer goes to the gym because he used to use that time to contact her. He is no longer allowed to spend the night w friends bc he once used that as cover. A couple of times he took time off from work to see her. Now I have his pay stubs and will account for his every moment of time off and will confirm his appointments, etc.

Re: exposure: Dr Harley recommended that we tell our son and my mom. So that is the plan. I will discuss with him again how far and wide he thinks it needs to go.

Re: marital repair: my understanding is that marital repair begins the moment the affair is discovered. Yes, there are steps to end the affair but at the same time you should stop Love Busters and work to meet each others needs. Certainly, moving forward completely can't occur until the affair is completely behind you but I don't recall reading or hearing that you can't begin to work on pressing issues before then. I'm not going to ignore my husband until every detail has been dealt with. But I do understand your point that this can't be truly put behind us until all measures are taken.





Last edited by April78; 07/17/14 07:22 AM.
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
A
April78 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
(I recently went through blood and urine testing for every STD under the sun; all came back clean. My husband is doing the same.)

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956
Likes: 1
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by April78
@SusieQ

<<<<SNIP>>>>>

Re: marital repair: my understanding is that marital repair begins the moment the affair is discovered. Yes, there are steps to end the affair but at the same time you should stop Love Busters and work to meet each others needs. Certainly, moving forward completely can't occur until the affair is completely behind you but I don't recall reading or hearing that you can't begin to work on pressing issues before then. I'm not going to ignore my husband until every detail has been dealt with. But I do understand your point that this can't be truly put behind us until all measures are taken.

Recovery doesn't actually begin until the affair is over. Plan A is when the betrayed spouse not only exposes the affair widely but also eliminates love busters and expresses the willingness to meet the ENs once the affair is over. Very often, the BS cannot meet the ENs of the wayward because the wayward simply will not allow it. Also, it's very painful for the BS to do so while the affair is ongoing. But expressing the willingness to do so once the affair is over is important.

After the affair is over, EPs must be put in place and the wayward spouse must commit to a plan of recovery.


Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010

Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
That's a real common error. Most generally think affairs end and therefore recovery starts when the A is discovered.

Actually it barely slows the A down in most cases. Even when the A is over and done with, it can be weeks before recovery starts.

If you want recovery to start, recovery conditions must be in place.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
A
April78 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
@susieQ

Regarding the (E)Ps I've described, do you think they need to go even further?

@indiegirl

perhaps we aren't in recovery as we are still chipping away at the mess. I still get feelings of panic. What I do though is to act on those feelings. I hadn't considered, for example, that he'd be using private browsing. As soon as I realized it, I told him to delete those browsers which he did so willingly. He doesn't "like" that he has to take those steps but complies bc he wants me to feel comfortable. I've told him that he may not ever use these things in an inappropriate way but I don't want the temptation to be there nor do I want to have to wonder.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
Originally Posted by April78
@susieQ

Regarding the (E)Ps I've described, do you think they need to go even further?


Yes I suggest what SugarCane posted to you:

Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by April78
I am terrified that he will do it again. I KNOW that they can contact each other should they choose. Short of locking him up, I cannot guarantee anything. He has her phone number memorized. If he wants to call her from another phone, he could.

The fact is, I feel a total lack of control because he is a person with free will. I can take all of the steps you propose and, lets face it, he can still do it.
This is entirely true. The only way for you to guarantee NC would be for you to be with him 24 hours per day for the rest of his life.

What you can do, though, instead of wringing your hands, is take all the steps that we tell you to take. The two things that you are evading or ignoring are the most significant things you could do to prevent a recurrence.

1. Expose to your son and your wider families. This will give you both support, and it will increase accountability. Your H will not want to hurt his son again.

2. Expose the affair properly at work. My suggestion, that you thanked me for, was not to tell the mailman, who is not in a position of authority and cannot discipline your H. My suggestion was for you to tell your H's line management and get their help to monitor his activities. Your H would be taking a big risk if he defied their authority.

If your H's shameful secret is known to his employers, to your son and to his parents, and if his employers monitor his workplace activity with a view to disciplinary action should he exploit their resources again, and if your H THEN goes out of his way to buy a secret pre-paid affair phone, or starts visiting internet cafes to send emails, or uses public telephone boxes to contact his whore, then you will need to separate from him.

However, if you leave open the easy means of communication that he has been using so far, and if you don't expose, you are not even trying to put a serious stop to this. You are just giving your H carte blanche to do as he pleases.

All of us would have an affair under certain circumstances (these vary for each of us). If it is easy to have an affair because it is easy to communicate and nobody can see, quite a lot of people will have one (60% of married people already do) and somebody who is already in an affair will simply continue it.

If it is hard to have an affair, those who go out of their way to screw over their spouses are seriously problematic and need to be separated from. You don't know which class your H is in yet, but start by making it hard for him. You'll probably stop the affair with the measure we have given you. You have a very high chance of doing so. You have a very low chance of doing so if you do not expose at to your son, your families and at work.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,351
Likes: 3
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,351
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by April78
(I recently went through blood and urine testing for every STD under the sun; all came back clean. My husband is doing the same.)
Have you exposed to their workplace?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
Originally Posted by April78
@SusieQ

<<<<SNIP>>>>>

Re: marital repair: my understanding is that marital repair begins the moment the affair is discovered. Yes, there are steps to end the affair but at the same time you should stop Love Busters and work to meet each others needs. Certainly, moving forward completely can't occur until the affair is completely behind you but I don't recall reading or hearing that you can't begin to work on pressing issues before then. I'm not going to ignore my husband until every detail has been dealt with. But I do understand your point that this can't be truly put behind us until all measures are taken.

I didn't say to ignore your H.

This is what I said:

Originally Posted by SusieQ
You have moved on to the business of marriage rebuilding....

when you haven't even completed Step 1, exposure and NC w/EPs to prevent affair from reigniting.


Originally Posted by Dr Harley
In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
A
April78 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 57
As far as his work place is concerned, I do not believe anything he did at work violated their policies. (I used to work there myself and I don't recall any such thing.) He wasn't using their phones or email. He only communicated w her on breaks via his personal cell. And if she sends him a letter despite his no-contact letter that isn't his fault. What I want to prevent is him getting the letters especially without my knowledge. I wonder if the mail room can legally intercept his mail? Perhaps I can have his supervisor tell the mail room that any personal mail for him needs to go through the supervisor?

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
Originally Posted by April78
@susieQ

Regarding the (E)Ps I've described, do you think they need to go even further?

The first thing I would recommend is that you go back and re-read all of SugarCane's posts to you. She really tried to impress upon you the issues you are facing with a (a) long term affair, (b) a OW who doesn't give up and (c) them having the ability to communicate while he as work.

I don't think you really got it because you then later went on to forward posts from MB to your H, etc.

Is he following this thread?


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Page 8 of 10 1 2 6 7 8 9 10

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 19 guests, and 90 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Overcomer4513, caraduke, Convict20, GTNY, Avianna
71,737 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,550
Posts2,322,810
Members71,737
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5