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Originally Posted by black_raven
I don't know where it is buried but there is a great post about "finding yourself" from long ago. Maybe one of the vets know where it is and can post a link to it. If "finding yourself" is what you are referring to as "self" then that is not something MB focuses on.

"We need to be apart so I can find myself" What a cute little euphamism that is, finding yourself or finding out who you are.

Many of my dear friends here know that I am a big believer in using a gentle touch on those unfortunate souls who either "Need to find themselves" or "Need to find out who they are" before they can come home to their families.

So, as a public service to these unfortunate souls I have composed "Finding yourself for Dummies"

First, finding yourself...

1. If you can't find yourself, try looking in your shoes. More than likely you will be there.

2. Do not bother looking where your children or responsibilities are, though that would be a reasonable place to look we know you are not there.

3. If need be, go to the police station and give the desk sergeant an 8x10 or you and ask to have an APB put out since you can't find yourself.

4. Ask your child to point to their mom/dad, if you are not sure which one you are reach into your pants and feel around, if there is a penis there, you are dad, if not, you're probably mom.

Now one of these tried and true methods ought to help you find yourself, but it probable dark so let's help you see better. Reach behind you, palms facing you, arms hanging down and grab. That's your butt. Now reach in that and look for a large round object, that is your head. Now, with both hands pull as hard as you can. You are now performing recto-cranial extraction.

Okay, now you have found yourself. We are making progress here! Now we need to find out "who you are". This is not so hard. Look around the house - if there are one or more particularly short little people ask one of them, they are called children, they probably know the answer as it was one of their first two or 3 words. Not able to talk yet? No sweat.

Look for the full grown person with the red eyes who looks like they haven't slept in a while and look emaciated from hardly eating for months on end - they probably know. They aren't home??? let's keep looking for yourself.

Try looking in a desk or filing cabinet. Look for folders named "mortgage", "Utilities", Or "Marriage license". There will probably be two names here -you are one of those. So we have found you and narrowed it down to one of those two people.

Now look and see if there is a wallet around. Remember that? Little pocket sized leather folding thingy. Look for something that says drivers license. There should be a name. Now find a mirror (Glass thingy in the bathroom), look at the picture on the driver's license and the face in the mirror, if they match, the name on the license is WHO YOU ARE. If they don't, check those papers you found -then you are the other name.

Now that you have found yourself and know who you are go find the other full grown person in the house and introduce yourself. Start out with "I'm sorry I could not find myself or figure out who I was, I know now."

Next, knock off the drama, quit being melodramatic and start being mom/dad, husband/wife like you are supposed to and quit with the childish theatrics because the final piece is WHERE YOU ARE. This is called the real world where people depend on you to act like a grownup and keep track of details like who and where you are. The little people in the house are kinda sorta counting on you too.

If this doesn't work and you have to take a journey to answer these questions there is a chance that when you find yourself you will be alone, without a house, without a spouse, without children who love you and without a penny. That is how my XW found herself a year later. Trust me, my plan outlined earlier is better.

Ahhhhhhhhh.... okay, I needed to get that out since the day my X Wife took off into the sunset and another post yanked that rant out of me. If your Wayward Spouse tells you that they need time away to find themselves and discover who they are print it out for them. If they can't follow the directions make sure the door doesn't hit them in the rear and injure their head. There is a reason I harp on not putting up with crap from WS's who like to play little selfish games - if you indulge them they keep playing them.

I'm better now. Thanks for letting me take a good long vent... maybe I am finally getting my old, dead, buried, BS issues from the days before I met J out of my system.

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Originally Posted by The_Unicorn
Prisca, I will get back to the checklist later today. Thanks.

Come on, Unicorn - these are not hard questions to answer. Let's hear it!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Unicorn, you seem to be doing a bit of dancing.

You can speak in paragraphs about the book you read regarding finding your 'self' (and I agree that for a BW, seeing you read a book about finding your SELF instead of the obvious book 'Surviving an Affair' right after having an affair, would be totally insulting...)...but you don't have 10 seconds to answer whether you have done the items on the list of EPs.

And may I add, saying 'yes I have changed my email' does not provide ANY personal information about your story at all, so what is the big deal here?

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Originally Posted by The_Unicorn
...For EPs I could surely still do more and have created transparency and have been and am committed to being radically honest. I will wait for her approval to divulge more details. UA time is extremely limited for now, though even without her buy-in, we have made some progress with UA.
Hi again, Unicorn.

You're getting a lot of great advice here from everyone. I well recall that it can feel like recruit indoctrination day at Parris Island, having so many questions & suggestions [valid though they be] coming at you from all points of the compass. Take time to digest it. Don't feel you need to respond immediately to everything you read here.

Online, it's sometimes instinctive to read some of this stuff that you're hearing as if folks were yelling at you. Maybe once in awhile they are. I've been known to. But most of the time, it works best if a WS assumes that everything being said to him/her is being spoken at a concerned whisper, as friends might speak to you over a cup of coffee. That helps keep the defenses down & may allow some things to sink in better.

Assuring no-contact with the former affair partner, emplacing extraordinary precautions, practicing complete honesty with your spouse, and making time with your spouse for undivided attention to one another, are all huge. Some of this takes months of practice to get right. Some of it (especially the no-contact & EPs) need to be as ironclad as you can make 'em, ASAP.

Specifically, what extraordinary precautions have you put in place, to eliminate conditions that led to your affair, and that will protect your wife's wounded ability to feel emotionally safe with you? And what steps have you taken to ensure that there won't be any further contact with the former affair partner? These are things you can list without saying a lot about the affair. Five months past the affair, you should be able to rattle off a list of several in each category. This is really basic & fundamental to getting recovery right.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Thanks for the encouragement. It has definitely been an overwhelming response. It surely did not take me long to get myself into hot water! I am taking it all in, though. Thanks for the push. I am totally committed to doing this correctly and I�ve missed some things for sure. Here are my responses to the Ending the Affair checklist:

1. Yes. BW knows all details of A
2. No. I have not explicitly committed to never again see or talk to the OW to my BW. I have committed to this to her at least once in conversation, but I have not done this explicitly, especially by writing it down and reading it to her.
3. Yes. I wrote a letter (e-mail) ending the relationship and declaring NC and it was sent twice, once without BW approval at day 6 after D-day, and a final time with approval from BW five weeks later. That was our final contact.
4. I have taken some extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation but not all of them, yet:
a. No. I have not blocked all potential means of contact. Phone and texting are blocked. Emails not changed. FB account still exists, though OW was �un-friended�. Phone number not changed. I have verbally promised to immediately tell BW if OW tries to contact me.
b. No. I have not fully accounted for my time, nor has BW.
c. No. A full account of money spent has not been addressed.
d. No. We currently spend only limited leisure time together. I am very willing, spouse is unsure. I am currently following her lead. I am present as much as I can be.
e. No. I have not changed jobs or relocated. This has been discussed with BW and was deemed unnecessary. I will revisit this with her. OW was not a coworker.
f. Yes. I have avoided overnight separation except for one trip for me to visit my parents out of state and one trip for BW for work.
g. Yes. I have allowed technical accountability. I have provided her with all passwords to all accounts.
h. Yes. Affair has been exposed to family and friends.


I ordered the SAA book today. And Gloveoil, I will get to your questions as soon as I have a bit more time. Clearly I have work to do and will get on these NOs ASAP. Thanks.

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Thanks for answering, TU. I will address some of the biggest red flags:

Originally Posted by The_Unicorn
4. I have taken some extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation but not all of them, yet:
a. No. I have not blocked all potential means of contact. Phone and texting are blocked. Emails not changed. FB account still exists, though OW was �un-friended�. Phone number not changed. I have verbally promised to immediately tell BW if OW tries to contact me.

I would change any avenue of contact the OW knows about, phone #s, email accounts, Facebook accounts. Telling your wife when the OW contacts you misses the point entirely. If the OW can contact you at all, that is a huge issue because her contract will be a trigger. Telling your wife - if you do - will not mitigate that.

Facebook should be deleted entirely because it is still a way to contact the OW.

Quote
b. No. I have not fully accounted for my time, nor has BW.

While you should know what each other is doing at all times, I don't believe your wife has had an affair, has she? You HAVE, so it is imperative that you account for all your time while avoiding any overnights apart. I wouldn't be playing the quid quo pro game with her at this point in time. That will not help you one bit.

Glad to hear you have ordered SAA because you don't need His Needs, Her Needs at this point. You will greatly benefit from SAA.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thank you for providing answers to some of the questions asked but I still don't see an answer to these: If OW is not a co-worker how did you meet her? How close does OW live to you and is she married?

I am guessing she must be close in proximity since you seem to have avoided this. Please answer. Thanks.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by The_Unicorn
Thanks for the encouragement. It has definitely been an overwhelming response. It surely did not take me long to get myself into hot water! I am taking it all in, though. Thanks for the push. I am totally committed to doing this correctly and I�ve missed some things for sure. Here are my responses to the Ending the Affair checklist:

1. Yes. BW knows all details of A
2. No. I have not explicitly committed to never again see or talk to the OW to my BW. I have committed to this to her at least once in conversation, but I have not done this explicitly, especially by writing it down and reading it to her.
3. Yes. I wrote a letter (e-mail) ending the relationship and declaring NC and it was sent twice, once without BW approval at day 6 after D-day, and a final time with approval from BW five weeks later. That was our final contact.
4. I have taken some extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation but not all of them, yet:
a. No. I have not blocked all potential means of contact. Phone and texting are blocked. Emails not changed. FB account still exists, though OW was �un-friended�. Phone number not changed. I have verbally promised to immediately tell BW if OW tries to contact me.
b. No. I have not fully accounted for my time, nor has BW.
c. No. A full account of money spent has not been addressed.
d. No. We currently spend only limited leisure time together. I am very willing, spouse is unsure. I am currently following her lead. I am present as much as I can be.
e. No. I have not changed jobs or relocated. This has been discussed with BW and was deemed unnecessary. I will revisit this with her. OW was not a coworker.
f. Yes. I have avoided overnight separation except for one trip for me to visit my parents out of state and one trip for BW for work.
g. Yes. I have allowed technical accountability. I have provided her with all passwords to all accounts.
h. Yes. Affair has been exposed to family and friends.


I ordered the SAA book today. And Gloveoil, I will get to your questions as soon as I have a bit more time. Clearly I have work to do and will get on these NOs ASAP. Thanks.

Use the list, and the book, to make this true:

Quote
FWH all-in for recovery

One of the best things we do around here is let men who think they've done everything they can do, know that they haven't.

I'm glad they did it to me. laugh


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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And thank you for finding that post, BH and LTL smile


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by black_raven
Thank you for providing answers to some of the questions asked but I still don't see an answer to these: If OW is not a co-worker how did you meet her? How close does OW live to you and is she married?

I am guessing she must be close in proximity since you seem to have avoided this. Please answer. Thanks.

Sir, was your affair partner a co-worker?
Where did you meet her?
How close to you does she live/work?

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Originally Posted by black_raven
And thank you for finding that post, BH and LTL smile
You're welcome.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Unicorn,

Make some time to answer us, and we will help you walk through this process.

Many people have failed here because they continually claimed they did not have time.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by black_raven
And thank you for finding that post, BH and LTL smile

You're Welcome BR.

I saved that one a long ttme ago, even before I registered here.

LTL

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Black_raven, Jedi_Knight:
Thanks for keeping after me. To respond to your questions:

I have given full disclosure and answered all of BW's questions.

The OW was a friend of a friend. I met her at two night overnight birthday party for my direct friend's child. OW was not a co-worker. OW used to live about a mile away with her spouse. I do not know where she lives now. The OS informed us in our last contact in early July that they were divorcing. The A was exposed to her spouse at about day 5. He exposed it to several of our mutual friends. In addition, BW exposed A to her brother and two of her closest friends.

Melody:
I deleted my FB account today and deleted two of my four e-mail accounts. I will delete the other two by tomorrow (quite the tangled online web). I will change my phone number tomorrow. I want to speak to BW before I do this but she works late tonight. I understand how agreeing to disclose any future contact is still a trigger and not sufficient.

GloveOil:
For my extraordinary precautions, beyond the deletion of emails and FB, I am going down the checklist systematically and I will start accounting for my daily whereabouts tonight and each night prior to the following day by emailing my hourly schedule to BW. My BW is not yet on board with recovery and our counselor recommended I give her space (more about him soon), so UA is very spotty. I have been following her lead.

I am still trying to respect BWs wish to have time this weekend to see the MB site before I post our full details. I realize some of you feel this is a cop out, but for me, these are the cards I have been dealt (by my own selfish choices, I might add).
In the meantime, I will continue to provide details that pertain to me as I can.

Thanks to all for the valuable feedback. Please continue to ask me questions and let me know if I have missed any and I will respond.

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Also, I think at some point someone here told me to start listening to the radio show. I now have the App installed and have been listening daily.

And, SAA arrives tomorrow. I have not yet started reading His Needs, Her Needs. I will save it for later.
Thanks.

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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
That's fantastic that your BW is willing to check out the website. You both can also listen to MB radio and that is the absolutely best way to learn MB. If you listen to the "listen now" it replays the days show for 24 hours. The weekend replays the Friday's show.

Also, have you seen this?
What is Just Compensation?
Did you listen to the clips in the "What is Just Compensation?" thread?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Also, here are some more good clips. Beware of Bad Counselors


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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