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I sent the actual evidence to my family.. they would not have belived it otherwise. before I completely go full exposure..let me check the records and report back what the actual contact has been over the last two months.

Also...Here is what my gut really is telling me and I�d be happy to be convinced that I am wrong. My wife went to her HS reunion where she reconnected with other unmarried, opposite sex friends. She spent a week with people from the past, excitement, no responsibilities� meeting up at the bar for drinks etc.. when she came home, she became depressed . All the reality came back, getting older (almost 40), not having more children, and not being happy with her life and this is all my fault. She wants to go move back to where she grew up, she wants to drink more, and be with her old friends more. If I expose this one guy� all the rest of that fantasy world is still going to be there and she can just pick another opposite sex friend to talk to. I really think the problem is systemic to her and not just this one individual� does anyone else see that? I think that if she would focus on having an amazing marriage and an integrated life .. she could be happy; but she is afraid of that because it means going forward in life, growing up, and putting away the things of the past.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
I sent the actual evidence to my family.. they would not have belived it otherwise. before I completely go full exposure..let me check the records and report back what the actual contact has been over the last two months.

Also...Here is what my gut really is telling me and I�d be happy to be convinced that I am wrong. My wife went to her HS reunion where she reconnected with other unmarried, opposite sex friends. She spent a week with people from the past, excitement, no responsibilities� meeting up at the bar for drinks etc.. when she came home, she became depressed . All the reality came back, getting older (almost 40), not having more children, and not being happy with her life and this is all my fault. She wants to go move back to where she grew up, she wants to drink more, and be with her old friends more. If I expose this one guy� all the rest of that fantasy world is still going to be there and she can just pick another opposite sex friend to talk to. I really think the problem is systemic to her and not just this one individual� does anyone else see that? I think that if she would focus on having an amazing marriage and an integrated life .. she could be happy; but she is afraid of that because it means going forward in life, growing up, and putting away the things of the past.

That is great. So since the OM is "not the real problem," she shouldn't mind dumping him if you go ask her right now. Please go ask her right now to agree to never communicate with the OM again. Come back and tell us her response.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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"affair. I sought out counseling and engaged in as much snooping as possible for me to confront her with it. She was horribly upset and offended by the snooping and the councilor advised to stop doing it. Although she denied everything.. �this was just a friend� , the emotional affair through text messages and frequent phone calls seemed to stop. "

Her reaction to your snooping is proof positive the affair is in full swing. That is the reaction of a spouse who has something to hide, since full transparency would EXONERATE HER. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide.

And you can thank the counselor for helping her hide her affair. Did you actually pay this person for this marriage wrecking advice?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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"I sent the actual evidence to my family.. they would not have belived it otherwise. before I completely go full exposure..let me check the records and report back what the actual contact has been over the last two months. "

Have you resumed your snooping?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I exposed the affiar to my family but she has not been confronted. A confrentation would be devistating to her. I struggle because with such limited contact, I cannot be 100% sure or even 50% sure she is addicted to this. How can a drug addict be addicted if they only get a very small dose and it's once or twice a month? I'm not saying that this shouldn't end completely, it should.. but how do I unleash the bomb if I'm not 100% sure? How do I know this is not a mid-life crisis? A transference of anger from her childhood onto me? or anything else? How can I find out for sure if this is really the problem?
She will be addicted to OM for the rest of her life. The slightest contact with him will set her back to square one. It is vital for drug addicts to never touch their drug again. It is vital for alcoholics to never take another sip. It is vital for a wayward to have absolutely no contact with their affair partner ever again.

There have been marriages that were well on their way to recovery, only to be devastated when no contact was broken just once. It sets the couple back to square one.

You will make no progress as long as she remains in contact.



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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
A
Originally Posted by typicalman
I sent the actual evidence to my family.. they would not have belived it otherwise. before I completely go full exposure..let me check the records and report back what the actual contact has been over the last two months.

Also...Here is what my gut really is telling me and I�d be happy to be convinced that I am wrong. My wife went to her HS reunion where she reconnected with other unmarried, opposite sex friends. She spent a week with people from the past, excitement, no responsibilities� meeting up at the bar for drinks etc.. when she came home, she became depressed . All the reality came back, getting older (almost 40), not having more children, and not being happy with her life and this is all my fault. She wants to go move back to where she grew up, she wants to drink more, and be with her old friends more. If I expose this one guy� all the rest of that fantasy world is still going to be there and she can just pick another opposite sex friend to talk to. I really think the problem is systemic to her and not just this one individual� does anyone else see that? I think that if she would focus on having an amazing marriage and an integrated life .. she could be happy; but she is afraid of that because it means going forward in life, growing up, and putting away the things of the past.

That is great. So since the OM is "not the real problem," she shouldn't mind dumping him if you go ask her right now. Please go ask her right now to agree to never communicate with the OM again. Come back and tell us her response.
I can tell you exactly the response.. it was " you can tell me I can't have friends ?" - Anger, walk away, not talk to me, months of abuse.

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Her reaction to your snooping is proof positive the affair is in full swing.
YES! People who have nothing to hide don't hide anything!


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It doesn't surprise me in the least bit that she would accuse you of having an affair. Waywards not only throw up smoke screens, but they need a way to justify what they are doing.


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Originally Posted by typicalman
I exposed the affiar to my family but she has not been confronted. A confrentation would be devistating to her. I struggle because with such limited contact, I cannot be 100% sure or even 50% sure she is addicted to this. How can a drug addict be addicted if they only get a very small dose and it's once or twice a month? I'm not saying that this shouldn't end completely, it should.. but how do I unleash the bomb if I'm not 100% sure? How do I know this is not a mid-life crisis? A transference of anger from her childhood onto me? or anything else? How can I find out for sure if this is really the problem?


Mid life crisis is pop psychology. You are trying to find logical reasons for an illogical addiction. You think (logically) that he can't meet her ENs - but it's not about having a logical and fulfilling relationship. It's about how she is allowed to fall off the wagon periodically.

People of all ages exhibit the behaviours your wife is showing. It's not a midlife crisis and has nothing to do with you.

The addiction is never broken without confrontation by exposure. Why on earth is everyone tiptoing around her? She needs that reality check of what continued contact will cost her.

You can't educate her out of this. You need to let the consequences fall freely. She knew her affair would disappoint people when she chose it.

Educating her and counselling her is not only ineffective, it's disrespectful and annoying. Instead of telling her what she should be focused on, allow her the full results of her choices and then she can decide for herself.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
"I sent the actual evidence to my family.. they would not have belived it otherwise. before I completely go full exposure..let me check the records and report back what the actual contact has been over the last two months. "

Have you resumed your snooping?

I don't really need to "snoop" much.. it's long distance, so I only need to check the phone record to see how often there is contract and for how long. I can say right now that over the last month, there have been only a couple txt messages and maybe 1 attempt at a phone call (not answered)..
whereas.. there are many hours of calls with the girlfrind that suggested that I be accused of an affair.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
A
Originally Posted by typicalman
I sent the actual evidence to my family.. they would not have belived it otherwise. before I completely go full exposure..let me check the records and report back what the actual contact has been over the last two months.

Also...Here is what my gut really is telling me and I�d be happy to be convinced that I am wrong. My wife went to her HS reunion where she reconnected with other unmarried, opposite sex friends. She spent a week with people from the past, excitement, no responsibilities� meeting up at the bar for drinks etc.. when she came home, she became depressed . All the reality came back, getting older (almost 40), not having more children, and not being happy with her life and this is all my fault. She wants to go move back to where she grew up, she wants to drink more, and be with her old friends more. If I expose this one guy� all the rest of that fantasy world is still going to be there and she can just pick another opposite sex friend to talk to. I really think the problem is systemic to her and not just this one individual� does anyone else see that? I think that if she would focus on having an amazing marriage and an integrated life .. she could be happy; but she is afraid of that because it means going forward in life, growing up, and putting away the things of the past.

That is great. So since the OM is "not the real problem," she shouldn't mind dumping him if you go ask her right now. Please go ask her right now to agree to never communicate with the OM again. Come back and tell us her response.
I can tell you exactly the response.. it was " you can tell me I can't have friends ?" - Anger, walk away, not talk to me, months of abuse.


You're using a pea shooter in a gun fight. Exposure is supposed to make her furious. Completely incandescent. However she can't keep it up because it causes trouble in the A and she can't be mad at everyone while holding the A together. She should also see that you totally don't care about her tantrums and they aren't keeping you in line.

Instead you've not interfered with her affair and are rewarding the tantrums by walking on egg shells. You're also the only person giving her flak making you a nice, easy, solo target. So obviously, she's going to keep having them. At you.
.

Last edited by indiegirl; 04/20/15 03:48 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
"I sent the actual evidence to my family.. they would not have belived it otherwise. before I completely go full exposure..let me check the records and report back what the actual contact has been over the last two months. "

Have you resumed your snooping?

I don't really need to "snoop" much.. it's long distance, so I only need to check the phone record to see how often there is contract and for how long. I can say right now that over the last month, there have been only a couple txt messages and maybe 1 attempt at a phone call (not answered)..
whereas.. there are many hours of calls with the girlfrind that suggested that I be accused of an affair.


Have you checked for a burner phones and apps?



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Why on earth are you blaming her childhood? It is totally natural to fall victim to affairs. Anyone can fall victim to an affair, particularly if there's a pre-existing love bank. Dr H says married people should never attend reunions alone because that can happen to anyone.


Last edited by indiegirl; 04/20/15 03:53 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
I think that one thing I can do is to talk to the OM and ask him to stay away. He has never been married and doesn't understand what marriage is all about. He is a lifelong friend and I don't see why he would want to ruin her life.
Either the friendship is over or the marriage is over. It is impossible to have both.


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Originally Posted by Dr Harley
most affairs meet only some emotional needs not met in marriage, leaving others that are being met by a spouse. That fact usually rules out the possibility of divorce, at least for the spouse having the affair. The wayward spouse knows that the lover, for some reason, is not able to meet some of the needs met by his or her spouse. So most affairs are never intended to lead to divorce and remarriage, but are "safety-valve" relationships that satisfy a need not met in marriage.

Having drawn the above conclusion about the nature of affairs, it should be obvious why most wayward spouses would like their affairs to go undetected. Not only do they want to avoid all the unhappiness that goes with discovery, but they also want to continue the affair as long as it meets needs not met in marriage. In most cases, a lover only meets one or two emotional needs, while the spouse meets others. ..




What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by Dr Harley
We are all wired to have an affair. We can all fall in love with someone of the opposite sex if that person meets one of our emotional needs. If you don't think it can happen to you because of your conviction or will-power, you are particularly vulnerable to an affair. And if you think your spouse would never have an affair, you are also vulnerable. ..



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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I checked the last months worth of records. There has been no contact except for 1 call attempt that didn't actually go through (or it last less than 2 min). I completely agree that the relationship needed to be ended (mostly out of respect for marriage).. but it really appears to me that it run its course or there was never really much there. I now know that I should never let her have traveled alone and I never will again. On the last trip a couple months ago, I went with her. I stood by her side the entire time even though she ignorned me while I was there (quite embarassing)... but he was there and nothing happened. She was just angry with me for "running off her friend".

Even if I run him off for real.. which I can do. I am battling some kind of fantasy world in her head where I am the source of all that is bad and hanging out at a bar with high school losers is all that is good. How can I fight this nonesense? Will she ever stop being so angry and have a moment of clairity?

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Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

Look at M.S.'s husband. Here he is, thousands of miles from his lover, and yet he still feels compelled to call her. Can you imagine the trouble M.S. would have had separating them if they had not moved? Their move was the best thing that could have happened to their marriage because it not only revealed the affair, but it also set up the conditions that would make ending it possible -- total separation.

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

. In the case of M.S.'s husband, he is suffering so much that he can no longer make love to his wife, something that had always come very easily to him in the past. What is happening to these men?

They are experiencing symptoms of withdrawal from the addiction they have to their lovers.

As soon as a victimized spouse decides to stay married and struggle through reconciliation, he or she usually sets out to meet whatever needs the lover had been meeting. If it was sex, the spouse offers more and better sex. If it was affection, it's more affection. Both M.S. and R.J.'s wife were willing to do whatever it took to regain their wayward spouses' love.

But it didn't work for either of them. That's because both of their husbands were in withdrawal. They were both addicted to their lovers and separation from them caused them to suffer from depression. That, in turn, made it almost impossible for their spouses to meet their emotional needs. So all of that love and care that was being extended to them was being wasted. Until they would recover from withdrawal, the efforts of their wives to please them will be very disappointing.

Withdrawal is the emotional reaction to the loss of something that gives great pleasure. It's similar to the feelings an alcoholic has when he makes a commitment never to drink again. It's also similar to the grief that comes from the loss of a loved one. A lover is like alcohol and like a loved one. Not only do unfaithful spouses miss what it was their lovers did, meeting important emotional needs, but they also miss the person they had come to love.

Our most common emotions are anger, anxiety and depression. Symptoms of withdrawal usually include all of these in a very intense form. I usually suggest that anti-depressant medication be used to help alleviate these symptoms. While the most intense symptoms of withdrawal usually last only about three weeks, in some cases they can linger for six months or longer before they start to fade.

It is extremely likely that a commitment to remain separated from a lover will be broken unless extreme measures are taken to avoid it. That's because the emotional reaction of withdrawal is so painful.

There's a sense in which M.S.'s husband was in withdrawal even before M.S. discovered the affair. As soon as the move was made, he became depressed, and what M.S. noticed the most was his lack of interest in sex. Depression will do that to you (and so will anti-depressant medication -- one of it's only side effects is a loss of sex drive).
If M.S.'s husband were to avoid talking to his lover for three weeks, it's likely that his sex drive would start to return, since the worst symptoms of withdrawal would probably have ended. He has a long history of sexual interest in his wife, and I guarantee that he will eventually do just fine in bed.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
I checked the last months worth of records. There has been no contact except for 1 call attempt that didn't actually go through (or it last less than 2 min). I completely agree that the relationship needed to be ended (mostly out of respect for marriage).. but it really appears to me that it run its course or there was never really much there.


That is true of ALL affairs. If there was 'much there' it wouldn't be an affair. This is like saying there's not much nutrition in crack cocaine or booze.

Besides which you aren't snooping. They could have dozens of methods of communication you don't know about

What's certain is that her behaviour is that of someone triggered by the A. Since she objects to snooping and he is too important to cut loose it's clear she is still addicted to contact with him.

You could try to talk the drunk sober or you could cut off the booze.

Of course she's angry. Textbook.


Run him off!


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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