EH I have been reading your thread closely because it seems we are going through a similar journey around the same times, my D day was essentially Christmas Eve.

I could have written this very same paragraph last week and actually did convey the same sentiments. The advice I got on here was to focus on scheduling UA time and making sure we get the recommended 15-20 hours a week. All I can say as we have increased the UA time and my paranoia and need to snoop has declined and I actually feel better about myself.

The times of happiness are important and the building blocks to a more intimate future, focus on creating the times of happiness and let them build on each other. When the affair was going on would she have recognized you are upset and give you a hug or kiss on check, I suspect not so that is a small victory for now. Remember this isn�t an instant fix you are in it for the long haul. So stay the course.

It�s harder to deal with no physical affection from her right now because you working hard and with hard work comes expectations and when they are not being met it hurts. But I bet if you look there are subtle signs of affection that you might not be picking up on because you are hoping for the big fix, baby steps my friend baby steps.

Others may disagree with me but I don�t think you should abandon all your hobbies completely, I think you still need to have some �me� time as part of working on yourself. The thing to do is to schedule them wisely. Are any of these hobbies things that might interest your wife and you could use participating in them together as recreational time?

This starts to sound like a demand and trust me I know the feelings all too well and have them myself at time but we can�t demand these things. You need to continue to create moments of happiness, have UA time and make it pleasant to be around you. Continue to stay strong and show her you are the best option. This is something that may take months or longer to happen. There is no quick and easy fix, all I can say is I stick with the hard work because I believe in the end the rebuilt marriage will be better than anything we ever had before that. So I hope you find a similar belief for yourself and stay the course.

You cared enough to fight for this marriage when you were not getting any affection and the affair was going on, don�t give up so easily because things are not turning around right away. Hang in there it�s been less than a month.

I know many on here recommend you consider antidepressants and you have indicated you are not interested. How do you feel about herbal solutions? If you re ok with that then read up on L-Tyrosine and see if that might help your moods.

He'll have plenty of time for hobbies after UA is being met and after they are each others recreational companion. Right now, additional hobbies could very likely serve to create a contrast effect -- he'll enjoy the hobbies more than his time with his wife.

Right now, he should be spending every moment he can finding ways to meet his wife's emotional needs (in ways he enjoys). "Me" time is not necessary for a healthy, fulfilling marriage.

If snooping is making you weary and paranoid then something is very, very wrong. Snooping reassured me and allowed me to STOP WORRYING. Nothing helped me RELAX more. Being able to see what he was doing every minute of every day was a blessing that helped me RELAX. So, if it is not having that effect, then something is very wrong and it means you can't see what she is doing when she is away from you. That must be changed.

You should have proof of what she does all day long. If her job provides her a secret curtain, then she should find a new job. OR you should be doing a better job of snooping.

Personal hobbies should come second to the marriage. If he has a hobby he enjoys MORE than his leisure time wth his wife, it should be abandoned for now because of the contrast effect. He is no longer a "me," but an "us." His time with his wife should be the most enjoyable time of his week.

We will show her how to FEEL affectionate towards you. If you will follow the policy of UA to the letter, she will fall in love with you in a matter of weeks.

Have you seen this? Listen to the clips in here.
The Critical Importance of Undivided Attention

BH, I will review those clips at my earliest convenience. I have been trying hard to spend as much time together as possible. We are easily spending 20-30 hours or more a week together. I am focusing on UA and communication as those were two things that were severely lacking in our relationship while the affair was going on.

As if she had actually read my post yesterday, we had a very productive conversation last night, the best we've had since I discovered the affair. What's more, it was initiated by her. I had no intention of discussing the affair and how we are progressing, but she really wanted to talk about it. Communication, especially covering an uncomfortable painful topic, are especially difficult for her, so I had no problem obliging. There was a lot discussed, and I won't bother with the details, but she said a lot to convince me that I had done enough to squash this affair and that she really does want to try and find love with me again. She still doesn't want me to expect miracles overnight. She admits that she is still struggling with the decisions she made, how they have destroyed everything we had been trying to build. She said she was punishing herself because she felt I hadn't really punished her, except for the exposure. She wants to start rebuilding trust on both sides, start our relationship over from the very beginning, and build back to the love we once had. I don't think there's a better way to approach this. We have both lost a lot of love for each other and ourselves during the last month, but I think I'm starting to see her at least want to try. That makes a world of difference to me.

I won't stop my snooping, but I saw and heard sincerity from her last night. Time will tell if it was an act, but coupled with the fact that I have seen other key changes in her mood, mannerisms, and habits over the last few weeks since exposure, I don't think it was.

EH

Yesterday I heard Dr. Harley recommend a vacation getaway if possible to really get a lot of UA time. He said Sue and John, the example couple from Surviving an Affair, took a cruise which really helped them.

Are you spending that 20-30 hours out on DATES meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment? Are you out ALONE on these dates? Or is this time you just happen to be in the house at the same time? Because unless it is the former, it will avail you NOTHING.

When we say UA time, we mean out on DATES. 4 - 4 hour dates out of the home. Most couples absolutely REFUSE to do this step [because their marriage is not a priority] and they NEVER fall in love again. This program will not work unless you do this step RIGHT. Pencil whipping and corner cutting will avail you nothing.


This is very promising. And if she is serious about restoring the love in your marriage, then the place to START is the UA time. Otherwise, it is a pipe dream that will never happen. You will end up with a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.


Trust, but verify, always. Snooping and transparency will restore your trust. "Sincerity," "remorse," etc, is worthless. What counts are ACTION steps towards recovery. All the "remorse" and crocodile tears in the world will NOT save a marriage. It is meaningless. Only actions count.

We are spending plenty of time together, but admittedly it's not all UA time out of the home. Quite frankly, she just doesn't want to spend UA time with me. She feels betrayed and controlled by the "demands" I've made to make her change her life. She says she understands why I had to make them, but it does not do anything to restore her love for me. She is not making much of an attempt to start conversation or suggest recreational activities for us to do, and there is even less of an attempt at emotional fullfillment or intimacy. I only see the latter two after she's had a few drinks, which isn't often, though it has increased in the last few weeks. I'm monitoring that closely, but it isn't a concern of mine currently.

She will either reluctantly oblige to UA time because she knows I want to do things with her, or just say she'd rather stay home. She'd much rather go out with me and some friends then just me. It's not UA time, but it makes her happy and she actually shows me more attention and affection when we are in a group setting, so I've been trying to work that in. I am trying to shoulder the load, but I need some buy in from her at some point. Also, her clear reluctance makes me not want to do anything with her either.

All that being said, I honestly feel the steps I've taken have ended the affair, and that it would still be ongoing had I not, so I regret nothing. I'm in a bad spot now, but it's still better than where I was two months ago.

I have started taking antidepressants, and they are helping to at least regulate my mood and permit me to focus. I was reluctant, but I'm glad I relented on that.

She says she wants to try to rebuild, but wants to do it right and rebuild from the ground up. When I ask her what that means, what her plan is, or who she wants us to see or talk to, she has no answer. She has no plan, and has clearly made no effort to research a plan. I believe that she just wants to somehow fall in love with me again over time. I don't see how that's possible when she doesn't want to do anything with me.

So, I'm in a holding pattern right now, until she trusts me again or until I relent on the limits I've put on where she is allowed to go and who she is allowed to see without me, which I cannot do. This is impossibly frustrating. She needs to trust me, when I'm the one who was betrayed. ridiculous.

So, I guess I have to wait and keep it up. At some point I'd like to have her read Surviving and Affair and review the marriage builders concepts, but I feel right now it'll be rejected outright or fall on deaf ears. I don't think she wants to be helped right now. But, how much longer do I wait?

EH

Why doesn't she like going out with you? Can you ask her what you could do to make yourself more pleasant to be around?

Do you have road rage? Are you unpleasant to be around? How enjoyable are you to be with?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4500_resource.html

Go and print up a bunch of these questionnaires and ask her if she will fill them out. Especially the "marital analysis" and the "love buster" Q.

I certainly don't feel that I'm unpleasant. I've never had a problem making or keeping friends. We went out all the time before the baby and her affair. I suggest places she would enjoy and try to focus the conversation on positive topics she is interested in. I think she's just struggling with depression and guilt from all that has happened. She doesn't trust that I'm being honest about not wanting to divorce her or somehow do more to "humiliate her" to our friends and family, though I've sworn I won't. She hates the feeling of being controlled, but that's her own fault. All in all, She just doesn't want to try to love me right now. The weather is cold and bleak here which doesn't help with options for UA out of the home, and she recently started working again which means more stress and less time with our 16 month old daughter. Also, My daughter's needs limit our out of the home UA opportunities. We do things together at home, but she often just isn't interested in doing anything, especially during the week.

Some days are worse than others. Some are pleasant, which gives me hope, but 4 dates outside the home is just not something she wants to commit to right now.

I just have to focus on the small victories and be patient that she will eventually come around and make more of an effort. There's really no other answer, is there?



I will do that. I don't expect much buy-in, but what can I lose at this point?

EH

Is it normal for WW to not want to show any physical affection to me at all 5 weeks after exposure? I had hoped by now that would change. She did the same thing during the affair. We did not have sex at all (over a year), though I did try. She almost never hugged me, kissed me on the lips, or told me she loved me unless I initiated it. and from a kissing perspective, I almost always got a turned cheek.

Now, 5 weeks after exposure, very little has changed from a physical perspective. We have been intimate once, but alcohol had much to do with that. The next day, back to zero affection. Still, that kept me in an incredible mood for days. I'm positively starving for physical contact of any kind from her. I live off it. I don't need regular sexual fulfillment right now, but I do need physical shows of affection from her very badly. Her consistent reasoning is that she doesn't want to lead me on, but how do you fix a broken relationship by continuing to treat your spouse the exact same way as you had before?

I have made many significant changes to my behavior and appearance to correct the problems that she indicated had led to the affair, which I have outlined in a previous post. She feels she has done enough for now just by leaving OM and not taking my 16 month old child away from me. She's actually eluded to that very fact in conversation.

Quite frankly, that isn't enough for me. I know everything I've been reading says I need to avoid making demands, avoid love busters, and keep conversation positive under all circumstances, but I'm kind of frustrated at the lack of effort from her. I can't do this alone. I love her. I really do love her, and I need her affection to return to a stable emotional state, but if she doesn't need or want the same from me, then what am I fighting for?

How do I say "you're not doing enough" without sounding controlling or as if I'm making demands?

EH

Yes.


There's no way to say that without being disrespectful.

Start by asking her what else you can do for her.

I've asked several times. When I ask what more I can do to specifically restore her love for me, she says "nothing".

In that case, you have to find out yourself through trial and error.

Are you scheduling 25-30 hours a week with her to give her your undivided attention and engage in conversation and recreational companionship with her?

She will not be motivated to meet your emotional needs until she is in love with you again, so you need to accomplish that as soon as possible.

I see that above you seemed to be ruling out the possibility of taking her out on dates. Don't expect her to ever feel good about being affectionate toward you if you aren't going to find a way to make that happen. Treat this as a problem that you HAVE to find a solution for, not as something that is just impossible and will have to be skipped.

I am trying hard to do that, but she is not always interested. We spend more than 25-30 hours a week together, but I wouldn't call it all UA time. I am suggesting activities inside and outside the home, and alone, with friends, with her family and together with our daughter, but she shoots much of the one-on-one outside the home stuff down. We are home together every week night and all weekend, so she's not getting UA from anyone else, but she is still reluctant. For now, I have been trying to at least show interest in the shows she wants to watch and in-home activities that we can both discuss and work on together (board games, redecorating, remodeling, etc.)

Triggers are a big hurdle for us right now. They are everywhere for me, and at times I have difficulty suppressing my response to them when I'm around her. I really do try, but she often notices, and she says my moodiness makes her think I despise her and makes her feel guilty. She feels she's broken me beyond repair. I've assured her that it will get easier for me as she replaces these images with new loving experiences. That was exactly the result when we were intimate last week. Nothing bothered me for four days. But one show of affection does not make up for a year of infidelity for which I have more intimate details than I should. Without more affection the images and pain returned.

So we are in a loop. My emotional struggles are contributing to her lack of affection, and vice versa.

Eddie,

What is often said on MB is that it will take a minimum of two years to recover sometimes longer, similar to getting over a death in the family.

God Bless
Gamma

Well, I'm not going two more years without physical affection. Not from someone who should be proving to me that she has remorse for detroying my life and family before it even had a chance to begin. Instead it's the other way around, and I have to cater to a selfish self-centered person who bailed on my family at the first sign of adversity and blames me for making recovery impossible every time I show a moment of weakness . I want to fix this, but I need her to realize that at least 50% of the problem is hers, not 10%, and give me some effort.