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First, I'm not going to debate the points you've made above that are just not true, that I've stated in the past, I'll let you read past posts.
Everything is fine about living together, and that's what we have decided to do at this time. I love it and so does she. Marriage will probably be in the future, but there are MANY, MANY folks that "shack up" as you say (I call it living together), that are doing every bit as good or better than their married counterparts. Marriage does NOT guarantee a thing, as is clearly evident by the history of the posters here, and statistics.
If I insisted on marriage and my GF did not, we would not be following the POJA, which we choose to follow. That is more important, along with other basic concepts that foster a good relationship... not just living quarters.
While Dr. Harley did suggest that we marry or move apart, he also said that our situation may not be inappropriate.
I've come for advise, just that, as I do from many sources. And I don't always agree, nor is all advise applicable or even well advised. Looks like you've been given plenty of advice that you can't stomach because it doesn't agree with your biases. Thanks for the tip about the applicability and suitability of all advise, BTW. Everyone else in the world just blindly accepts what other people tell them without evaluating it's rationality, you're really the only one using discretion. Our points of view about marriage vs living together do have a few statistics behind them too. But that's really beside the point. What you came here to do is possibly to solicit advice, but most of this thread is like every other one I see here from someone who is combative with MB veterans (and many of those from people who refuse to marry for whatever reason). You're convinced your situation is somehow unique in way that invalidates everyone else's point of view to some degree. You're obviously not 100% satisfied with your situation yet you reject advice that makes the architect of your situation (YOU) uncomfortable. Good luck with things.
Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders" 2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more. When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29 Married: 7 years Together: 8 years D-day: 10/5/2014 D filed: 1/22/2015 D Final: 6/4/2015 My story
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Just got a chance to listen to your show...
1. You still do not believe that your affair had anything to do with your divorce, and you drastically downplayed the affair when talking to Dr. Harley and Joyce. Your mindset is still very wayward, and a danger to your ex-wife.
2. Dr. Harley told you to get a good tax attorney that can help you protect your resources while getting married. He said you could have it all. You admitted you don't even have an attorney, so your assumptions that there are financial drawbacks is your own uninformed opinion. Get the expert's opinion.
Dr. Harley said he knew good tax attorneys he could recommend. Have you followed through with that?
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I've just listened to your show.
Dr Harley nailed your intention never to remarry, despite your saying that the only thing stopping you was the tax situation. He asked you whether, if the tax thing could be sorted out, you would marry, and you said no.
He called your bluff by offering to find you an attorney who would ensure that marriage did not disfavour you. He got you commitment to following through on that.
He backed the forum posters who told you that you should not live together without the commitment of marriage.
He tied you up like a kipper!
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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***EDIT***
Last edited by Toujours; 08/10/15 04:07 PM. Reason: TOS: Non-MB advice
Well.. long story short - went through hell and back... and i am happy i didn't give up. It was on the brink of collapse... lost weight and everything, but turned around. It was amazing turn around. But now happy.. with 2 kids and going strong ! Thanks for all the souls who helped me then ! One thing I realized is - yes you do need expert help !
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I've just listened to your show.
Dr Harley nailed your intention never to remarry, despite your saying that the only thing stopping you was the tax situation. He asked you whether, if the tax thing could be sorted out, you would marry, and you said no.
He called your bluff by offering to find you an attorney who would ensure that marriage did not disfavour you. He got you commitment to following through on that.
He backed the forum posters who told you that you should not live together without the commitment of marriage.
He tied you up like a kipper! Sugar Cane, A few points (and you need to re listen to the show) Dr. Harley never nailed my intention to never remarry, as it didn't exist. I said at least twice during the show that I would, regardless of the tax situation. I did following up on getting tax advise (from one Dr. Harley recommended) and two others, and still working on it. If you listen carefully to what Dr. Harley said in the beginning and I'll quote, "It might not be something that I would be opposed to, because an argument could be made that might help them to reconcile�. It was a good, positive discussion... sorry you didn't benefit from it. More to come, waiting for some responses.
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Just got a chance to listen to your show...
1. You still do not believe that your affair had anything to do with your divorce, and you drastically downplayed the affair when talking to Dr. Harley and Joyce. Your mindset is still very wayward, and a danger to your ex-wife.
2. Dr. Harley told you to get a good tax attorney that can help you protect your resources while getting married. He said you could have it all. You admitted you don't even have an attorney, so your assumptions that there are financial drawbacks is your own uninformed opinion. Get the expert's opinion.
Dr. Harley said he knew good tax attorneys he could recommend. Have you followed through with that? Prisca, You need to listen to the show again. The OW is, and has been, clearly out of the picture, and never affected the divorce. She is a non issue at this point. My comment re tax advise is in adjacent post. Also, I do have my own place, since Aug 1. More to come......
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It was a good, positive discussion... sorry you didn't benefit from it. I did benefit from it. Are you going to remarry?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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It was a good, positive discussion... sorry you didn't benefit from it. I did benefit from it. Are you going to remarry? Yes. Did you get a GOOD chance to digest what Dr. Harley said about Legal Marriage vs. Religious marriage. He makes some very good points against legal marriage as it doesn't support religious marriage, nor is it getting better, although he still supports both. Interesting.
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It was a good, positive discussion... sorry you didn't benefit from it. I did benefit from it. Are you going to remarry? Yes. Did you get a GOOD chance to digest what Dr. Harley said about Legal Marriage vs. Religious marriage. He makes some very good points against legal marriage as it doesn't support religious marriage, nor is it getting better, although he still supports both. Interesting. You are here again, arguing about the usefulness and necessity of marriage. It's what you have done since you first posted. Dr Harley advocates for traditional marriage. He defends it as the essential building block of society. He thinks its importance is critical, and he regrets its decline. His view is unequivocal, and it has been expressed in many places, where I have read and listened to it. You don't appear to agree with him about the fundamental importance of marriage, to individuals, children and society. That is fair enough; you are entitled to your views! I just don't understand why you have come here to argue your view, on this traditional marriage forum. This forum is here to help people who want to build good marriages. Why come here to dispute the importance of marriage with us?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Just got a chance to listen to your show...
1. You still do not believe that your affair had anything to do with your divorce, and you drastically downplayed the affair when talking to Dr. Harley and Joyce. Your mindset is still very wayward, and a danger to your ex-wife.
2. Dr. Harley told you to get a good tax attorney that can help you protect your resources while getting married. He said you could have it all. You admitted you don't even have an attorney, so your assumptions that there are financial drawbacks is your own uninformed opinion. Get the expert's opinion.
Dr. Harley said he knew good tax attorneys he could recommend. Have you followed through with that? Prisca, You need to listen to the show again. The OW is, and has been, clearly out of the picture, and never affected the divorce. She is a non issue at this point. Just because you say she was a non-issue does not make her a non-issue. That's my point entirely -- that you KEEP insisting she was a non-issue. I don't need to relisten to the show to know that. I say again: you drastically downplay the affair and the affects it had on your marriage and your ex-wife. Your mindset is still very wayward, and a danger to your ex-wife. To keep insisting that the OW was a non-issue in your divorce is a great insult to every BS on this board.
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You need to listen to the show again. Did you get a GOOD chance to digest what Dr. Harley said How disrespectful and condescending. You don't like what a poster says so you tell them they didn't need to listen to the show that they ALREADY told you they listened to? I find this ironic especially since these are the same posters who you argued with for pages and pages only to later get the same advice that you later got from Dr Harley himself: Marry her or move out. These posters are people who listen to the radio show regularly (and have done so for years) and have done the online program. Think twice before dismissing their advice.
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Just got a chance to listen to your show...
1. You still do not believe that your affair had anything to do with your divorce, and you drastically downplayed the affair when talking to Dr. Harley and Joyce. Your mindset is still very wayward, and a danger to your ex-wife.
2. Dr. Harley told you to get a good tax attorney that can help you protect your resources while getting married. He said you could have it all. You admitted you don't even have an attorney, so your assumptions that there are financial drawbacks is your own uninformed opinion. Get the expert's opinion.
Dr. Harley said he knew good tax attorneys he could recommend. Have you followed through with that? Prisca, You need to listen to the show again. The OW is, and has been, clearly out of the picture, and never affected the divorce. She is a non issue at this point. Just because you say she was a non-issue does not make her a non-issue. That's my point entirely -- that you KEEP insisting she was a non-issue. I don't need to relisten to the show to know that. I say again: you drastically downplay the affair and the affects it had on your marriage and your ex-wife. Your mindset is still very wayward, and a danger to your ex-wife. To keep insisting that the OW was a non-issue in your divorce is a great insult to every BS on this board. Homelover has been confronted about this issue on these forums before and ends up conceding that this is an "OW" and not a "GF" and that he is going to go NC. Only to later come back, still in contact and again arguing that she is not an OW and a "non-issue" (Despite also telling us that he can't stop thinking about her!) An example from 2013: [
Thanks for the reply. Not sure what you mean by "really don't appreciate the reference to your BW's substance abuse", is it inappropriate to mention that? That is the reason for a failed marriage. Yes, understand what you mean by the OW... learning these acronyms is hard. Just so you know, most adulterers lie about the supposed wrongs of their betrayed spouse. They are practiced liars who have spent much time concocting rationalizations for their crimes. Sure, there are usually problems in the marriage, but none of it justifies adultery. Adultery sure does not resolve a bad marriage. Adultery is the worst form of abuse. That is what you are doing to your wife. So it is very telling to see you mention her wrongs when you are committing the gravest crime against her. Melody, Please see my last message in "Is marriage really the answer?", where I responded to you. Must say, my decision to leave the OW was largely based on info from you and this forum. A real learning experience. Thanks. Except he was not able to maintain the NC and they ended up continuing the affair, by his own admission. I am going to guess that there is still some form of contact with this OW. It's the only explanation for why he would keep insisting she is a "non-issue", when he has already admitted previously that she is an issue and that he was going NC.
Last edited by SusieQ; 08/18/15 03:44 PM.
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You need to listen to the show again. Did you get a GOOD chance to digest what Dr. Harley said How disrespectful and condescending. You don't like what a poster says so you tell them they didn't need to listen to the show that they ALREADY told you they listened to? I find this ironic especially since these are the same posters who you argued with for pages and pages only to later get the same advice that you later got from Dr Harley himself: Marry her or move out. These posters are people who listen to the radio show regularly (and have done so for years) and have done the online program. Think twice before dismissing their advice. Sorry you feel this way. I quoted EXACTLY what Dr. Harley said, and if you don't believe it, listen again. I'm not disrespectful nor condescending... just telling the truth. I know he promotes traditional marriage, but he has clearly commented on the difference between that and religious marriage and the fact the traditional marriage doe NOT support any of the concepts he teaches, and make it more difficult to do, and easier to end. I did move out, like I mentioned.
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Just got a chance to listen to your show...
1. You still do not believe that your affair had anything to do with your divorce, and you drastically downplayed the affair when talking to Dr. Harley and Joyce. Your mindset is still very wayward, and a danger to your ex-wife.
2. Dr. Harley told you to get a good tax attorney that can help you protect your resources while getting married. He said you could have it all. You admitted you don't even have an attorney, so your assumptions that there are financial drawbacks is your own uninformed opinion. Get the expert's opinion.
Dr. Harley said he knew good tax attorneys he could recommend. Have you followed through with that? Prisca, You need to listen to the show again. The OW is, and has been, clearly out of the picture, and never affected the divorce. She is a non issue at this point. Just because you say she was a non-issue does not make her a non-issue. That's my point entirely -- that you KEEP insisting she was a non-issue. I don't need to relisten to the show to know that. I say again: you drastically downplay the affair and the affects it had on your marriage and your ex-wife. Your mindset is still very wayward, and a danger to your ex-wife. To keep insisting that the OW was a non-issue in your divorce is a great insult to every BS on this board. Homelover has been confronted about this issue on these forums before and ends up conceding that this is an "OW" and not a "GF" and that he is going to go NC. Only to later come back, still in contact and again arguing that she is not an OW and a "non-issue" (Despite also telling us that he can't stop thinking about her!) An example from 2013: [
Thanks for the reply. Not sure what you mean by "really don't appreciate the reference to your BW's substance abuse", is it inappropriate to mention that? That is the reason for a failed marriage. Yes, understand what you mean by the OW... learning these acronyms is hard. Just so you know, most adulterers lie about the supposed wrongs of their betrayed spouse. They are practiced liars who have spent much time concocting rationalizations for their crimes. Sure, there are usually problems in the marriage, but none of it justifies adultery. Adultery sure does not resolve a bad marriage. Adultery is the worst form of abuse. That is what you are doing to your wife. So it is very telling to see you mention her wrongs when you are committing the gravest crime against her. Melody, Please see my last message in "Is marriage really the answer?", where I responded to you. Must say, my decision to leave the OW was largely based on info from you and this forum. A real learning experience. Thanks. Except he was not able to maintain the NC and they ended up continuing the affair, by his own admission. I am going to guess that there is still some form of contact with this OW. It's the only explanation for why he would keep insisting she is a "non-issue", when he has already admitted previously that she is an issue and that he was going NC. You're quoting stuff from 2 years ago... what's the point?
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Homelover, the only thing you've done since coming back today is argue with posters.
Why are you here?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Homelover, the only thing you've done since coming back today is argue with posters.
Why are you here? He's been arguing with posters since his first thread YEARS ago about: shacking up importance of marriage whether the OW was an OW or his "GF" (despite the fact that he was still living with his BW at the time he was posting at one point) opposite sex friendship impact on marriage whether he needs to implement NC with the OW while rebuilding relationship with exBW (despite the fact that he admitted he couldn't stop thinking about OW) Amazingly, he is the one that is angry at the forum for trying to set him straight and teach him Dr Harley's works (that he could have read on his own) when he should be thankful so many used their precious (volunteer) time away from families etc to try to help him! Nice!!
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Homelover, what is your question?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Homelover, the only thing you've done since coming back today is argue with posters.
Why are you here? He's been arguing with posters since his first thread YEARS ago about: shacking up importance of marriage whether the OW was an OW or his "GF" (despite the fact that he was still living with his BW at the time he was posting at one point) opposite sex friendship impact on marriage whether he needs to implement NC with the OW while rebuilding relationship with exBW (despite the fact that he admitted he couldn't stop thinking about OW) Amazingly, he is the one that is angry at the forum for trying to set him straight and teach him Dr Harley's works (that he could have read on his own) when he should be thankful so many used their precious (volunteer) time away from families etc to try to help him! Nice!! Susie, You really don't have to spend your precious time trying to help me, and you have given no support nor help and don't appreciate what I've accomplished at all. All of the above has been commented on and should have been brought to a conclusion, which, for some reason you have chosen not to believe, but continue to dwell on it. Isn't it time to offer helpful advise, or say nothing at all? And Sugar Cane, You never did respond to my question: "Did you get a GOOD chance to digest what Dr. Harley said about Legal Marriage vs. Religious marriage? He makes some very good points against legal marriage as it doesn't support religious marriage, nor is it getting better, although he still supports both. Interesting." If you would listen again you would understand exactly what Dr. Harley was talking about and perhaps you could make comments relevant to the situation. I'm seriously not trying to be condescending, I'm stating facts and looking for explanations. I'm sure you have them, and I don't understand the reluctance to help.
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Homelover, what is your question? Please answer.
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Sugar Cane,
You never did respond to my question:
"Did you get a GOOD chance to digest what Dr. Harley said about Legal Marriage vs. Religious marriage? Yes, I got a GOOD chance to digest what Dr Harley said, thank you.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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