To clarify, when I say don't go along with the fake separation, I mean don't call it that. You can't stop her from moving into the guest room but you don't have to go along with the pretense of calling it a "separation" when you are not separated.

Also, did you get ahold of the OM's mother? Please do not give up on this exposure. You have them on the ropes and this can be a powerful exposure because it will ruin your wife's future hopes with him.

Thanks. It is all coming to a head. Having had an initial meeting with HR where they were told it was all fine and I heard him say it has fallen flat on its face, they got hauled in again today to face questions on the use of phones etc.

When she finds out that our daughters know too she will go off the deep end.

On the "separation", this would not be a ruse, I am thinking that if she choose him, this might be the initial result of that decision ie an interim step before we resolve the full separation. So I meant if this happens, should I continue with Plan A until she leaves for good or at that point should I move to Plan B?

The work thing is a big problem. What has become clear in our discussions is how important a career is to her because she gave up work for 5 years to move abroad for my career. In fact I suspect it will be one of her "needs". She also really loves this job. I am not considering backing down on the condition that she leaves, but she is going to link the exposure to HR with affecting her big need. What would be a good tactic to address this?

Awesome!!


This is great. She needs to explain to her children her reasons for wrecking their family. I am sorry for your children, but they do much better when they know the truth.


My point is that a couple is not "separated" if they live together. That is a pretense you should not go along with. You should continue with Plan A even if she moves out. And I don't want you to fear her moving out, because the affair will crumble FASTER if that happens. You really should be reading the book Surviving an Affair and pay special attention to the case of Sue and Jon.


I don't think you understand the concept of emotional needs. An emotional need, in the context of marriage, is something that when MET, inspires an incredible attraction to her partner. Having that job does not complement her marriage in any way and it is not a need met by you. Anything that is harmful to your marriage should be eliminated and this little job falls into that category.

This is not to say that she can't work. But she needs to find a career that complements her marriage. She has shown that she has extremely poor boundaries around members of the opposite sex, so she would need to find a career where your marriage is safe.

To answer your question, your wife has jeopardized her own career by behaving in an unprofessional and unethical manner at work. She is in damage control mode and will likely shift the blame to others. But you are not responsible for her unprofessional behavior. If she attacks you, just politely say: "I am sorry you chose to have an affair at work. I know the consequences are not fun to face."

If her career is important to her, then she needs to be much more professional in the workplace. People who have workplace affairs are viewed as loose cannons and hiring managers do not want them on their teams. Very doubtful she will ever get promoted and more likely will be quietly "managed out" on performance. They will now be scrutinizing her every move. I am surprised your wife does not know any better than this.

If her career is that important to her, then she is better off with a voluntary resignation and starting fresh at a new company where her reputation is not blackened. She will never go anywhere at this company because she has wrecked her reputation. I would make this point to her.

If she is smart, she will quietly resign and pledge to be more professional in the future. This is a lesson she needs to learn because having affairs in the workplace is a sure fire career killer.

And don't you dare take the blame for her blackened reputation; she did that all on her own. Her reputation is blackened by her own behavior, period. They would have found out anyway eventually.

+1,000,000


She is in her way out; she just hasn't realized it yet.

So agree!!

Here is how I would approach this:

WW: I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU RUINED MY CAREER!! HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME!! YOU KNOW HOW MUCH MY CAREER MEANS TO ME. ESPECIALLY AFTER ALL MY SACRIFICES FOR YOU AND THE KIDS!!

James: I am so sorry you chose to have an affair at work. I am asking that you leave this company out of respect for me and the children and end all contact with the OM. It hurts me so deeply to see you go off every morning to see the OM. Please stop hurting me.

I do care about you and I know that your career is important to you so I am hopeful that you will leave this company and start fresh with a new company. I am concerned that since you had an affair at this company that it will greatly harm your future there. Going to a new company will give you a fresh start.

WW: IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT THAT THEY KNOW!!!

James: I am sorry you chose to have an affair at work.

Tell your WW that affairs have consequences. Work place affairs result in leaving the job as one of the consequences.

You (WW), did not value this job or you would of not had your affair. Your affair is why you are losing this job.

Thanks again. I have read the first few chapters of Surviving an Affair including Sue and John. That was the main reason for me coming on this forum because I struggle to follow the timing elements of all of this in the context of a real life example.

I can't see that Sue and John were following the advice on here or if they did what order they did it in.

What seems to be coming clear to me is that Plan B only kicks in if I start getting ill as a result of following Plan A and that Plan A should be followed even during potential separation discussions and even if one or other of us moves out.

When I say work would be an important need for her, I suspect she would say that "respect" for her work is important and that she needs me to show her that respect.

On this last point, should I try an emotional needs discussion/questionnaire with her now?

Melody have you some good things to say. Your wife's job is a poisoned well. It is doubtful her career has a future with that company. Moving to a new area would be very helpful as she could have a fresh start.

YOU should Not move out!

EJ,

The advice given here is to help you avoid an outcome like John and Sue's where you have to wait for the affair to die a natural death. This would be the hardest on both of you emotionally and also the much more expensive option. Exposure kills affairs and greatly expedites the process. Dr. Harley himself often talks about this on his daily radio show.

There are dozens and dozens of examples here of men following the plan being presented to you and saving their marriage without having to wait through months of separation. MelodyLane has a great example in the link she has in her signature.

The timing isn't predictable unfortunately. Only God knows what will happen but we are giving you the best possible plan to result in the recovery of your marriage.

You are in Plan A and shouldn't be thinking about Plan B yet. I would not approach your wife with ANY MB materials until she has ended her affair and agreed to the emergency precautions outlined in Surviving an Affair.

The Sue and Jon case was 20+ years ago and since that time, Dr. Harley has improved his methods and seen the spectacular benefits of exposure, etc. I don't know if Dr Harley told him to expose or not. He most certainly would today. He has rewritten SAA to include those methods. So you have been the beneficiary of long, successful experience.

And keep in mind, that we are not giving you our personal opinions. We are giving you a step by step guide that comes from Dr. Harley.


Exactly!


We want you to always show her respect. However, you should never tolerate marriage wrecking, destructive decisions. Staying at her current job falls into that category.


HELL NO. Focus 1000% on killing the affair and getting her out of that job.

Could you do a little Plan A dreaming with your wife in which y'all move, she finds a better job that supports the marriage and you live happily ever after? Be fun and light about but put the idea of leaving this behind and changing things in the marriage so you are both happy and protected.

Also, never accept responsibility for the consequences of her affair. You told the truth. That is nothing to apologize for.

Don't direct her to MB. Until she has taken all extraordinary precautions, she is acting as an enemy of the marriage. You do not show the enemy your strategy book.

As I mentioned earlier I was unable to get the OM's mothers phone number. However his wife did forward my email about wanting to save my family.

She forwarded her response this morning:

"I have asked archangel raphael to put you all in his loving light ,trust that everything is happening for the highest good of all concerned with love and light"

We are in not religious in any way and if we were sent this sort of an email in normal times, we would laugh at the crazy godsquad (apologies to the believers on this site). I am wondering how to turn what will be a clear issue for my wife to our advantage.

Well maybe I should start to believe. A little religious digging found her mobile number and she is the president of a rotary club!

Good for you!! Please call her up and ask her to use her influence to persuade her creepy son to leave your wife alone. Ask for her help in saving your marriage, even if it means calling up your wife.

Great detective work.

Quick update:

I called his mother and spoke to her for about ten minutes. Basic story is she is not much help. She is aware of the situation already because of the issues with him and his wife and their ongoing divorce. She told me she has spoken to him about it already and discussed the issues that will arise if they try to make a go of it - he has no kids, that our kids will probably hate him, popped affair "bubble" etc. And she said he understood and it made no difference.

It turns out that his parents were divorced as a result of his father's affair, so I suspect talking about it is bringing back memories for her. He may also be using that to reinforce his thoughts: well It turned out alright for me type attitude.

I am now worried about having told my children. My elder child asked her mum why she would be going to marry another man and that she did not want this to happen (I didn't say this to her, she has extrapolated). And my wife just denied all of it and the upshot seems to be that at best I was joking or at worst I was lying to try to hurt them. I don't want to go back to my daughter and reopen it because I am not going to use her as a pawn. Any suggestions?

The HR investigation is rumbling on and will probably report back today or tomorrow. She has remained relatively calm about this after the initial outburst. She was told not to contact him whilst it is going on. My wife did say that this has "got me what I want". I replied that "yes it helps move towards no contact with him whatsoever but what I want is for us to be together again as we used to be"

She has got a CV out there and has a job interview next week. We are also going to get her CV out to other recruitment agencies on Friday to see what else is out there. So this is positive.

She continues to give me hugs on the sofa and in bed. We talk in an almost normal manner, use our pet names for each other etc.

I can't help but think though that something is going on - not with him as such - but more like the calm before the storm. I suspect her mother is winding her up about the job. I think she is likely to be accusing me of ruining her career rather than seeing that the affair has caused this. Her mother still has a huge chip on her shoulder about her career.

She has admitted to me that she is torn between him and me. I have made all the logical arguments - we never argued, no violence, basically we were fine except that we allowed a few things to eat away at us over the last year and did not talk about them. We have even addressed some of those pent up issues already. But on his side, she effectively knows nothing about him. She actually acknowledges all of this. She even understands the logic that if she did commit to not see him, that it would improve our relationship. But she still cannot make that final decision. Various people have suggested counselling to try to help her make a decision. I have seen many begative views on here about counselling, although I find that slightly odd given Dr Harley is a counsellor.

So what to do now? I have refrained from talking about it for the last two days to let it all settle down.