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tig,

Will your wife agree to the online MB program? My H had an affair that was similar to yours, with a active duty soldier. He also had contact a few months after discovery of the affair and a lot of really horrible months.

You said that you are 45 and retired? Did you retire from the military? Do you have employment now? 45 is way too young for a man to not have work.

Have you read about lovebusters? Have you eliminated all lovebusters, i.e. for wayward the two big ones are dishonesty and independent behavior (having a secret second life)?


AM


BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
tjg13 #2818267 09/03/14 05:55 PM
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Tig,
Understand that infidelity is the most painful thing a betrayed spouse will experience in his or her lifetime. So just know that it is going to take a long time for your wife's hurt and anger to subside, and it won't go away if you do not provide her with what Dr. Harley calls "just compensation."

You have taken many right steps in coming clean and owning this. But you need to understand your wife's feelings. I recommend you watch this video: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html

Ask your wife to read the book "Surviving an Affair" with you. Within its a pages is a pathway out of the rubble of your broken marriage.

tjg13 #2818286 09/03/14 09:21 PM
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Listen to these clips. Beware of Bad Counselors


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



tjg13 #2818294 09/04/14 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tjg13
BTW, Should i even bother to continue to see my therapist? cause the members here said it wont help and actually waste time.
I cant afford either of those options now.

What are you seeing the therapist for?
If it is war related, like PTSD or you are having nightmares of war or having a hard time adjusting then certainly continue to go.

But if it is solely for your marriage, like a marriage therapist then your efforts would probably be best spent focusing on Dr. Harley's program.

Is the therapist a VA counselor?


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Originally Posted by armymama
tig,

Will your wife agree to the online MB program? My H had an affair that was similar to yours, with a active duty soldier. He also had contact a few months after discovery of the affair and a lot of really horrible months.

You said that you are 45 and retired? Did you retire from the military? Do you have employment now? 45 is way too young for a man to not have work.

Have you read about lovebusters? Have you eliminated all lovebusters, i.e. for wayward the two big ones are dishonesty and independent behavior (having a secret second life)?


AM

Yes, i agree. It was a problem for me having too much free time on my hands.
Its not good for anyone IMO.
Been reading all the info on this site last few days.


WH-45
BS - 44
Married 23 years
2 children
1 - 14 years old
1 - 21 years old

Married still but talking living apart / divorce

tjg13 #2818535 09/05/14 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tjg13
...Started working on meeting her emotional needs as well.
So, what are her top emotional needs? Do you know them well enough to list 'em?

And you're right: Idle time is a vulnerability.
What are you doing to repurpose that time?


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Originally Posted by GloveOil
Originally Posted by tjg13
...Started working on meeting her emotional needs as well.
So, what are her top emotional needs? Do you know them well enough to list 'em?

And you're right: Idle time is a vulnerability.
What are you doing to repurpose that time?

The problem is now.. my wife says its "too late" for that now.
Every time i try to meet those needs, tell her I'm sorry, i love you, walk away instead of fighting, she just drags up the past things I've done wrong again and again..

She is very cold and nasty now. I told her to post here but so far, nothing.
I truly am remorseful, sorry for ALL the things I've done, etc.
I can totally understand how hurt and angry she is now but what can i do if she is unwilling at this point to work things out?

Maybe you and the others have some advice?

Its destroying me. She says she can't even be around me anymore and we were always together just about everyday before this.

I was never out all night or stuff like that. I just went through a very bad emotional time mentally in the last 6-8 months and made very bad choices in that time.

When i started to have a lot of free time, all theses things from my past ( being abandoned by my mom, etc ) stuff like that all of a sudden came over me like a storm?? I have no idea why either? I resented my wife for not being there for me and i isolated myself from her. Pushed her away emotionally.
The OW whom i had the EA with, was just an escape i think from that pain i felt?

Not sure, but I've never done anything like that before nor was interested in any other woman but my wife. Never.

Our sex life was great, and i truly loved her with all my heart. I don't know why i started that EA with OW.


Hopefully some of you can help.


To the earlier poster, no, I don't have any PTSD but many of my team mates do. I know what thats like. Some of my buds are in bad shape mentally. Mostly cause of guilt i believe. I have a few in the wounded warrior program as well as a few other lesser known support groups.

Another poster asked me about Meds? I was taking ambien for awhile cause i couldn't sleep at all. I stopped recently ( about 4 months ago) I feel so alive now and this is all hitting me really hard.

Ive explained all these things to my wife but she just says its an excuse. She said she tried to work things out with me but i honestly don't remember it that way. She was just very angry and hurt all the time and i just avoided it and her.

I know thats a mistake but i can't take it back. I really am trying to apply the things I've learned on here.
The Love deposits / withdrawals.. Emotional needs as well recently.

Just seems like too little to late. IDK but we have 2 kids 21, and 14 I don't want to live without them nor do i want to be without my wife.
Hope some of you can see I'm very sincere.

But doesn't it take 2 to work things out??

Thanks again members.
I respect you all who reconciled and are in a better marriage cause of it.
Its def a hard task to accomplish.


t


WH-45
BS - 44
Married 23 years
2 children
1 - 14 years old
1 - 21 years old

Married still but talking living apart / divorce

tjg13 #2818606 09/06/14 10:57 PM
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How about writing Dr. Harley and having both you and your BW on the show together?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I will. Thank you.


WH-45
BS - 44
Married 23 years
2 children
1 - 14 years old
1 - 21 years old

Married still but talking living apart / divorce

tjg13 #2818612 09/07/14 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tjg13
I will. Thank you.
You're welcome and let us know what they tell you.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



tjg13 #2818628 09/07/14 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tjg13
I truly am remorseful, sorry for ALL the things I've done, etc.
I can totally understand how hurt and angry she is now but what can i do if she is unwilling at this point to work things out?

Even if you are remorseful, it is your ACTIONS not your FEELINGS that will change how your wife feels about you now.

Twice now you have said that you 'totally understand' how she feels...but the reality is that you don't. As a mother, I can only imagine the pain of losing a child. But having never lost a child, I do not *really* 'totally understand' what thats like. Likewise, it is impossible for a WS to totally understand the pain that is caused by an A. You may be remorseful and come to terms with the damage it has caused, but you will never know the gut wrenching pain and agony. As a BS I would be insulted by you suggesting you do.

Originally Posted by tjg13
I was never out all night or stuff like that. I just went through a very bad emotional time mentally in the last 6-8 months and made very bad choices in that time.

The OW whom i had the EA with, was just an escape i think from that pain i felt?

Not sure, but I've never done anything like that before nor was interested in any other woman but my wife. Never.

I continue to get a hint of you downplaying your A. For instance, now multiple times you have referred to your A as a friendship or EA, but in your original post you said you had sex with this woman. So this was not a friendship nor an EA, but a full fledged PA. An affair. Also you have multiple times said that this was the ONLY time you have done this, which comes across to me again as you downplaying the situation. Once is all it takes to cause destruction to your family.

I know you said you own this, but I read some things from your posts that as a BS I would be insulted by. I am trying to make you aware of this, so that you choose your words more carefully to your BW.

Originally Posted by tjg13
Hope some of you can see I'm very sincere.

It really doesn't matter what we see. Your goal here is to pay just compensation to your wife after devastating her, not convince an anonymous group that you are sincere.

Dr Harley says that a WW does not necessarily need to show complete remorse for recovery to happen, but a WH generally needs to be 'hat in hand' for a BW to want to recover. You need to Plan A like never before, there are many men on this forum who have Plan A'd for a very long time and are experts at it who could be very valuable resources to you. Right now you cannot expect your wife to meet you half way, if she is talking about leaving then she will not do that. You need to lure her back by continuing to meet her needs and not commit LB's for as long as it takes to build her LB up for you again. Can you do that?

Also, the greatest way to repair a low LB is to spend time together, giving each other your undivided attention. Is this something she will do? Dr Harley recommends 15 hrs a week to maintain romantic love, but 20-25 hrs a week to restore romantic love. If she is willing, you would want to work toward the 20-25 hrs/wk of UA time.

Would you be able to schedule a trip with her, and would she go? This is a great way to kickstart spending a great deal of time together.

tjg13 #2818630 09/07/14 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tjg13
Originally Posted by GloveOil
[quote=tjg13]...Started working on meeting her emotional needs as well.
So, what are her top emotional needs? Do you know them well enough to list 'em?

And you're right: Idle time is a vulnerability.
What are you doing to repurpose that time?

Originally Posted by tjg13
The problem is now.. my wife says its "too late" for that now.
Every time i try to meet those needs, tell her I'm sorry, i love you, walk away instead of fighting, she just drags up the past things I've done wrong again and again.
You didn't answer my question, tjg. I asked you what her needs are.

Originally Posted by tjg13
She is very cold and nasty now. I told her to post here but so far, nothing.
She's afraid of being vulnerable. She's angry and she's hurt, and all the more so because the hurt came from the one person in the world who she most expected to have her six covered. That doesn't get better in just 4 months.

Originally Posted by tjg13
I truly am remorseful, sorry for ALL the things I've done, etc. I can totally understand how hurt and angry she is now but what can i do if she is unwilling at this point to work things out?
One thing you can do is admit to yourself that you probably haven't realized the half of how hurt & angry she is. There are lots of layers of hurt & angry. You 'get' some of it; but it took me about 8 months to unpeel the onion enough to get down close to it, and closer to 2 years before I got about as far as there was to get.

Originally Posted by tjg13
I was never out all night or stuff like that. I just went through a very bad emotional time mentally in the last 6-8 months and made very bad choices in that time.
So what? I was always an upstanding family man, home-for-dinner, good dad, hard worker, and the whole time I was in the affair, I slept by my wife's side every single night. Your affair was actually pretty garden-variety, not very different from a milliopn other affairs. Your having been a good guy prior to the affair, or during it, doesn't have any bearing on how much it hurts. Heck, maybe it makes it hurt more for her -- you set a high standard, and then you failed it, just like I did.

Originally Posted by tjg13
When i started to have a lot of free time, all theses things from my past (being abandoned by my mom, etc ) stuff like that all of a sudden came over me like a storm?? I have no idea why either? I resented my wife for not being there for me and i isolated myself from her. Pushed her away emotionally.

The OW whom i had the EA with, was just an escape i think from that pain i felt?

Not sure, but I've never done anything like that before nor was interested in any other woman but my wife. Never.

Our sex life was great, and i truly loved her with all my heart. I don't know why i started that EA with OW.
I'll give you a shortcut: You got selfish. Thats it. It's not a real satisfying explanation, but it's about as close to the truth as you can get. It wasn't because your mom abandoned you -- plenty of people whose parents abandoned them don't cheat on their spouses, so there's no point in suggesting mitigating circumstances. In fact, the act of suggesting mitigating circumstances is counterproductive. Can you guess why?

No need to guess -- I'll gve you another shortcut, tjg: It's because, when you suggest mitigating circumstances, that casts some of the blame for your infidelity outside you. That suggests to your wife that you probably remain susceptible to the caprice of events, and that you're not fuly owning it. It says to her, "He cheated because circumstances got bad, so if circumstances get bad again, he may cheat again." And that provides her with exactly zero reassurance for the future. Zilch.

So, what should you do? For starters, fully own it. Own the affair. Acknowledge that the one & only reason you did it was because you let yourself get selfish. Once you acknowledge that, you'll be in a better position to demonstrate -- with actions, not devalued words -- that you're recommitted to not letting it happen again. That may give you a beachhead from which you can start to help her feel emotionally-safe again with you. It will take more than 4 months, and more than 8. And there are no guarantees that she'll be on-board.


Originally Posted by tjg13
But doesn't it take 2 to work things out??
Yes, but: at this stage, you need to do the heavy lifting. There are no guarantees that she'll respond. Yes, eventually, you'll both need to be all-in, if you want to get to the goal of having a better marriage post-affair than you had pre-affair (and that need to be your goal, because the pre-affair marriage obviously wasn't strong enough). For now, the last thing you can afford to do is to make your efforts conditional upon reciprocity from her -- if you do, it will guarantee that your marriage won't make it.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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I get really tired of the 'I was a good guy right up to doing the worst thing I could do' speech on these forums.

If you had been an out-all-night guy or an obvious sleaze your wife would have been just as hurt, but with something of a heads up to prepare her.

This way as well as the agony of betrayal you also get the sucker punch of shock. Of wondering how you did not know this about your own husband.

Your wife is being 'cold' because she can hardly move or think due to shock.

Also, she doesn't have to do, or be anything. She was betrayed she can waltz off to a divorce lawyer and never take your calls ever again. She has biblical cause for a divorce and it certainly a good cure for the pain. It's what I did and it surely works out very well when you can't see much action going on to save the marriage.

If she isn't going to cure her pain by leaving then you have to cure her pain with action. Not talking about 'remorse' -but doing it. And doing it without waiting for her to spoon feed you and become your recovery cheerleader.

She's in too much pain to give a crap about the fact you need encouragement.

So thank the stars Gloveoil is on your thread and ACT.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by GloveOil
In fact, the act of suggesting mitigating circumstances is counterproductive. That suggests to your wife that you probably remain susceptible to the caprice of events, and that you're not fuly owning it. It says to her, "He cheated because circumstances got bad, so if circumstances get bad again, he may cheat again." And that provides her with exactly zero reassurance for the future. Zilch.


This.is the nutshell. Every time you tell her that stuff you can't control causes affairs she packs that mental suitcase some more.

The way to avoid affairs is to not have them. Don't spend time away from your wife. Don't have close friendships with women.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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