I talked to WW. She said she has not given the lawyer the $6K retainer, so no filing has been done. I made an offer to her, instead of moving out and starting the terrible separation process, to stay in the guest room as long as she needs while I show her a good Plan A.
She was very upset at my finding all her secret papers and phone. She was also very upset I contacted MIL about her helping WW in getting an apartment, etc. She said this behavior was not open and honest either.
Right now she is really considering moving out and filing. What should I do? I feel like my allies have been turned against me, I feel terrible.

Lost, your mission should be the same, however, I would not agree that she moves out into the guest house. That is a bad idea. She is not moving out so I don't know why you suggested she is. You won't know if she is moving out until you see her packing and leaving. Until that happens, she is not moving out.

Most waywards threaten divorce and/or threaten to move out when they are angry and it never happens. Just keep snooping and stick to your Plan A.

SHe has no plan here. She is confused and upset that you ruined her affair so she is in pure react mode and doesn't know what she is doing.

YOU, on the other hand, have a plan and are not confused. You just need to stick to it.

As far as finding out her secrets, you have a right to know everything she does since you are her husband. She should stop hiding things from you.

No, not the guest HOUSE, but the guest BEDROOM, where she has been sleeping since I confronted her about the Affair two months ago after I discovered the emails. I told her she can be there for as long as she needs and I will stop pressuring her to come back to the master bedroom, because she was upset by that. If she leaves my Plan A game will be greatly diminished, right?
She has been apartment hunting based on phone logs I recovered so she is definitely serious about it. Also I got a hold of her notes with the lawyer that's why I know she's serious.

Yes, I know I have the right as the husband to know everything. She gets very upset and defensive so I stopped trying to justify it. She told me she knows I've been going through her stuff (to look for the secret phone) but she said she needs it to contact the lawyer.
I need to stop being emotional and reactive, and really think things through next time before showing my cards. I think I told her too quickly about the secrets I found. I should have had a plan to execute correctly. I found she had some applications for apartments already.
It's very hard right now to execute Plan A because she is so mad at me.
The hardest part is everyone is blaming the Exposure for things. The MIL, cousin, her enabler friend, are all saying my behavior is out of line and vengeful. I don't argue with them any more but it is very tough on my psyche.

"Serious" would be talk coupled by actions. That has not happened here. She told you she was considering her options and what that means is that she is very confused.

You are NOT confused and fogged out, though. So what you need to do is stick to your plan. She has no plan, you DO. Keep encouraging her to come back to your bedroom and keep painting a picture of a great marriage.

I understand completely. I know it is hard. Just stick to your plan and try and find her phone. I assure you she is still in touch with the OM. Your wife is upset about your snooping because she has something to hide.

If she moved out into her own apartment, it would wreck her affair for good so don't be so scared about that. Her affair has gone on for 20 years because it has been protected from reality. If she moved out, the fantasy would collapse quickly because the OM is not going to leave his wife for her.

And you do need to move your money to another account so she won't wipe you out!

Moving money: Do I want to do that before she executes on any plans? Right now she is still considering. If I did that, she will surely flip, as it's a big Lovebuster, right? Even if I were to move the money, I believe I can only move 1/2 of the money since it's a community property account. Even that is a substantial sum.
She already had visitation days and schedule drawn up, based on her free (I suppose) consultation from her attorney. She was talking about how to coordinate pickup and dropoff already. She opened a separation checking account under her name. I found a list of 10 apartments that she was checking out. I think those are pretty concrete plans, don't you?
I told her I don't want to talk about that, I want to work on reconciling and showing her how great our marriage can be. She said by snooping and talking to her Mom and friends I already showed my character.
The OM is on another continent and will not move here. However, he is an insidious influence on her against our marriage, that's for sure, even if he has no plans to be with her.

You don't want to leave yourself in a position to be financially wiped out. And since she is making such threats, you need to be prepared and take action to protect yourself. Waywards can cause enormous damage when they are the fog. Dr Harley recommends that you safeguard your finances. The issue of community property is not valid here, because you are not getting divorced.


Concrete plans would be signing a lease, hiring a moving company and filing for divorce. That may happen, but it has not happened YET.


I agree. That affair has no future.

OK, done, it was a lot simpler than I thought, just a phone call and some keystrokes online. I changed all paper documents to electronic since she doesn't have access to the electronic account as well. I just left a month's float in the community account so our checks won't bounce.

Good job!

Maybe I am misunderstanding this part of your response here, but did you verbally say "While I show you good Plan A?"

I would avoid announcing that you are "Plan A'ing" else she may think its fake and insincere. Just a comment.

I agree with Melody... my WW did not threaten me with moving out, she outright was moving out and she said she was moving out while packing up her things. I came home to see the window knocked out with her stuff gone. She filed for divorce and moved out - my WW had a plan... Not to undermine your situation (don't take it the wrong way) but it really sounds like your WW is not quite there yet.

Just keep Plan A'ing that woman

No, I didn't say "Plan A" to WW, she wouldn't know what that is anyway. I told her that "I will work on changing my behavior in our marriage so we can have a loving marriage again." She told me she doesn't believe people can change so I tell her it's my bad behavior that I will change.
She is very angry with the whole Exposure thing so she has no interest in learning MB concepts or talking to the MB coaches, unfortunately.
Yes, I think I have a small window of opportunity right now. She was a bit stunned by my proposal this morning about the guest room, she said I never offered that before. So I asked her to consider it. Unfortunately after that she launched into a barrage of angry comments about the Exposure and talking to her mom and friends without her permission, etc. I ended it by asking her to just consider what my proposal.
Even after my discoveries this past weekend I've been trying to do as much Plan A as possible, doing the little things that she finally told me bothered her a lot, like opening doors, carrying stuff around, etc. I'm trying to be as affectionate as possible but she pushes me away, sometimes physically now. This is a very tough job!

One of the things WW's enabler friend told me was that she felt WW kept everything bottled inside with her, even with her. She never said anything negative about me to her friend, only that I'm just being myself. WW herself admitted it. It was impossible for me to really understand what was bothering her. Even this past year, we probably truly fought once or twice. She is very good at conflict avoidance. She would just make a remark about something, and if I don't do what she wants or even understand it, she would stew about it. I'm guess over 17 years we probably only had 10 serious arguments.
One of the things she told me really bothered her was I joked in front of DS that she could be "overbearing" on our son sometimes, as she would scold him in the same tone as she does with me when he doesn't do what she said, even something very small. She didn't say anything about it at the time, but now it's a huge issue for her. I realize my fault at issuing DJ to her but now it's half a year later...
I read about this in the HNHN book, but it's very hard to get the communications channels open when one side really bottles up like that. I feel like I have to learn a lot more of her signal or "mindread" what she is thinking for this to work.

Be calm, cool and collected. Do what you can to get your bearings and present yourself as stable and centered. Don't let her mood swings twist you up in knots. She's blowing steam right now.
Be pleasant and confident. Her affair is smoke and mirrors. Remember this and it won't feel so threatening. Make home a warm and welcoming place to be. She might move out. If she does it will be a rude awakening!
Being stuck on your exposure is really dumb if you think about it. She's ashamed to have been caught having an affair. You don't have to tell her this but remind yourself so that you don't start acting apologetic for exposing. You did nothing wrong. Telling the truth is not wrong.
If her friends feel the need to support her it's because they're buying her fog. They think all that stuff is real and so does she right now. She's not rational and needs you to be the strong one. CALM, COOL AND COLLECTED!

This is another reason why you shouldn't be reading HNHN at this time. There is a massive difference between a wayward spouse and a disgruntled spouse. A wayward spouse will rewrite history to magnify irritations, going back years. This is done to justify the affair. So while I am sure there were things that made her unhappy, when there is an affair involved, everything is magnified and rewritten.


What about typically? That is quite a bit.

How many conflicts did you have? For example, most couples have many conflicts in a week, but only in a bad marriage will they have arguments. My H and I have many conflicts, but we always work them out amicably without an argument, using the policy of joint agreement.

Were you able to resolve conflicts without arguments?

Wow... That is really true, she even admitted herself that she feels ridiculous at times when she tells other people about the things she hates about me, as they seem so small.

Ten arguments over 17 years is quite a bit? I mean, less than one argument a year is a lot? These are arguments she just raises her voice but for some of them we do resolve them afterwards. We have disagreements about things but there were very few instances when she actually raised her voice and yelled at me. I've seen this happen a lot more with other couples so I thought we were doing OK.

Most couples do fight ALOT, that is for sure. That is because most marriages are very bad. Keep in mind that very few marriages sustain the romantic love and this is a major reason. But any fighting at all is so destructive to marriages.