I was thinking about this, and you guys are right. The problem is, we have one person (me) that is against the divorce. We have 1. My attorney, 2. Her attorney, 3. The judge/court 4. WW trying to move things along. So it's me against 4 other entities. The problem is #3 has the power to move things along, and wouldn't want to see anything "unreasonable" either. They have too many cases clogging the system anyway. The good thing is there is a 6 month waiting period before divorce can proceed.

My attorney isn't 100% against reconciliation either. He told me he had many clients who changed their mind right at the last minute and decided to reconcile. He just warned me not to plan for that but to plan for the worst case, i.e. protect myself. His associate attorney warned me to be very careful even when WW wants to reconcile, as she has seen cases where they use to trick the husbands to find assets, etc.

I did see a little softening in WW's position throughout this weekend. She seems to have delayed her move as there are a lot of logistics involved especially with DS and custody time. Hopefully I'm not getting false hope. I'm continuing to update our friends on this hoping they can talk to her to think rationally. Even her cousin, who became an Enabler, admitted to me that WW is "stupid" after I told her about the POSOM conversation. But she said WW is almost 50 and she needs to make her own decisions, nothing she says can change her mind.

Wouldn't I show Disrespectful Judgment while protecting myself against a divorce? For example, WW feels she needs $YYYY per month in support payments, and I feel that she only needs $XXXX. Since we have a disagreement wouldn't she see that as a DJ? Or if I want certain days for custody while she wants another, and I place mine over hers as more important (especially to stay in DS's childhood home), she could see that I'm disrespecting her wishes?

Or during the course of the D, I obviously cannot be honest with her on our strategy. She has not been honest with me either, as she was secretly plotting the D while pretending to go along with me. Wouldn't that be Dishonesty?

Also, everything I'm doing if she leaves would be independent of her, as I wouldn't consult with her on stuff. Wouldn't that be IB? I just find it very hard to believe that I can protect myself during the D while not committing any LB's that would make her angry at me.

Now, looking back at our history, I think my biggest LB is Disrespectful Judgment/Annoying Habits. I have a bad habit of correcting her when she says something that is factually incorrect. Initially, when we were dating, WW was very impressed and it was a source of her admiration for me. "Wow, you are really smart and know so much." However, it gradually really became a source of irritation, so whenever *I* say something wrong now, she would correct me immediately, in a sarcastic tone. Now that I'm reading the LB book I recognize how destructive this behavior is.

WW also lacks confidence in writing and it would take her a long time to compose a simple "thank you" note or greeting card. She would ask me about spelling and I would get annoyed by it sometimes. She actually knows them, but she is not confident in these matters and always defers to me on them. (Kind of like my choosing the restaurant example I gave earlier). Now looking back I should have been more patient and sympathetic to her needs.

No, it is 1 against 1, you against your wife. The lawyer works for you and is your employee. He doesn't get a VOTE about the future of your marriage. His job is to help you drag this out so you can stay married. As his employer, it is your job to get him on board.


Wow, we were not aware that your WW is a) almost 50, and b) needs to make her own decisions! The cousin must be a GENIUS!

NO.

My suggestion would be to read about lovebusters. Nothing you cited is a lovebuster except the bad habit of correcting her. Radical honesty does not apply when it comes to affairs/divorces. Don't commit any lovebusters. It's real simple.

Yes, it's terrible. Cousin is punting and disavowing any responsibility for my WW's behavior. Even though she calls me out on everything I've supposedly done wrong (per WW's stories), and tells me to stop using words like "betrayal, unfaithful, lied, or dishonest." Frustrating talking to her, but I do think it was useful because her and MIL have a lot of influence over WW.

Unfortunately, life will not be easy for a 50 year old single woman. Your wife is getting ready to find this out the hard way.

I hope you are right... WW has always had it easy, she's an only child with older parents, so her parents doted on her. She was (and still is) very attractive so she always had a lot of attention in life.

Seems like she is planning to move out next week. We've been very cordial with each other, I've really avoided any potential LB. We're still planning to attend DS's events together this weekend and we sit together at the games. Hopefully she will see I am sincere and willing to reconcile. I've told her my only condition is she must have no contact with POSOM and we work on the marriage together...

Spycraft is a double-edged sword. Sometimes I wish I were still ignorant. But I guess it's always better to know the truth than being gaslighted.

Heard conversation WW had with MIL. She is planning with her attorney to file something this Friday or after. She said her attorney thinks my attorney and I are planning to drag things out (they are correct!) and their filing will speed things up by a couple months. She's planning to move out after this weekend, when my check clears.

It is very disheartening to hear, especially she has been playing nice with me. So I asked her directly this morning her plans and she got mad at me for not paying her entire credit card bill. I said, we agreed three weeks ago to split the credit cards up. She wants me to pay for any expenses she incurred on behalf of DS, grocery, her gas, etc. I said, no, it's no more yours than mine, especially since she diverted her paycheck since the beginning of the year to her secret bank account. She also wanted me to pay a large dental bill she incurred last year, about $2K left on $8K. I told her I'll have to check with my attorney. Then she got mad at me and said that she made money too in the past 18 years, and that her taking care of DS is "worth something." She had volunteered to pick up DS and deliver him if I have to work late. But actually DS's afterschool program can keep him until 6pm by which time I can pick him up. I didn't want to argue with her about all this so I just walked away.

Also, there's a very good chance that she will lose her job in a couple months, as her department is very likely to lose funding.

Am I committing LB's with my actions above? What should I do differently?

I would stop having these discussions with her. Let your attorney resolve these issues in the settlement.

Tell her you only talk marriage.

If she has to talk divorce talk to her lawyer.

I agree change the subject, ask her out to dinner or a movie. Anything but the specifics of a divorce.
You will get sucked into her vortex of entitlement and you have nothing to gain in there. She will continue to demand more, so just move onto something else.

Yes, this is true. It is not productive. However, trying to be positive with her has proven to be counterproductive as well. From hearing her conversations with MIL, my positive gestures were met with scorn and ridicule. She tells her the nice things I'm doing are empty gestures I should have done 18 years ago.
I have found if I leave her alone she gets curious and asked me about things. When I proactively try to be nice to her she pushes me away. Is this natural? This is what my friend who went through a bitter D told me too, that when he detached he got a lot more attention from his WW than when he was engaging her and fixing things for her.

NO, it is not counterproductive, IT IS A VERY GOOD SIGN!!! IT is better that she is combative and angry than WITHDRAWN. "Counterproductive" would be lecturing her and fighting with her about the divorce. Because when her little fantasy starts collapsing she will remember all the nice things you said and did.

OR she can remember bad things about you like fights and giving her the cold shoulder. Which do you think is the most likely to lead to a good marriage?


Wow, how did his situation work out for him?

just putting on my thinking cap and thinking out loud here. thinkthinkthinkthink How does the OM treat your wife? Does he give her the cold shoulder like your divorced friend is suggesting that you do?

Here is my suggestion. Find someone who has what you want and seek their advice. For example, your friend is divorced and went through a "bitter divorce." So he is experienced at bitter divorces. Do you desire a bitter divorce? If so, he is your go-to guy.

Many of us on this forum, however, have saved our marriages and are in happy, passionate marriages today.

TEST QUESTION: who would be the best source of advice?

Very true. This stuff is so hard.

I need to talk to my friend again whose WW came back to him after six months.

OR, you could talk to us. We have followed the program of Dr Harley, who has saved thousands of marriages. Are we boring you?

Yes, that's why I'm here.
This weekend is full of sports activities together. I will try my best to Plan A.

There's a credit card bill that's in WW's name. She thinks I should still pay for everything, even though we agreed four weeks ago (when I discovered her intent to file) that we should use our own credit cards. She stopped buying groceries for the house and she made me buy it last time. However, there were a few times when she went and bought food and things for DS, I told her I'd pay for them.

But other things like her own health insurance, gasoline (for driving around and looking for her apartment!), etc. I don't think I should pay for, right? I don't want this to be an LB but I don't think she should be a cake-eater either, and think I should just roll over and be a doormat?

I agree. Don't lovebust her, but let her pay the bills.

You should be very careful about following the advice of your friend. Why? Because the advice you are getting here is peer-reviewed. We all keep an eye on each other to make sure that the MB principles are properly applied. Your friend might think that the solution to your recovery can be obtained from a ouija board! There is a lot of conflicting and potentially harmful stuff out there. You are way better off to focus on Dr. Harley's proven approach.

When I talk to WW about various non-relationship issues, for example my son's team and coaching, my WW treats me very disrespectfully. The other parents on the team actually respect me a great deal about my thoughts on the team. I think this behavior has gradually worsened over the past few years, to the point that she talks to me in the same tone as she talks to DS.

How should I address this issue without it being an LB?