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OM blocked his cell # and it comes into my cell as Anonymous-International. When he first called I pretended I couldn't hear him, asked him for his number. He wouldn't give it to me, as he is a cowardly POSOM.

Last edited by LostOnWestCoast; 12/10/15 03:02 PM.

Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
I have been digging into OM. Unfortunately there is a rather large language barrier and the fact that I don't know his name in the local language makes it very hard to find anything on him. Even to call directory assistance! They are half a day ahead of us and that also makes it difficult. Plus I don't have any mutual acquaintances except my WW and her friend who never got along with me that well before, and was rather hostile about the Exposure. So she has not been helpful after the initial phone call I had with her with the Exposure, and I don't think she will be my ally in this quest. She also has not spoken to this guy in more than 20 years and is not volunteering to contact him.

I did locate his company fax number and have faxed the letter I sent to his friends to it. I think that was what set him off and called to blast me.


I cannot for the life of me think why you only got the fax number instead of the phone number, calling the firm up and asking for his father. That would be the least acceptable effort.

Given he's been in your marriage for 17 years, a PI or background check (use a professional in his home country or one who knows how to do international checks) is a reasonable precaution! This guy is very likely married.

This guy thinks he can block his number and that will be enough to be evade you because he thinks you are complacent. A fax would be an easy thing to explain or evade. You simply cannot afford to look this complacent to your wife or to the OM.

Last edited by indiegirl; 12/11/15 01:39 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Made more progress on the OM exposure, I had to do this in the wee hours of our night. I called his company number but was unable to get much information. I asked about the father and was told he is not active there. I then did some searches and remembered WW told me about their industry from long ago. Sure enough I found his father's business number related to that industry. I called that number and asked to speak to him but was told he is out of the country until January.
Question is, should I wait for his father to return or should I just expose to whomever will listen to me? I'm wondering if doing it to the receptionist will have any effect.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.
here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX


I gave her this template as well as the checklist and talked to her about sending it, but she is resistant. WW is still bitter and angry about the Exposure (it's been a week). She has only talked to two of the eight I exposed to, she said she hasn't talked to a lot of them in many years. The others have tried to contact her and she has not called them back. The Intervention by the MIL and cousin definitely had the desired effect. She no longer denies the A and she admitted she was wrong. She said it an emotional affair, they had never met since we had married seventeen years ago, it was just phone calls and emails spaced many months apart, and only intensified in the last couple months as she got frustrated with me.
She said the Exposure has left her no friends, and many days she wake up feeling she can't go on any more. I reassured her we are here for her, the purpose was not to shame her, but to bring things to light. She said reading the template made her feel horrible, and she said it's just words, she and OM will not contact each other, why do it? I told her it is important for closure, words are important, because it will deliver a finality to it.
This morning I asked her if she can think it through again and send the email. She said, fine, why don't you just go ahead and send it? I told her no, we need to send it together.
Obviously this is causing a lot of LB withdrawals but I am very insistent on it.
Question: Should I ask her to send it as an email, or send it as a handwritten letter as I read somewhere? If she sends it electronically, should I be cc:'ed on it for OM to see?


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Made more progress on the OM exposure, I had to do this in the wee hours of our night. I called his company number but was unable to get much information. I asked about the father and was told he is not active there. I then did some searches and remembered WW told me about their industry from long ago. Sure enough I found his father's business number related to that industry. I called that number and asked to speak to him but was told he is out of the country until January.
Question is, should I wait for his father to return or should I just expose to whomever will listen to me? I'm wondering if doing it to the receptionist will have any effect.

Are you in a position where you can hire a PI to get his full background? It might not cost as much as you think. In the US it can be done for under $500.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I'll have to check, but based on my knowledge of that country, it is very expensive over there, and the laws are much more restrictive on that sort of things than here.

In the meantime, can you answer my question regarding the Final Letter to the OM? As part of Plan A, do I need to seek "Enthusiastic Agreement" from WW in order to send it?


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
I'll have to check, but based on my knowledge of that country, it is very expensive over there, and the laws are much more restrictive on that sort of things than here.

ok, but you can try and hire a PI here, can't you?

Quote
In the meantime, can you answer my question regarding the Final Letter to the OM? As part of Plan A, do I need to seek "Enthusiastic Agreement" from WW in order to send it?

Most waywards will not be "enthusiastic" about sending the letter and that is ok. You aren't in recovery and you certainly are not trained in using the POJA so I am not sure why this would be an issue. You can't force her to send the letter, but you can ask.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
ok, but you can try and hire a PI here, can't you?

Most waywards will not be "enthusiastic" about sending the letter and that is ok. You aren't in recovery and you certainly are not trained in using the POJA so I am not sure why this would be an issue. You can't force her to send the letter, but you can ask.


Yes, I could hire a PI here. But what good will he do? They won't speak the language, the OM and father permanently reside overseas, as well as his ex-wives and kids. They'll probably run a few Google searches like I have and pocket my retainer.
I have hired American PI's several times in the past for various business legal cases. I have yet to find a scrupulous PI. Sorry, I don't think it will help at all in this case.

Ok, makes sense, I will continue to ask and see that the letter is sent.

Last edited by LostOnWestCoast; 12/11/15 12:59 PM.

Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
[

Yes, I could hire a PI here. But what good will he do? They won't speak the language, the OM and father permanently reside overseas, as well as his ex-wives and kids. They'll probably run a few Google searches like I have and pocket my retainer.
I have hired American PI's several times in the past for various business legal cases. I have yet to find a scrupulous PI. Sorry, I don't think it will help at all in this case.

Why not try and find one that does speak the language? I am surprised you say that about PIs because I have worked for 2 Fortune 500 companies and we used PIs with very good outcomes. There has to be some way you can verify the OM's marital status and expose to his family. Can you think of another way?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
ok, but you can try and hire a PI here, can't you?

Most waywards will not be "enthusiastic" about sending the letter and that is ok. You aren't in recovery and you certainly are not trained in using the POJA so I am not sure why this would be an issue. You can't force her to send the letter, but you can ask.


Yes, I could hire a PI here. But what good will he do? They won't speak the language, the OM and father permanently reside overseas, as well as his ex-wives and kids. They'll probably run a few Google searches like I have and pocket my retainer.
I have hired American PI's several times in the past for various business legal cases. I have yet to find a scrupulous PI. Sorry, I don't think it will help at all in this case.
.


Goodness me when I posted to you earlier I found dozens of international and multilingual PIs by using a simple Google search. When I was a journalist I frequently investigated non English speakers with nothing more than a phone, Google translate, the occasional PI and persistence.

If I am more motivated than you are, what message are you sending the APs?



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Made more progress on the OM exposure, I had to do this in the wee hours of our night. I called his company number but was unable to get much information. I asked about the father and was told he is not active there. I then did some searches and remembered WW told me about their industry from long ago. Sure enough I found his father's business number related to that industry. I called that number and asked to speak to him but was told he is out of the country until January.
Question is, should I wait for his father to return or should I just expose to whomever will listen to me? I'm wondering if doing it to the receptionist will have any effect.


What methods did you use to try and get a current contact number for him off her?

One method that's always worked for me is implying youre doing the favour and they will have a problem unless they get back to you.

Say you have urgent information regarding a legal issue with one of his employees and you are making a courtesy call to discuss it with him before instructing your lawyer. But you need to hear from him in the next two days.

Tell the receptionist it's now her responsibility to warn him of an upcoming legal repercussion, which will likely cause a scandal, as you've done your best. he'll call you then.





What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Still unable to get a hold of father or other relatives of OM. The receptionist will not spill any beans other than he's out of the country currently. Will keep trying new tactics.

Regarding my question about messages to OM's Facebook friends: I got through to some of them but I think for some of them my message is stuck in the Message Queue. When I was sending the messages, I never got a prompt to pay $1 to send the message. Is that advice still current, or is there another way to ensure the messages get sent?

Last edited by LostOnWestCoast; 12/17/15 02:04 PM.

Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Did you use a PC?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Yes, of course.
I spaced out each message at least one minute too.
The $1 prompt never came up, not even once.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,440
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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Yes, of course.
I spaced out each message at least one minute too.
The $1 prompt never came up, not even once.
If I remember correctly another poster didn't have to pay the $1 either and it is some new policy that Facebook changed. I will try and find the post. So I think your messages went through.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I think they have done away with the $1 requirement. Now the person is sent an email to accept or reject your message.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Hopefully the FB messages got to their intended contacts.
WW is still sleeping in the guest bedroom and refuses to come back to our master bedroom. She said she may never get over my Exposure, I have embarrassed and shamed her. Since the Exposure, she ignores all her friends except for a couple that she confided to, even though the friends I exposed the A to have all reached out to her. She felt the Exposure was very "evil," especially to our son and she "may never forgive" me for it. I just repeated to her that everything I sent was factual and the attachments were her own emails and words... She gets even more mad about it.
Her cousin said my MIL and her made it very clear to WW that she was wrong to contact OM and she can never do it again. The cousin said she has never heard my MIL yell at WW in that manner, MIL is very upset about her contacting OM. So she's confident that WW will follow my MIL's orders and not contact OM.
I showed a draft of the Final Letter to OM to her, and she told me to go ahead to send it to the OM by email, which I finally did (as she refused to push the "send" button). I've put trackers on our PC's and her cell phone. I monitor them daily as well as our landline (it tracks all calls as well). GPS shows no suspicious movements since too. There has been no contact with OM since my confrontation with her a month ago.
I've read the SAA book cover-to-cover and gave it to her, suggesting that she will find it very useful and applicable to our situation. She has not read the book, nor fill out the Needs Questionnaire that I asked her to.
She also would not go on any UA dates. She behaves normally around our son, but every evening she said she is tired and goes to bed early. I was able to convince her to agree to attend my company Xmas party tomorrow night after initially refusing to do so (I told her it's important for her to be there for my job's sake, which it is).
I had a discussion with WW a couple days ago about moving forward but it devolved into an argument as she got upset about the Exposure again. She said I was "lucky" she's staying in the house, it's all for our son. She cried about it and I comforted her the next day but we are still in the same holding pattern...

My question is: How do I progress this marriage forward to Recovery? Her cousin feels that it is too soon and counterproductive to push her (Exposure was two weeks ago). She also felt that my Exposure tactics were vindictive and ungentlemanlike. I gave her the SAA material but she said it doesn't apply to our case. Anyway I wasn't going to argue with her cousin as she is an ally in my fight.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
My question is: How do I progress this marriage forward to Recovery? Her cousin feels that it is too soon and counterproductive to push her (Exposure was two weeks ago). She also felt that my Exposure tactics were vindictive and ungentlemanlike. I gave her the SAA material but she said it doesn't apply to our case. Anyway I wasn't going to argue with her cousin as she is an ally in my fight.

And let's keep in mind that the cousin has no experience in saving marriages, and that's ok. Just keep her out of the way as much as possible since she is ignorant.

What you should do is continue to be kind to your wife and ask her out on dates. Do things with your child and invite her to come. She will thaw out. When the opportunity comes up, let her know how very hurt you were by her affair and how your marriage cannot survive with a 3rd person in it.

Be sure and leave the book, Surviving an Affair, lying around. Your wife may pick it up. Another good one is Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook. She might find that more interesting. It is a fairly cheap workbook that you need any way.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Yes, I've actually already ordered the workbook, should be getting it soon. I have the Questionnaire lying around but it's still sitting there...
I have been kind and we are doing things together with my son. This glacial pace of thawing is driving me nuts though! Will keep being patient and kind... :-)


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Yes, I've actually already ordered the workbook, should be getting it soon. I have the Questionnaire lying around but it's still sitting there...
I have been kind and we are doing things together with my son. This glacial pace of thawing is driving me nuts though! Will keep being patient and kind... :-)

Then you are doing a great job!! Just keep being patient and she will come around. You should also try and sell her on your "vision" of a new marriage. For example, I would tell her that this program will create a romantic, passionate marriage. Ask her if she wants to join you. Tell her you don't want the old marriage back, but that you want a marriage where you are both happy.

At first she will tell you to go to hell grin but you should plant the seed and look for selling opportunities. Do you listen to the MB radio show? That will help you immensely in understanding how this program works. You can download the app on your phone [free] and listen for free. It is an amazing show. It will really help you understand.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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