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I'm sorry guys - this is my busy day. I'll read everything more carefully and reply better later.
Quick answer is he beat me to it. My lawyer had everything prepared to take to the courthouse Monday but I checked my mail to find that he had already filed. I told my lawyer and she asked if I wanted her to call his lawyer and get the complaint so she could start working on our answer to it and I said yes. I didn't realize at the time that counts as my being served - she basically accepted it on my behalf.
I feel really dumb. He read the letter I sent over to give him a heads up knowing he had already filed and that I didn't know.
Me BW
Married 18 years before D-day
Kiddos - 15, 13, 6, 1
D-day - 10/14/14 Plan B - 11/30/14
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He beat her to it, I think.
Found this legal article which said that even in California, adultery has consequences.
"In a "no fault" state, marital infidelity is irrelevant to obtaining a divorce or to the division of property.
SO WHERE MIGHT "ADULTEROUS BEHAVIOR" COME INTO PLAY IN FAMILY LAW?
Misappropriation: During marriage each spouse is charged with the duty to manage marital assets (including income) in a way which hopefully benefits, and, at a minimum, does not harm, the family. If one spouse takes money away from the family for a purpose contrary to the family, that is called a misappropriation. Spending community money on a girlfriend or boyfriend, especially expensive gifts, paying for rent or mortgage, or vacations can be deemed a misappropriation for which the "injured" party is entitled to reimbursement for one half of the funds spent, possibly with interest, from the date of the misappropriation.
Interspousal tort. Under non-criminal law, an intentional, unlawful and harmful or offensive contact by one person with the person of another may be considered "battery", for which damages (money) may be assessed. Should an extramarital affair result in the offending party contracting, and giving to the "innocent" party a sexually transmitted disease, that may constitute civil "battery". Such an action might need to be prosecuted in a separate civil action apart from the divorce case, but the two cases can be consolidated upon appropriate motion to the court.
Supported Spouse. Where one spouse is paying spousal support to the other, if the supported spouse thereafter "cohabits" with a member of the opposite sex, there is a rebuttable presumption that the supported person has a decreased need for spousal support. The supported spouse then has the burden of proving continued need. This does NOT, however, affect child support. cohabitation has been defined in cases over the years as being something more than roommates, probably requiring romantic involvement, but not necessarily sexual relations. The income of the new boyfriend or girlfriend or even a new spouse of the payor is irrelevant"
Those are some nifty rules I wouldn't mind having here. The UK is fault, but you can't get anything done about it.
Florida uses it to divide property too. You do realize she does not live in California and that she has already decided to file on grounds of adultery and abandonment?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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She already made the decision to file on grounds of adultery and abandonment so would countersue those grounds. Correct or just include it in her Response. Don't understand what all this discussion is about when it has been decided. Was just answering questions asked by others...maybe should have put in another thread. I still don't know if the ceritified mail mailing is all that is needed for service or if a signature is required to be considered served. If the latter then she hasn't even been properly served. Round and around...
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I'm sorry guys - this is my busy day. I'll read everything more carefully and reply better later.
Quick answer is he beat me to it. My lawyer had everything prepared to take to the courthouse Monday but I checked my mail to find that he had already filed. I told my lawyer and she asked if I wanted her to call his lawyer and get the complaint so she could start working on our answer to it and I said yes. I didn't realize at the time that counts as my being served - she basically accepted it on my behalf.
I feel really dumb. He read the letter I sent over to give him a heads up knowing he had already filed and that I didn't know. Jw, ask her to counter on grounds of adultery and abandonment.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Whether you countersue or respond you now have time to address anything you may have missed or want to shore up. Did he file with any detail or was it very generic?
Fault can still be cited in a Response. Did he file in the same court that you would have?
Last edited by black_raven; 03/17/15 03:01 PM.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I'm sorry guys - this is my busy day. I'll read everything more carefully and reply better later.
Quick answer is he beat me to it. My lawyer had everything prepared to take to the courthouse Monday but I checked my mail to find that he had already filed. I told my lawyer and she asked if I wanted her to call his lawyer and get the complaint so she could start working on our answer to it and I said yes. I didn't realize at the time that counts as my being served - she basically accepted it on my behalf. But your lawyer will have known that. She will still be able to put your plan into effect in your response, I'm sure. There's nothing to feel dumb about - you we're following your plan and still are. You do realize she does not live in California and that she has already decided to file on grounds of adultery and abandonment? I couldn't see where she lived - just responding to the point that adultery doesn't matter in no fault states. She should stick to the plan she devised with her lawyer.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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[
I couldn't see where she lived - just responding to the point that adultery doesn't matter in no fault states. She should stick to the plan she devised with her lawyer. Right. Even in no fault states, adultery does matter in some aspects of the case, if not on the grounds. But she had already discussed this with her lawyer and decided to file on those grounds.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks so much, everyone. I talked with my lawyer yesterday. His filing was a completely generic irreconcilable differences, filed in the same court I would have filed in anyway. My lawyer spoke to his and got the impression that he had not informed his lawyer of everything that has gone on, and our countersuit will be a surprise. My lawyer didn't change anything on my complaint, and filed it yesterday.
My feeling dumb was just because I sent him that loving letter forewarning him that I was filing, and he read it knowing that he had already filed. And he didn't tell me. And he didn't respond to the letter. Just had a good laugh at my naivete I guess. I feel a little better about it now. I did what was right and kind - nothing dumb about that. I can't control how he acts or reacts.
Me BW
Married 18 years before D-day
Kiddos - 15, 13, 6, 1
D-day - 10/14/14 Plan B - 11/30/14
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I did what was right and kind - nothing dumb about that. I can't control how he acts or reacts. Exactly.
Remarried 7/16
Thanks MB!
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well, ugh. I just sort of snapped at my daughter. she is refusing to help with the dishes and she told me I had "signed up for this" and she hadn't, and I told her that I absolutely had not signed up for single parenting 4 kids including a preschooler and a baby.
I am trying so hard to not be negative about her dad, but that is the truth. And she knows it, but she's only 11. Sigh.
I don't guess I have a question, just needed to vent a little to people who get it.
Me BW
Married 18 years before D-day
Kiddos - 15, 13, 6, 1
D-day - 10/14/14 Plan B - 11/30/14
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well, ugh. I just sort of snapped at my daughter. she is refusing to help with the dishes and she told me I had "signed up for this" and she hadn't, and I told her that I absolutely had not signed up for single parenting 4 kids including a preschooler and a baby. She doesn't need to "sign up!" She is your child and you signed her up!  That means she better get her butt to work. Seriously, an 11 yr old thinks she doesn't have to do dishes? With all those kids, you should never have to do the dishes.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I am trying so hard to not be negative about her dad. Why? The best thing to do is be totally honest about his irresponsiblity. Most posters are advised not to pull any punches with their kids and tell them just how wrong it is, how destructive it is. Seen so many posters have so much success in telling their kids it's not the right thing to do. From what I've seen there are some ground rules between honesty and trashing the wayward: I.e. don't use insulting name calling words and don't speak of them like an eternally hopeless case I.e. 'once a cheater always a cheater' etc. But it's totally right on to express negativity about the results of his behaviour right now. About the mess adultery leaves. Nothing wrong in what you said. At all.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Yes, ML that was a hormonally fueled mouth-off. She's doing the dishes as I type now. She stomped upstairs and came back 30 seconds later lol.
Indie, you're right, I don't need to cover for him. There's such a fine line between honesty and lashing out. I crossed the line a little today (more in my tone than my words). I apologized to her for snapping at her, but I didn't apologize for what I said. She would think less of me if I did - she's a smart kid. She knows it was true.
Me BW
Married 18 years before D-day
Kiddos - 15, 13, 6, 1
D-day - 10/14/14 Plan B - 11/30/14
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Yes, ML that was a hormonally fueled mouth-off. She's doing the dishes as I type now. She stomped upstairs and came back 30 seconds later lol.  And I don't want you to feel silly about giving him that heads up about the divorce. You still were able to convey the main point, which is that you would be willing to consider reconciliation under certain conditions.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And I am glad you said that, Indie, because it got me thinking. One of the things that really bothers me about all of this is the example WH is setting for our children at this impressionable age. I think if I were to gloss over what he's doing and how hurtful it is and how he is shirking responsibility, that would not help my kids grow into the responsible, honest adults I want them to be. The only way to break this cycle is to let them see how devastating it is.
Me BW
Married 18 years before D-day
Kiddos - 15, 13, 6, 1
D-day - 10/14/14 Plan B - 11/30/14
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And I don't want you to feel silly about giving him that heads up about the divorce. You still were able to convey the main point, which is that you would be willing to consider reconciliation under certain conditions. Yes, exactly. And I don't know that he read it and laughed, or cared or didn't care or what. All I know is that I did the right thing and I have to quit thinking about it.
Me BW
Married 18 years before D-day
Kiddos - 15, 13, 6, 1
D-day - 10/14/14 Plan B - 11/30/14
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And I am glad you said that, Indie, because it got me thinking. One of the things that really bothers me about all of this is the example WH is setting for our children at this impressionable age. I think if I were to gloss over what he's doing and how hurtful it is and how he is shirking responsibility, that would not help my kids grow into the responsible, honest adults I want them to be. The only way to break this cycle is to let them see how devastating it is. You are exactly correct. My father was a serial cheater and my mother remained silent. My father sure was not silent and it kept me perpetually confused as a child. I believe it is a PARENTS responsibility to give their children moral guidance, not to just leave it to chance.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I'm ok. Not much happening. WH has been giving me money, I have no idea how he's coming up with the amounts he's giving me, but I'm not asking him. (The first few times I did.)
I asked my mom to come to the soccer games, because my sister said she wasn't sure she could be nice in person. My mom can completely ignore a person like nobody else. But he hasn't shown up to a game so far. Mom can't come tomorrow, but I doubt he will show and if he does, my kids are old enough that I can go to my car and let them come to me when the game ends. The parking lot is far enough and their bigger fields are in the back, so I can get where I can't see even see them if I am intentional about where I park. Definitely won't be able to hear him.
My lawyer filed a petition Wednesday for support with a court date for next Friday, hoping that he'll just go ahead and settle before then.
My sister gets married next weekend. I am having a hard time. I am so, so happy for her, and I think the man she's marrying is a fantastic match for her, but it's really hard. I feel cynical and depressed. I haven't been taking very good care of myself. So I joined a weight loss challenge with some friends as a way of providing some outside accountability to make me stop eating pie for breakfast and lunch. I don't care about losing weight, but I know I will feel better if I treat myself better, I've just been wallowing and not doing it.
Thank you for checking on me.
Me BW
Married 18 years before D-day
Kiddos - 15, 13, 6, 1
D-day - 10/14/14 Plan B - 11/30/14
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Are you getting any exercise? Walks or bike rides or a workout video at home?
I can't tell you how much better I felt when I threw myself into exercising when I was going through my H's affair.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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