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Greetings:
I am a FWH that is dedicated to recovery and am working diligently on recovery alone for now. My A lasted a year: 6 months as an EA and 6 months as a PA and ended via exposure/discovery in May 2014. We still live together peacefully with our two kids, but BW is not yet on-board with recovery and currently chooses not to make time to discuss the subject.

Before I give all the details, is it Open and Honest of me to post our story here without my BW's buy-in? I think we could really benefit from the wisdom displayed in these forums, but I will not betray her trust in any way. I can ask her permission but I don't want her to be afraid and I don't want her to feel like she has to be involved or is obligated to read what I am posting if she chooses not to for now. She is a very private person and may not like the idea of posting our story on a public forum. Is there a general policy about this? What are your thoughts?
Thanks in advance.

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This is a completely anonymous forum. No one will know who you are. Just leave out details like where you live, work, etc.

Have you read the book Surviving an Affair? Have you followed the steps listed in the book, such no contact with the OW, eliminate the conditions that led to the affair?

If your wife absolutely is against your posting your story on this anonymous forum, then I would advise against doing so, because you want to start following the POJA and earning back her trust. However, even if you don't post your situation, you can still read the articles and some of the threads.



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DDay Nov 2010

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WHs who are serious about recovery are almost as rare as unicorns.

If you've asked your wife's permission to post & she's said "no," then, don't post. You're following POJA, so that option would be off the table for you, for now & until she changes her stance.

At the time I started posting here, in August 2009, I didn't know enough to ask my wife's permission , and I posted for around 2 months before showing her the conversations I'd been in (at least, those which weren't lost in a server-crash back then which wiped out a couple of months' worth of everyone's posts). Had I asked her permission before showing up here, I might've denied myself (and ultimately her) access to some advice & perspectives & experience that ended up being valuable to us both, individually & as a couple.

We were 7+ months into recovery at the time, but I still had some partly screwed-up thinking to work through.

Be advised: There've been some WSs over the years who apparently have posted for the cosmetic purpose of "showing" their BSs how "serious" they are about recovery -- as if simply typing good intentions here will work some benefit in the recovery dynamic, or decoy the BS away from ongoing bad conduct by the WS. There've been other WSs who've come here convinced that their own side of the street is all squeaky-clean while the BS needs to do more work. If you're coming from either of those two angles (and I'm not saying that you are, 'cuz I don't know enough to be able to tell yet), those kinds of attitudes will get deconstructed pretty quickly here.

I'm mostly retired from posting. Others here can be of good advice, but if you have some questions, then sound off. If you're sincere, then you can find some good help here.

3 questions. (These aren't mere rhetorical questions. Serious people will give specific answers):
--Have you read SAA?
--What EPs have you put in place?
--How are you doing on UA time?



Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Originally Posted by All_In_FWH
BW is not yet on-board with recovery and currently chooses not to make time to discuss the subject.

I would go ahead and post your story. You don't have to divulge every little detail or anything that would identity you or BW. The road to recover from an affair is narrow. SInce D-day was six months ago, I would not let more time pass.

What have you done in the way of providing Just Compensation to your BW or implementing Extraordinary Precautions?

Welcome to MB


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Have you been tested for STDs?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Thanks for the replies. I spoke to my BW this morning briefly about my desire to post our story here. She is open to the idea but would like to see the website first. She said we could make time this weekend for this. So, this feels like a good first step.

I realize that without the full story, your ability to provide some guidance will be limited, but for now I will go ahead and answer some of the questions that pertain specifically to me that you all have already raised without divulging the details that I share with my BW.

Long Way:
I have not yet read �Surviving an Affair�, which I realize is a manual for MB, but I will. I have read (and printed out to share with BW) all of the Basic Concepts and I've read many of the articles and QA letters. I have also read several other books prior to finding MB that taught me many of the same concepts. I will give you all a book list in another post as I have found these books very helpful in my journey. I do have �His Needs, Her Needs� coming in the mail today. Thankfully, I have, without knowing I was following the steps, done many of the things described in the Basic Concepts though I have also made some serious mistakes.

Glove Oil
In honor of your comment and to help make myself accountable, I have changed my display name to �The_Unicorn�. ;-) I hope to show that I can be a strong member of this elite club of WHs who are truly serious about recovery. I realize that some WSs post in an effort to look like they are serious. While I can tell you that I am truly committed to my marriage, I realize my words are rightly suspect at this point, and that my actions must now speak for me. Frankly, as I�ve been reading the forum posts I am sometimes amazed at what some WSs will post. I can already see the logic holes in their rather weak arguments. My side of the street is filthy dirty and I�ve been working diligently to identify the problems and deal with them head on. It has been painful but fruitful, yet my pain is minuscule compared to the pain I have caused my BW. I am pleased with the fearless accountability that forum members like you offer. For EPs I could surely still do more and have created transparency and have been and am committed to being radically honest. I will wait for her approval to divulge more details. UA time is extremely limited for now, though even without her buy-in, we have made some progress with UA.

Black Raven:
In terms of Just Compensation, I have done much and there is surely more to do here as well, but I will defer the details to a later post. I realize the urgency of the situation and am glad to have found a plan and a community in MB that seems to actually make recovery look possible.

Brainhurts:
I tested negative for a full STD panel in early August. I had myself tested without waiting for BW to ask.

Thanks again for all the replies.

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Greetings:
I'm new to MB and just learning the concepts as I deal with recovering from my affair. This is a general marriage question. I have read many relationship books over the past several months. Many of these counselor\authors talk about the need for nurturing the Self in order to fully participate in marriage ("you are a person before you are a spouse"). I believe this concept and have realized that my lack of Self nurturing has become an issue for me. But, how do successful couples balance the need for nurturing the Self with UA time? Are they simply separate and we have to make time for both? Which one should be a priority?
Thanks.

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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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What does self nurturing mean exactly? That is not something that is necessary to create a great marriage. Most books on marriage don't have a plan for marriage recovery. The difference between Marriage Builders and other programs is that MB focuses on creating a romantic, passionate marriage. But, the steps are very precise and don't work well when you mix in every other dog and cat program.

We can help you create a fully recovered, fantastic marriage if you focus on the steps of Marriage Builders.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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That's fantastic that your BW is willing to check out the website. You both can also listen to MB radio and that is the absolutely best way to learn MB. If you listen to the "listen now" it replays the days show for 24 hours. The weekend replays the Friday's show.

Also, have you seen this?
What is Just Compensation?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by The_Unicorn
Greetings:
I'm new to MB and just learning the concepts as I deal with recovering from my affair. This is a general marriage question. I have read many relationship books over the past several months. Many of these counselor\authors talk about the need for nurturing the Self in order to fully participate in marriage ("you are a person before you are a spouse"). I believe this concept and have realized that my lack of Self nurturing has become an issue for me. But, how do successful couples balance the need for nurturing the Self with UA time? Are they simply separate and we have to make time for both? Which one should be a priority?
Thanks.

When you married you became integrated and one. This "Self" stuff sounds like psychobabble crap.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Thanks for merging my threads. This felt like a different topic, but I agree it really belongs together here.

Yes, BrainHurts. In fact I've read all of the Basic Concepts in detail, but perhaps I missed a discussion of the Self. So from a MB standpoint, the marriage is clearly the priority, UA and meeting ENs are the priority and the Self is secondary. I see how the intensity and clear focus of this policy can help people fall back in love and stay in love.

I am pondering the concept of the marriage being more important than the Self. Self-nurturing to me means spiritual understanding and knowing who I am and what I need and want and doing things that nurture that, which, come to think of it, IS covered under the meeting of ENs in some ways. I suspect this is really a philosophical\spirtual question that may not have one good "answer". I see that the MB key is clearly to have a strong marriage and the rest will follow. In the past I have tended to put the needs of others before my own and then felt resentful for it later when my own needs were not met.
I know I read somewhere here that outside hobbies and interests must take a back seat to the marriage or we become vulnerable to affairs. I may have just answered my own question.

As far as other books/programs, I have been touched by many of the other things I have read and when I feel this way I feel a need to integrate those ideas into who I am and what I do. But, I do see that the MB program is tried and true and tested and mixing programs would not work well. And, like Melody mentioned, none of the books I've read so far were very good at recovery anyway.

I'd love to hear how successful couples have maintained some of their own interests while building strong marriages.

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I realize now I just posted that a second time. I wasn't ready to post initially. Trying to get the hang of how this works. Thanks for your patience.

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I don't know where it is buried but there is a great post about "finding yourself" from long ago. Maybe one of the vets know where it is and can post a link to it. If "finding yourself" is what you are referring to as "self" then that is not something MB focuses on.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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"psychobabble crap"? Maybe. Then perhaps the simple question is now: Can some of you successful folks share how you maintain your own interests while building your strong marriages? I ask for myself but I suspect my BW will have the same question.

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Originally Posted by The_Unicorn
Greetings:
I'm new to MB and just learning the concepts as I deal with recovering from my affair. This is a general marriage question. I have read many relationship books over the past several months. Many of these counselor\authors talk about the need for nurturing the Self in order to fully participate in marriage ("you are a person before you are a spouse"). I believe this concept and have realized that my lack of Self nurturing has become an issue for me. But, how do successful couples balance the need for nurturing the Self with UA time? Are they simply separate and we have to make time for both? Which one should be a priority?
Thanks.

UA time DOES nurture my Self! laugh

Dr. Harley's position is that everybody needs an escape from the stresses of life, and that married people should plan their escape together. When UA time is done properly, it is the most enjoyable thing possible for both husband and wife. It functions as the nurturing that you are describing.

When Dr. Harley was in college, and in his early career, he was a workaholic. He rewarded himself at the end of his long work days with a date with someone. That was how he enjoyed himself. When the woman he wanted (Joyce) wasn't seeing him, he would go have a great time with someone else. Once he got married, he continued to plan those rewarding times with Joyce. That's why they were both always psychologically healthy despite his massive workload, and also why they had a great marriage.

I work hard every day, and my wife and I are raising seven children. We plan regular escapes: frequent dates together out of the house, as well as unwinding time at home every evening after the kids are asleep. This time to unwind fulfills the double function of keeping us each healthy (nurturing the self as you are describing) and also keeping our marriage happy. Healthy married people plan an enjoyable lifestyle together with lots to look forward to every day. It's wonderful!!!!!

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Thanks, markos. This sounds wonderful. I hope I can get there with my BW.

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What on this list has been done? What is left to do?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Do you own a copy of Surviving an Affair?


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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Originally Posted by The_Unicorn
"psychobabble crap"? Maybe. Then perhaps the simple question is now: Can some of you successful folks share how you maintain your own interests while building your strong marriages? I ask for myself but I suspect my BW will have the same question.

I have zillions of interests, and my wife has zillions of interests. Millions of those interests are common interests. Those are the ones we focus on the most.

Take a look at Dr. Harley's Recreational Companionship Inventory and his chapter on Recreational Companionship in His Needs Her Needs for a system for discovering common interests together.

Also you might want to check out these articles:
Following the policy of joint agreement when you're very incompatible
Why should a couple plan to be together when they are the happiest?
Recreational companionship boring or unpleasant #1
Recreational companionship boring or unpleasant #2
Recreational companionship boring or unpleasant #3

If your goal as a formerly wayward husband is to render just compensation to your wife, then you had best get very serious about building recreational compatibility with her. Your wife is essentially lying bleeding from a traumatizing wound and you are trying to figure out how to nurture yourself while your victim is dying. Focus on figuring out how to nurture HER; she is the one who needs it. By all means you must figure out how to do that in a way that is also enjoyable to you, so that you will be motivated to do it often. That is the challenge that you are up against - and it's really the challenge that every husband is up against.

And the solution is: schedule fifteen hours each and every week doing something that you BOTH enjoy together. Make it the best part of your week. Spend almost all of that time in enjoyable, fun conversation with your wife, conversation you both enjoy. Do that while also doing something you both enjoy. You will probably have some additional time during the week for other individual interests, but even if you don't, at least you will have both gotten the chance to enjoy an interest that you both share, and you'll find that that is all you need as an individual!

I don't get time to play my 8-bit 80's video games much any more, but I don't have a problem with that, because I have lots of other interests that my wife shares, and we have a GREAT time engaging in those things. And somehow I do it all while holding down a demanding job, raising seven children, and posting here frequently. smile

Here's what to practice in order to learn how to have enjoyable conversation with your wife:
Friends and enemies of good conversation


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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