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All,
Great support forum. Glad I found this place today, but like any knuckle-headed guy, I wished I had done something sooner and knew all the great advice and articles on this website.
Anyhow, wife of 3 years just picked up and left 2 weeks ago. We've had our conflicts, and while she has issues to work out, I've done my apologies and is seeking help to better myself. Getting therapy for my issues, and luckily my therapist is confident they can be overcomed. She said she's seen worse, and I am an eager student.
That said, I am working on myself through therapy, but I really like this "Love Bank" metaphor. It makes total sense to me, especially with all the love busters and making deposits. Sad to say, my years of neglect and all the LBs have brought us where we are now. She's checked out and has moved out with our 2-year old son. I've done all the bare necessities, transferring enough money into her account so she has enough to live for a whole year, making sure the place she found is safe, and to let her know I'm here if she ever needs anything.
I'm seeking advice and support because I intend to fight for our family and do what it takes to make myself attractive to her again, and find ways to make deposits into her Love Bank from afar.
Luckily I've made some "deposits" in the past 2 weeks, so we are still in communication. However, she still mentions divorce from time to time, and anytime she does, it absolutely demoralizes me. If this makes sense, when I met her emotional needs from afar, she sometimes actually responds with nothing or is almost angry. Is it possible my efforts is making her upset because I'm all of a sudden someone that's not what she'd envisioned a few months ago? I think she expected me to be my AO self when she tried to secretly move out (something she was planning for months). Instead, I helped her move, talked to her, cried with her, revealed my fears with her, sympathized with her, and supported her decision for space.
How do I know my LBs are working? I like this metaphor that was also on this site, along the lines of: your efforts are like throwing little pebbles into the pond; you'll only see the ripples at first, but slowly they add up and make an island. Love it.
She's moved no more than a mile away, and we see each other when we switch off with the child. She'll invite me to parent events at our son's preschool, but she is clear she doesn't want time alone with me. We still have keys to each other's cars, so I'd leave little notes and flowers from our garden in her car at work, or her favorite snacks in the trunk. I do little things, just to make sure I'm not coming on too strong. Some times she'll thank me for these little things, so that gives me hope.
I know it takes time, but any advice/suggestions to send LBs from afar is appreciated.
Thank You!
Last edited by penumbra; 05/22/15 11:18 PM.
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Are either of you having an affair?
Have there ever been police complaints or charges for domestic violence?
How would you describe your angry outbursts?
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Are either of you having an affair?
Have there ever been police complaints or charges for domestic violence?
How would you describe your angry outbursts? no, we are not having an affair, or had one to my knowledge. no on police complaints or charges for domestic violence. I've never hit her, or threaten to hit her, but I do throw things when I'm really upset pillows, boxes, and one time a mouse. my AOs got pretty bad the last 6 months, where I can recall maybe 4 times where I called her names at the top of my lungs. I can be really loud if I wanted. that probably scared her. I think my LBs are there, but I believe the primary cause of the separation was due to severe neglect and not meeting her emotional needs.
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Getting therapy for my issues, and luckily my therapist is confident they can be overcomed. She said she's seen worse, and I am an eager student. What issues is your therapy addressing? How is it doing so? What does the therapy consist of? How is your therapist measuring your progress?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Ok. I read your post twice and still have no earthly idea what the problem is. Why did she leave? What happened?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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nyhow, wife of 3 years just picked up and left 2 weeks ago. We've had our conflicts, and while she has issues to work out, I've done my apologies and is seeking help to better myself. Getting therapy for my issues, and luckily my therapist is confident they can be overcomed. She said she's seen worse, and I am an eager student. You have "issues?" What is the issue?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[ I've never hit her, or threaten to hit her, but I do throw things when I'm really upset pillows, boxes, and one time a mouse.
my AOs got pretty bad the last 6 months, where I can recall maybe 4 times where I called her names at the top of my lungs. I can be really loud if I wanted. that probably scared her.
I think my LBs are there, but I believe the primary cause of the separation was due to severe neglect and not meeting her emotional needs. I don't claim to know why she separated, but she should have separated for the abusive behavior described in the first 2 paragraphs. You have described yourself as an unsafe person so I agree it was a good idea for her to leave. Are you attending anger management courses? What does your "therapy" entail?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Getting therapy for my issues, and luckily my therapist is confident they can be overcomed. She said she's seen worse, and I am an eager student. What issues is your therapy addressing? How is it doing so? What does the therapy consist of? How is your therapist measuring your progress? Here are the issues: 1. intimacy issues: our marriage is sexless, and I don't initiate 2. pornography: I told my therapist I might be an addict, so she'll evaluate me for it. That might explain why our marriage is sexless 3. anger issues: this has gotten worse the past 6 months, I think it's work related as well 4. many limiting beliefs about myself. although I'm fairly successful in my life, i have mental blocks that prevents me from reaching my full potential as a husband and a professional. 5. maybe mommy issues 6. abandonment issues (dad was absent in my life)
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[ I've never hit her, or threaten to hit her, but I do throw things when I'm really upset pillows, boxes, and one time a mouse.
my AOs got pretty bad the last 6 months, where I can recall maybe 4 times where I called her names at the top of my lungs. I can be really loud if I wanted. that probably scared her.
I think my LBs are there, but I believe the primary cause of the separation was due to severe neglect and not meeting her emotional needs. I don't claim to know why she separated, but she should have separated for the abusive behavior described in the first 2 paragraphs. You have described yourself as an unsafe person so I agree it was a good idea for her to leave. Are you attending anger management courses? What does your "therapy" entail? yes I believe it's a combination of severe neglect (due in part to the issues I'm working out with my therapist), and my AO behaviors that I've developed in the past 6 months. The interesting thing is, I put my job on hold for a month because of my marriage, and while I still feel stressed about the separation, I actually feel much more optimistic and calm. I think my job is taking too much of my life and blinded me to what is really important... I probably was taking my work stress home and unleashing it on my family. The past year has been difficult at work because of my recent promotion and additional responsibilities, which I had a hard time handling.
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[
Here are the issues:
1. intimacy issues: our marriage is sexless, and I don't initiate
2. pornography: I told my therapist I might be an addict, so she'll evaluate me for it. That might explain why our marriage is sexless That does explain why your marriage is sexless. You don't need an evaluation, you need to knock it off and remove all access to porn. 3. anger issues: this has gotten worse the past 6 months, I think it's work related as well The solution to this is to stop getting angry. That is addressed in the first 5 chapters of the book Lovebusters. There is a chapter devoted angry outbursts. 4. many limiting beliefs about myself. although I'm fairly successful in my life, i have mental blocks that prevents me from reaching my full potential as a husband and a professional.
5. maybe mommy issues
6. abandonment issues (dad was absent in my life) All of this is a distraction from your current problems. That is cute and winsome that you are going to counseling to talk about your mommy "issues" but it is a distraction at a critical time in your marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[The interesting thing is, I put my job on hold for a month because of my marriage, and while I still feel stressed about the separation, I actually feel much more optimistic and calm. I think my job is taking too much of my life and blinded me to what is really important... I probably was taking my work stress home and unleashing it on my family. The past year has been difficult at work because of my recent promotion and additional responsibilities, which I had a hard time handling. Instead of wasting valuable time in therapy, I would go to your wife with a plan: 1. stop all angry outbursts and any other love busters using the Marriage Builders program 2. eliminate all pornography 3. create romantic love in your marriage by meeting each others emotional needs and by scheduling 20+ hours per week of undivided attention. This means you commit to 4 4 hour dates per week, meeting the intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. THIS plan will save your marriage. Sitting in counseling taking about your mommy and "abandonment" issues will not save your marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Here is a thread with radio clips, etc on how to eliminate angry outbursts: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=165999&Number=2603602#Post2603602The books you need to turn this around are: Lovebusters, His Needs, Her Needs and the workbook, Five Steps to Romantic Love. I would start with Lovebusters and follow the lessons at the end of each chapter.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What issues is your therapy addressing? How is it doing so? What does the therapy consist of? How is your therapist measuring your progress? Here are the issues: 1. intimacy issues: our marriage is sexless, and I don't initiate 2. pornography: I told my therapist I might be an addict, so she'll evaluate me for it. That might explain why our marriage is sexless 3. anger issues: this has gotten worse the past 6 months, I think it's work related as well 4. many limiting beliefs about myself. although I'm fairly successful in my life, i have mental blocks that prevents me from reaching my full potential as a husband and a professional. 5. maybe mommy issues 6. abandonment issues (dad was absent in my life) Hmmm. Six answers to one question, and no answers to the other four questions.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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What issues is your therapy addressing? How is it doing so? What does the therapy consist of? How is your therapist measuring your progress? Here are the issues: 1. intimacy issues: our marriage is sexless, and I don't initiate 2. pornography: I told my therapist I might be an addict, so she'll evaluate me for it. That might explain why our marriage is sexless 3. anger issues: this has gotten worse the past 6 months, I think it's work related as well 4. many limiting beliefs about myself. although I'm fairly successful in my life, i have mental blocks that prevents me from reaching my full potential as a husband and a professional. 5. maybe mommy issues 6. abandonment issues (dad was absent in my life) Hmmm. Six answers to one question, and no answers to the other four questions. I didn't mean to dodge those questions, it's just that I've never been to a therapist before and am somewhat trusting she'll be able to take me through my issues and help me work them out. This therapist was recommend to me by my WAW and her therapist. It's only been my 3rd session, and I felt my only job for now is to be as honest as possible to my therapist so she can setup the proper program for me to do. Perhaps wrong, but I want to go into it without any preconceived notion of what to expect, which is actually really scary to me since I'm the type that would usually want to take matters into my own hands (which hasn't worked thus far, since it didn't do my WAW any good). thanks!
Last edited by penumbra; 05/23/15 01:37 PM.
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[The interesting thing is, I put my job on hold for a month because of my marriage, and while I still feel stressed about the separation, I actually feel much more optimistic and calm. I think my job is taking too much of my life and blinded me to what is really important... I probably was taking my work stress home and unleashing it on my family. The past year has been difficult at work because of my recent promotion and additional responsibilities, which I had a hard time handling. Instead of wasting valuable time in therapy, I would go to your wife with a plan: 1. stop all angry outbursts and any other love busters using the Marriage Builders program 2. eliminate all pornography 3. create romantic love in your marriage by meeting each others emotional needs and by scheduling 20+ hours per week of undivided attention. This means you commit to 4 4 hour dates per week, meeting the intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. THIS plan will save your marriage. Sitting in counseling taking about your mommy and "abandonment" issues will not save your marriage. Yea, I'm with you, I'm not the type to cry about the past and how someone else affected me, and I don't even like the idea of going to a therapist, but I want to keep my mind open at this point. My job is to be as honest as possible to all my therapist's questioning. These are what my therapist said my issues were, so I'm going to trust she knows what she's doing since I obviously don't. I want to supplement the therapist with ideas to make myself my attractive to my WAW. Any suggestions since she's not open to spending even an hour with me alone, much less 4. I think that's my eventual goal for sure, but for now, she can probably stand 10 minutes with me before making an excuse to leave for something. Small steps, I know. thanks!
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[
Yea, I'm with you, I'm not the type to cry about the past and how someone else affected me, and I don't even like the idea of going to a therapist, but I want to keep my mind open at this point. My job is to be as honest as possible to all my therapist's questioning. These are what my therapist said my issues were, so I'm going to trust she knows what she's doing since I obviously don't. You should trust that this process is a money maker for her, but it won't help your marriage. It is a complete waste of time. The process we are giving you comes from a seasoned clinical psychologist who specializes in saving marriages. Your "therapist" has no idea how to save marriages. As a clinical psychologist who has been in direct therapy with 50,000 individuals and supervised over 600 counselors, I have not found that resolving issues of the past does much to help people deal with issues of the present. In most cases I've witnessed, it makes matters worse because it drags the most unpleasant experiences of the past into the present. I know that my perspective is in conflict with many therapists who are trained to treat the past before they can treat the present, but I have yet to see any convincing evidence that this approach is more effective than letting the past stay in the past. My personal experience is that dredging up the past actually increases the risk of suicide and other dangerous symptoms of mental disorders. Another important reason that I am opposed to bringing up issues of the past is that it wastes time. When you could be forming an effective plan and putting the plan into motion to resolve an issue of the present, you spend months, and even years focused on the past while the problems of the present keep building up, eventually burying the client. In your situation, I strongly recommend that you not waste your time talking about the past. And don't try analyzing your husband. I know that his affair was a terrible shock to your system, and you want to feel closure. You have been terribly disillusioned by what he did, but the best you can do under the circumstances is look to the future instead of the past. Don't discuss the past with your husband or anyone else for a while, and see if you don't agree with me that it helps improve your relationship and it also causes you to be more relaxed. Focusing on the past causes depression, while focusing on the future with an eye to making it successful causes optimism and gives you energy. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2413831#Post2413831"Some counselors think it's a good idea to "resolve issues of the past" by talking about them week after week, month after month, year after year. It keeps these counselors in business, but does nothing to resolve the issue. In fact, it usually makes their poor clients chronically depressed.
My experience as a Clinical Psychologist has proven to me that dredging up unpleasant experiences of the past merely brings the unhappiness of the past into the present. The problems of the present are difficult enough to solve without spending time and energy trying to resolve issues of the past, which are essentially unresolvable. You can make your future happy, but you can't do a thing about bad experiences of the past, except think and talk about them -- and that makes the bad experiences of the past, bad experiences of the present." Dr. Willard Harley An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. One of the reasons I'm not so keen on dredging up the past as a part of therapy is that it brings up memories that carry resentment along with them. If I'm not careful, a single counseling session can open up such a can of worms that the presenting problem gets lost in a flood of new and painful memories. If the goal of therapy is to "resolve" every past issue, that seems to me to be a good way to keep people coming for therapy for the rest of their lives. That's because it's an insurmountable goal. We simply cannot resolve everything that's ever bothered us.
Instead, I tend to focus my attention on the present and the future, because they are what we can all do something about. The past is over and done with. Why waste our effort on the past when the future is upon us. Granted, it's useful to learn lessons from the past, but if we dwell on the past, we take our eyes off the future which can lead to disaster.
I personally believe that therapy should focus most attention, not on the past, but on ways to make the future sensational.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Does your W know about MB? Will she come here and post?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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[
I want to supplement the therapist with ideas to make myself my attractive to my WAW. Any suggestions since she's not open to spending even an hour with me alone, much less 4. I think that's my eventual goal for sure, but for now, she can probably stand 10 minutes with me before making an excuse to leave for something.
Small steps, I know. thanks! WE are not interested in "small steps" because that will not help your marriage. Your marriage is on the rocks and won't be around long enough while you take "small steps" wasting time talking about your mommy in a therapists office. You are in a critical situation right now where your marriage could go either way. So you don't have time to waste on non-solutions. You need to have a PLAN to save your marriage and if you don't have that, you won't save your marriage. Its really that simple. So, do you want to execute a PLAN to save your marriage, or do you want go to "therapy" and discuss your childhood? Take your pick.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Don't get me wrong, I am all about people making a buck so I don't hold it against your "therapist" that she wants to make a buck keeping you coming back to talk about your childhood forever. But not at the expense of your marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I didn't mean to dodge those questions, it's just that I've never been to a therapist before and am somewhat trusting she'll be able to take me through my issues and help me work them out. This therapist was recommend to me by my WAW and her therapist.
It's only been my 3rd session, and I felt my only job for now is to be as honest as possible to my therapist so she can setup the proper program for me to do. Perhaps wrong, but I want to go into it without any preconceived notion of what to expect, which is actually really scary to me since I'm the type that would usually want to take matters into my own hands (which hasn't worked thus far, since it didn't do my WAW any good). Do you know the answer to the remaining questions? Can you answer me "yes" or "no", please?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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