Trying desperately to schedule a date night downtown. Dinner, drinks, dancing, maybe a piano bar. She's afraid she will disappoint me due to what she wouldn't be willing to do. I reminded her that she got to set the limits...but if she set them loose enough, I'd show her a time like she's never seen.

Too much?

No. Keep at it. Lightly. It's just some fun etc....

I'm just afraid I will urge for more than she's willing to give.

Keep it fun. No pressure

God I miss her.

Expect her to act this way for some time. It's normal.
You'll be trying to hug a porcupine for awhile.

If it becomes too much to handle, get on antidepressants and keep pressing on.

We wound up spending Saturday evening at a concert. The evening went well (I think) but not exactly as I suspected it might. As is customary, she had a drink or two with dinner and a couple at the concert.

As it was the eve of Father's Day, she became sullen and we spent a good amount of time outside the venue. She spent a great deal of time talking about how much she missed her dad. Considering the fact that she hasn't really allowed herself to grieve since he died in November, I think understand what she is going through.

This topic transitioned to the topic of us. Her (and her counselor) feel strongly that she needs to deal with her issues before she can focus on "us". She related over and over that she didn't know how it would work out. Some of what she said related more to rambling than to conversational speech -- but I didn't stand in the way. At least she was communicating with me.

At one point she said she wanted an honest answer to a question -- then asked me if I've ever asked a question in that I was afraid of what the answer might be. Her question -- if this didn't work out, could we still be friends? I thought for a short minute and answered that YES, we could probably be friends, but that it might take a while to get beyond the loss of the marital relationship and simply be friends. I couldn't tell how she felt about that answer.

At this point, she had consumed a couple more drinks and was "waxing philosophically". I asked her if she wanted to take a walk and get somewhere quieter so we could hear ourselves think. We did and for the most part, I let her talk -- empathizing with her when the situation called for it. I paid particular attention to not verbalize anything regarding me. I let this be about her -- how she felt and what she was comfortable with. Somehow the discussion transitioned to sex. She wants it, she needs it, but expressed over and over that she didn't want to "lead me on" and set a potential false sense of "its all ok". I assured her that I was there to provide her with whatever I could to help meet her needs and that I could handle that it was a temporary thing and didn't mean that we had gotten over the hump.

**EDIT**

The next morning, the tension wasn't as "present" and we seemed to have a good day. I was mindful not to pretend like it was the night before and that everything was all better.

Father's Day was uneventful -- only one kiddo home. I didn't want to make a big deal of the day out of respect for the hurt she still feels regarding her father's death. We ordered pizza and watched movies. As 8pm approached, I had a few things that I had to take care of for work. I told her I loved her and kissed her on her forehead as I headed to the office. By the time I finished my tasks, she had gone off to bed (430 was going to come early in the am).

I was estatic over the weekend. I think the fact that she talked to me (alcohol influenced or not) was an encouraging sign. During the pleasure phase of the evening, I felt that there was still that connection. I wasn't upset that it was one sided. I simply wanted to show her that I could give her pleasure instead of the pain that she remembers from the past couple of years.

Did I do right? Did I do too much? Was there something that I should have done that I didn't? You guys/gals have seen/experienced a lot more of these kind of situations. I hope that you can continue to help guide me through to the end game -- true reconciliation.

I think you did good, even though you didn't have to give us that gross sexually graphic description. That was completely unnecessary.

Something is going on behind the scenes that you don't know about that is driving this boat. I believe she is having an affair and you just haven't uncovered it yet. There are many red flags here, but another one that came up is her request for you to be her "friend" if the marriage ends. That is terribly important to adulterers because they want to keep spouse around as an option in case the affair doesn't work out. A spouse that is leaving the marriage because the marriage is so bad, doesn't want to be "friends" with the spouse. After all, they are leaving the marriage to get away from this person, why would they want to remain "friends?"

It also helps alleviate their guilt over breaking up the marriage. "please be my friend even tho I just stuck it to you."

Her counselor is very probably encouraging her to end the marriage, and/or separate. For certain, the counselor is not helping your marriage.

Please step up your spy resources. There are way too many red flags here.

Understood

Wouldnt' it be terrible if you found out later that you went to all these extraordinary lengths when the problem was an affair all along? And that while you were focusing on something else, the affair became more and more entrenched? It became so entrenched that you missed your opportunity to bust it up and save your marriage.

Wouldn't that be terrible? And wouldn't you be MAD at us for not pushing you to rule it out? Because that has happened around here!!

I am not dismissing y'alls experience or insight. I've done everything I can think of and have found nada. Only thing I haven't done is follow her around at work. That would be hard to pull off as it is in a restricted area. no emails, no texts, no chats, keylogger in place. gps active and functioning.

What about a voice activated recorder in her car? Do you have spyware on her phone?

Just a reminder that our TOS forbid posting graphic sexual details on the forum. Thanks.

yes and yes

Well, W asked me to stop with the post its, cards, gifts and loving messages. She says she feels guilty that she is unable to reciprocate. I'm still taking care of the house, meals and such but don't know what to do beyond that.

Even so, we had a good weekend. No fights, dinner out and a movie. She starts another class today so I doubt she'll have any spare time for another 5 weeks.

Marriage counseling has stopped...as the counselor thinks she needs grief counseling first. W is having those sessions weekly.

W still won't entertain MB. She insists that she has to fix herself before she can work on "us".

What should I do to ensure EN's are still being met?

Hmmm. I wonder why.

"....Read Dr. Harley's Q&A column on affection and start doing the things it lists, daily. Tell her you love her. Write her notes and leave them for her when you go to work or slip them into her lunch, books, or whatever else. Buy her a card....."

As I said above, I was doing these things and she asked me to stop because she felt guilty that she couldn't reciprocate at this time. From the damage her mother caused early on, W has always felt this way.

I'm looking for creative ideas that won't trigger her guilt.

Thanks in advance

Don't stop.

Don't worry about that. She may work through a range of emotions as she falls back in love with you. That's for her to handle, not you. Just be the charming guy who is pursuing her.