Yes I am listening not as much as I should but before work and after work in the car, it seems I am so busy when I get home that I do not have much time for anything lol.

With both of my DDs, the one DDs BF, me, my H and we also have a blind, diabetic friend of the family who lives with us that we take care of things are sometimes pretty crazy in the evenings around our house.

Imagine how much time she would have to flirt if she had to buy all her own groceries and do her laundry etc. Even if she does, there are time saving benefits to living at home with many hands making light work.

I'm not going to tell you she shouldn't be living at home etc, because I know my parents house is my home whenever I need it to be. I also know I'd have to earn my keep, and that I'd have to be living a life that was pleasing to my parents while under their roof.

Worth considering then how much circumstances have changed since she moved in and if it still pleases your giver. She moved in under the guise of commitment and saving and the giver in you was happy because you thought you were helping your daughter toward a life you approved of.

Now it's not the same at all and your giver must feel swindled - it must! All the help you have toward that goal and now she is living a life you do NOT want to witness under your roof.

I don't think she did anything wrong other than mistake an inclination to marry in the future for the real deal of marital commitment.

As others have said, she didn't commit adultery. However living together creates an abusive set up where there's no commitment, but expectations nevertheless. It's common for this to degrade character and Dr H describes it in his article on people who are living together.

My guess is her behaviour changed due to the living situation and could change again if her living situation changed.

If she either had to care for herself, or earn her keep in your home, without a live in ex boyfriends help, she would expect a lot more of her next boyfriend and of herself.

Indie I think you hit the nail on the head for sure. I am not sure yet what to do about it. As I have said before I don't think I can make her move out.

I do however have to come up with some way to make it less easy on her for sure. Right now I am not sure what that is going to be but it HAS to be something. And the ex will be gone soon so she will only have one income which will kill her.

Indie has a way of hitting the nail on the head :-)

I have three children of a similar age to yours. I was tempted to let them continue to live with me. As time has gone on I have learned how selfish that feeling was on my part. It is essential for our children not just to move out but to live financially independent lives. My two daughters have both done that. Of course, they can come back in a crisis, they know that.

My son got stuck and it was my fault. He lived in my London flat whilst he attended university. I let him continue to live there with a girlfriend that waited on him hand and foot after he graduated so that he could develop his business. That, of course, was disastrous as the need to put a roof over your head is the greatest incentive to make things happen. I did him no favours and he is now out of there.

Get your older daughter up and out. Nothing like a bit of sibling rivalry to get things moving along :-)

While I understand what you are saying I would not do that to the eldest DD either. As I said before she is giving almost to a fault.

She has lived on her own most of her adult life but has had very poor choices in BFs. She took care of them rather than them taking care of her. She now has a good BF for probably the first time ever but not that long ago she lost her job (layoff) so when her lease ran out she moved in with us.

She now has another job and is getting back on her feet and I am sure she is ready to get back to get own place soon anyway. Her and I work different shifts so I really only see her on weekends.

And unfortunately I doubt it will change the selfish DD one bit, I think once the exBF is gone she will have a rude awakening.

Providing housing for temporary respite is terrific but it can also be terribly destructive. I have found that one year is the magic number. If you help for longer than that, the help becomes a lifestyle and damages the person you are helping.

Neither of them have been there for one year yet, the selfish DD has been there for 7 months and the eldest DD has been there for 8 months.

I think the eldest wants to wait until after the holidays since they are now upon us already and she will be leaving.

As I said before since the selfish DD plans have now changed I am not positive when she is leaving now. We still have not sat down to have a heart to heart about her new plans as we have been focusing on getting the exBF out.

Good so you can tell them both that they max out at 12 months. But only if you and DH have done a POJA and agree that this is the best outcome for you both :-)

What does your DH say about all of this? Have you POJA with him?

My DH says the same thing I say, he is still upset with me for making the exBF leave because he thinks our DD did him wrong.

As far as when to make them leave it is not something either of us have really discussed. We thought this DD had a plan and our other DD like I said we do not see her so we don't even realize she is there lol. Plus we both know we do not have to worry about that DD, only the selfish one.

So you don't practice POJA in your marriage?

I am not sure where this even came from. Yes we practice POJA, he is okay LETTING the exBF leave he just is UPSET like I was at our DD.

And we POJA'd the girls moving in but neither of us put a time limit on how long they were staying.

It came from here

If your DH is upset with you, you did not POJA the issue of exBF's departure. POJA is brilliant and two heads are always better than one :-)

I guess I should have chosen my words more carefully. He is not mad and we agreed to have the exBF leave.

He is however upset at our DD and the first day was extremely MAD and told me to have her move out instead of the exBF.

After we both cooled down we decided that the correct decision was to have the exBF leave.

So we did POJA the whole thing, he is like me however still just upset at our DD for this whole mess.

Like LW pointed out from your own words it seemed like you don't POJA, but now you've cleared it up.

I'm still confused why you and your DH allow your adult daughter to live with you when she causes so much pain. Why isn't she be told to leave and live her bad choices on her own?

She is here because we were trying to help her save money, which she did, and had plans to marry. Now she does not have plans to marry however it just occurred less than a month ago.

I am not making excuses for my DD we have allowed her to stay here, since she was in middle school she has been somewhat selfish and as her mother I have tried to get that our of her. I have always told my kids life is not "fair" and things don't always go your way but you have to make the best with what you have.

This DD however still does not get that message and thinks everything should always be get way. Now why I certainly agree with all of you that the easiest and probably even best solution is to just kick her out.

However the mother in me just won't do that. Yet I don't want to make it easy on her either. I really hate that she left this guy but she did and now me and my H have to figure out the best tough love that I can do because I cannot make her leave now. She has to get on her feet after this too.

Even if it is her choice to be in the situation she is now in she still just ended a five year relationship and I think she needs to figure some things out too. I just wish I could somehow steer her somewhere that would help her get rid of somee of her selfishness or else she may end up a lonely person and I do not want that for her.

Have you, at the vert least, given her a date she needs to be out by?

after POJA ing it with DH of course

We have not, all we have been doing lately is splitting up all of her and the exBF stuff. He is leaving next weekend.

She had to get a car and he had to find a place we have been going through their stuff in storage and she still has to get her own cell phone plan and a couple of other things that I cannot remember right now.

Me and my DH have discussed it and since she is now basically starting all over again we are not sure "how" much time that should be.

I still want to find some book or something that she may relate to that could help her understand how selfish she is though, because she will never have a good relationship the way she is now.

Getting her a book is disrespectful on your part because it implies that you are trying to educate her. Different if she asked for a book.

The best way to help her is for you to have a fabulous relationship with her father with no independent behavior.

For example, if she sees you two negotiating all issues respectfully, and she sees how well that works for both of you, she will learn to do that too. Actions are far more powerful than words and your actions as her mother are more powerful than any other.