But SC, do you see any irony here?

Everyone agrees the birdie needs a push out of the nest, less invasive involvement from mama bird, but.... You don't want to do that for your personal reasons of keeping her close/letting her face reality.

So really, the apple doesn't far fall, does it? Why would she make non-selfish steps and heed you, when you dont do the same.

Every spoiled self-centered one living at home at 24 has at least one parent who doesn't want them out for some personal reason or another. I think until you own that this is a lot of your own hovering, not much will change, will it?

Well, you are asking for advice and you don't want to hear it. As an outsider, this IS a part of the problem.

My daughter is 18 and moved five hrs away to college. We are still close, I love being involved and we text frequently....but I know no where near any of the microdetails of her life as you do of your children, nor would I expect to. She has grown up a lot in the short time she has been gone. (and HELL no would she ever be allowed to move a bf or spouse into my house. HELL NO!)

I want to point out that while preparing for college, a vocational rehab counselor told me that he was very impressed that I was not overly involved and that I was making my daughter handle everything herself - that in his role he sees parents that are overly involved and it cripples their children.

You are crippling your child and you can't even see it.

I guess I can't see the forest for the trees, she lived on her own and it changed nothing.

She handled everything about going to college and getting her own place (two different places), she bought her own car. I was not involved in any of these things.

Me and my kids are close, we talk all the time about everything. And I guess i just do not understand how making her live on her own is going to better prepare her to have a relationship and not be so self centered.

Heck my DH is 57 years old and he is still self centered to a degree (where she learned it I guess), I do not want that for my child and I have gotten through to her on many things.

I just do not know how to say without hurting her the reason your exBF didn't marry you and this other guy doesn't like you is that you are a self centered b#%$*.

I can't and won't do that, there has to be something that I can tell her or send her to read or something that will make her look at herself.

LTL I guess maybe you are right and I can do nothing for her and she will have to figure it out on her own, I just do so hate to think of her never having a good relationship.

Also I am just as close with my other DD and my DS (except he is a boy and does not talk about feelings a lot).

My eldest DDs BF does not live with us nor does my DS and his wife but I can tell you as much about their realtionship as I can this DD.

Your daughter and your husband are not selfish. They do what they feel is in their own best interest, and you are being disrespectful when you engage in name-calling like labeling their behavior "selfish."

None of these problems can get better as long as you reserve the right to be disrespectful like this.

There is nothing wrong with a person acting in their own self-interest. What is wrong is when you are willing to take what you want at the expense of other people. This is what happens when a person listens to their Giver and tries to ignore their Taker as you tend to do - they don't act to prevent the other person from getting what they want in a way that is hurtful. Then they resent the other person for doing it.

The solution is to not let people do things that you are not enthusiastic about. Unfortunately you are committed to the damaging practice of sacrifice, and the result is your own mounting resentment.

I looked at your posting history and people here have been trying to get through to you for years about how damaging sacrifice is, but you have always proudly defended your belief in sacrifice. I guess it gives you something to feel proud about and perhaps makes you feel like you are better than your husband and daughter. Since we haven't been able to persuade you, I hope that anyone reading along will see how your belief in sacrifice has led to this situation that is making you so resentful, and will learn to avoid it.

Her current version of a Good Relationship is probably diametrically opposed to your concept. She's young and she needs to make mistakes to learn from still.

Don't deny her the opportunity to learn how to grow up and be independent. Now, some could say that would be very selfish of you, albeit with the most loving intentions.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

LTL

Your goal is to teach your daughter NOT to act in her own best interest.

Fortunately she is smart enough not to listen.

There isn't.

Leave her alone and start working on yourself.

I do not think either of you know what my goal is and I have left her alone.

You act like I am talking to her every night about what I want her to do.

I do not tell her what I want her to do EVER.

And maybe you should work on yourself too.....

Your goal is to convince her to not be "selfish."

This is not a good goal. She is wise to ignore it.

She should be selfish in your opinion. That is the craziest thing I have ever heard in my life.

I do not know why you all seem to think I do not let her make her own decisions, I do not ever tell her what to do (since she has become an adult) and like I said before if she did not think I did a good job at giving her advice then why in the world would she keep coming back for more and not go somewhere else to get it.

And no matter where she lives I will have the same worries and want the same things for her and try to help her in the same way that I am right now.

I realize she has to make her own mistakes she has made plenty of them (and i have as well) and learned from most of them. She is just a self centered person who thinks everything should go her way and most people (besides me and her dad) let her get away with it because they do not want the rath of my DD brought upon them.

I have no problem setting her in her place when she gets selfish and unreasonable with me. She makes my eldest DD cry about once a month because of her selfishness.

The whole problem is that "selfish" is just a disrespectful label. You believe that sometimes people should sacrifice - do something that they do not feel is in their own best interest. When they aren't willing to do that, you call them "selfish."

This belief of yours is leading to conflict and resentment, and I hope that everybody reading along can see that, and I hope that some day you understand that people should not sacrifice and should act in a way that takes care of themselves and should not apply disrespectful labels to others like "selfish." I am glad that your daughter seems to be ignoring your view on this, because it would lead to sorrow for her as well. If she were posting here, I would advise her to avoid discussing any issues with you as long as you think of her this way.

The problem is you have a faulty value system where people should sacrifice. You DON'T really want what's best for people when you want them to sacrifice.

I have not denied her that she is independent other than living under my roof trust me there has never been a more independent person in the world

That is not true my DD is not a nice person, you do not know her and I am not exaggerating when I tell you that many many many people have told me that including my own family members.

And I do not want her to sacrifice anything I just want her to at least think about others sometimes not just alwyas do what DD wants.

She will come in and just turn the TV and my eldest DD is not "brave" enough to say anything, instead she will cry and go upstairs. If I am there I tell her what do you think you are doing I was watching that show to which she will reply "well when will it be over" in the worst tone you could possibly imagine and then it in the living room and sulk until my program is over.

And I have not talked to her about anything so I do not know how you figure I am trying to talk her into anything.

And did you not read however many pages ago that my eldest DD has the sacrificing issue and I did not like when she was doing that either.

She has finally decided she didn't like that and find a guy with whom she doesn't have to sacrifice anything and I couldn't be happier fir her.

And did you not read however many pages ago that my eldest DD has the sacrificing issue and I did not like when she was doing that either.

She has finally decided she didn't like that and find a guy with whom she doesn't have to sacrifice anything and I couldn't be happier fir her.

What I don't get is why you are on a Marriage Help forum blogging about your daughters.

You say you want advice, but then refuse to listen to it.

Maybe you need to start a blog. Or a diary.

You've been here 7 years and you don't know this?