Waywards like to try and pretend that the marriage never happened. A WW will tell the betrayed husband NOT to refer to them with loving terms or show them affection, because they've unilaterally decided the relationship is null and void. Not just in crisis, or even over, but null. Never happened. They never loved you, in their own mind. You were a mistake.

In their own mind, they believe this and they want the BH to agree so they can stay comfortably planted in the fog and not have to examine their own actions (which are shameful and guilt-inducing).

For me, this was very intimidating. I care about my wife's feelings very much and she was so emphatic about this that in my stunned state, I went along with it. She refused to undress around me, was uncomfortable if I told her I loved her, etc.

The feeling rejected or distant is how you feel if you go along with this framework the WW sets out. You may feel uncomfortable or fatalistic saying the kinds of things that are required for Plan A, because your wife has convinced you that you have no right or reason to love her since she's moved on forever.

BUT....this is nonsense and a form of gaslighting. She is still your wife, you've still spent X amount of years together, and she wouldn't have married you if she NEVER loved you.

She may have decided to ignore your history together, but she cannot change it. It persists. And what's more, when you can bring up a positive memory of you two together, it's like a trigger for her that makes her uncomfortable in her fantasy. She HAS to believe that you were a mistake and that her love for you was never as profound as the love that she felt for OM, or else there's no emotional justification for the great (and immoral) injury that she has dealt you.

So OWN that. Don't let her keep that from you. She can insist all day that "it's over" and that you're a minor footnote in her biography, but that is preposterous. She is conflicted herself and wants you to give up because it makes her decision easier to arrive at.

Call her love, call her your bride, call her the love of your life. Honey, sweetie, baby, etc I'd stay away from because they're intimate terms, but all of the old-fashioned stuff is what you need. The kind of terms you had in your discussions with her a few pages back were spot on.

The "way" to deal with this emotionally is tough. Every time WW shuts you down on something it's going to feel like a dagger. However, you are in a prime position to cause all sorts of havoc in the affair by refusing to behave in the way which the affair partners expect you to. They expect you to give up and move on, and persisting with spoiling your wife WILL cause them problems and make you increasingly attractive to your wife as their relationship stumbles.

Imagine being a boyfriend who's dating a very attractive woman with a long-term ex that she was extremely attached to and won't leave her alone. OM is like the boyfriend and you're like the ex in this scenario, and unlike this situation in real life, OM is not going to come run you off because he is a coward. Instead, he's going to get angry at your WW for having anything to do with you, and she's going to get angry with him for trying to control her.

So deal with the rejection by thinking of Plan A in strategic (rather than emotional) terms. Your wife is out of her mind right now so pay no attention to what she says other than to qualify which efforts of yours are or aren't effective, and take satisfaction in knowing you are almost certainly a thorn in OMs side because you won't roll over. Reciprocation/appreciation won't happen until OM is out of the picture, so free yourself of those expectations for the time being.

I understood that 100%. Thank you. I am reading this over and over again, and it is Plan A so well. I could cry reading it I understand it so well now. axslinger85 - I don't even know how to explain what you wrote is Just what I needed to hear.

However, I do still call her honey - I have for 12.5 years. I refuse to call her by her first name unless I begin Plan B.She calls the OM "My Love" and he calls her "Baby". I enjoy very much calling her my "Beautiful Wife". In fact almost nightly, I say "Goodnight, my beautiful wife".

Do you have any rebuttals to my continuing Honey?

If it makes the rest of what you're trying to do distasteful to her, then don't use it. You'll have to be the judge of that. If she really hates it she'll object immediately.

She has not objected to Honey in any way - except once in a text. and that was not immediately - and there was no reference when I said it today. (and no facial change that I could see either)

***EDIT***

This is an old thread written by a former wayward wife. It's in the stickies for betrayed spouses but the link didn't work so I searched and found it.

For all of us BHs on now, I'd highly recommend reading her thoughts. You'll certainly see the dots connect with your own situations.

LaLa does not seem to be on anymore. I do have a question that has been bugging me. I am pretty sure I know the answer, but for the sake of confirmation or clarity: How can one be sure that the 'relationship' my wife is in is an actual affair as opposed to a relationship for 'real'? I ONLY ask this because even tho we are legally married, the D was mentioned before she did anything physical with him at all (to the 98%ness of my knowledge).

I think my brain is answering this for me already. She admitted once that the emotions started connecting before the D, so since it started while we were together, it stands to reason this is an affair either way. Plus - I know she was not over me and did not deal with the emotions of our separation before becoming intimate with him.

I will say that my wife has said over half of what is on that list, and I don't believe any of it when I hear it. In fact it was just the other day she said OM had nothing to do with us not getting back together. Total horse poop.

In fact half the time we talk and she sees me for who I am today, who I am still becoming - I can almost hear 'Save Me' in her words. Oh if only I could.

Thanks Axe, I'll take a look at that thread tomorrow. I'll say some prayers tonight for all us BHs and our WWs and then try to get some sleep for work tomorrow.

I know this well. She says she has no connection, no love, even has hate for me right now.

I am sleepin in our room, in our marriage bed, and she in the ex-office-hopefully future office She'll knock on the door, I'll tell her it's not necessary. She says it's your room and bed. I say it's our room and our bed, you're just choosing not to stay in it. That and other things make it seem she does want to think of the marriage as null. She wants divorce, she doesn't feel any attachment to the house, that it's not hers. She's only there because she can't afford an apartment. She's overwhelmingly upset over exposure. No idea how wlong that will take to subside or heal.

I can definitely see the wisdom in not refusing to move out when she asked. She said to me, you didn't even ask any friend if you could stay with them, the night she told me not to come home. I had, more out of curiosity, and im sure I could have found a place to stay. I told her I did, there was no one who had a place, and that I wouldn't have accepted it anyway. This is our house until it isn't. Fortunately she is honest enough to not make up some trumped up RO to get me out, and refused to even lie to defend herself if I had called the cops for her hitting me and other things last Tuesday night.

Still living in the same house gives me hope and chances to make deposits. It's also tougher seeing her everyday and seeing someone else. Not my wife but the twisted fogged out WW. I miss my wife. Her smiles and laughter, her stories, her kisses, her touch. Patience is required, though, and when she comes back, they'll be all the sweeter.

I hear you pm18, I wish I had the luxury of being in the home right now. The patience is the worst pain ironically, and the best option.

My WW has also stated she doesn't want our home. And suggested I live there after she moves out. No way I'd want it without her, and I have said as much.

**EDIT**

In your case, the best thing you can do (and the most difficult for you to do) is to make sure she knows she can come back anytime she wants. Have you begged her for a chance to show her you can be the person she needs you to be? And are you willing to be the person she needs you to be? If so, do you know what she needs from you?

If she will talk to you, the best thing you can do is to find out what she wanted from you in the first place. Find out how this other guy is meeting her needs. After that, try to meet those needs for her. And don't give up! When you do something to meet her needs, let her know that you did it because you want to be the person she needs. Let her know that you want to change.

I wont lie. You're in a tough spot man. **EDIT** Try to be someone she wants to be around. Most of all, control your temper. Show her love instead of anger.

My wife is starting to wake up.

She called me this morning crying becauee our oldest did not want to wear the pants mommy wanted her to. She saw how I have handled the children, and wanted to know why at first she was so good with them and now she cannot control them.

I went to the house and we talked, I let her read some things about parents in the fog. She broke down. Then started talking to me about OM. And how she belives that he still loves his wife. She is prepping for no contact.

I am not counting ducks, but she is waking up. But I have a few requests:

1. I need help knowing how to assist her with no contact upon her request.

2. She asked "why now, why did I have to have sex with someone and do this for you to finally hear me after all these years?" I need help answering this question with more than I had an awakening.

3. How do I best handle her 'grieving' period, as far as time, space, and love?

Thank you. All of you.

Please remind me. Are you out of the house or still living together?

Have you read what Dr Harley says on withdrawal?

Have you read SAA?

**EDIT**

@goofedit Thank you. The good news is I am one step ahead of your post. I have found my flaws from my perspective and I am learning them slowly from hers. I have not yet directly asked her what needs he meets that I do not, but am working on that.

I have instilled nothing but love and devotion to reconciliation. As of today, I think my spot is a much less tough then yesterday. She sees me and our children see me for who I am today.

She has much to go through at this point, and my prev post is for me to handle that properly. Thank you for your advice.

I am not counting ducks, but she is waking up. But I have a few requests:

1. I need help knowing how to assist her with no contact upon her request.
-Buy the book "Surviving an affair" (edit, I see you already have it . It has a template of a letter to the other guy which says that your wife no longer wishes to see him/talk to him and asks him not to attempt to talk to her.

2. She asked "why now, why did I have to have sex with someone and do this for you to finally hear me after all these years?" I need help answering this question with more than I had an awakening.
-Now is the time for you to own this. Tell her that you were complacent in your marriage and that you missed a lot of her cues because of it. Make sure she knows that you NEVER want that to happen again and that you WANT to change to be the person meets her needs.

3. How do I best handle her 'grieving' period, as far as time, space, and love?
-First if there is stuff you want to know about the affair, write it down and save it for one conversation after which you try to never talk about it again. Remember, she didn't WANT to cheat on her husband per se. She fell into it and she regrets her decision to stray from her marriage. The more you talk about it, the worse she feels about herself. Try to spend your free time with her and make her feel loved. This is where you need to know her emotional needs, so you can meet them. You can read about these on the website Marriagebuilders.com. I recommend the book "hiss needs, her needs" as well.

Space...if she is willing to break contact with the other guy, that is huge. Ideally, you will get her to agree to establishing and maintaining exceptional precautions. If she won't that is a huge red flag that she wants to continue the affair. To get someone to agree to exceptional precautions, you need make sure she knows that taking these precautions helps you love her and makes you feel secure with her. She needs to know that it is NOT punishment, but a part of healing that you need. You don't really want to give her space though. You want to be involved in her life! Like you were dating her. Spend that kind of time and energy on her so that she knows home is a safe place. You are a safe person.

Have her write the NC Letter to OM.
How Affairs Should End


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

Thank you Goof, that was perfect. I will post more as updates progress.

You will also see in that article that I posted to you of "How Affairs Should end" that Dr. Harley recommends Anti-depressants. Will she see her doctor for some?

Can you plan a vacation away together? Just the two of you?

Please put Goof on ignore. He is mixing his programs and included weak betrayed husband terms and phrases within his advice that will harm you in the long run.

For example, a drug addict doesn't finally quit their drug because their spouse is a safe person and willing to NOT punish them. They quit because they hit rock bottom. Her "willingness" amounts to NOTHING. "Willingness" is bull puckey. The courage and the recovery are found in DOING "no contact".