All through this thread, I have had the impression that you are mixing MB methods with those from somewhere else, and this confirms it. I can't remember now; did you come here from another site?

There is a strategy, which you are perfectly entitled to follow, which involves concepts such as not rolling over to a WW (and perhaps even to a non-W wife), standing your ground, manning up, dispensing tough love, not being a nice guy and others along those lines.

In Plan A, those sentiments must go out of the window. in fact, they don't belong in a Marriage Builders marriage at all.

It's not that MB teaches the opposite: yes roll over; yes concede ground at every opportunity; yes be a wuss, yes be a doormat. Rather, it says that if you want your wife to be in love with you, you need to make love bank deposits, and you need to not make withdrawals.

In Plan A, where that strategy is critical, you need to make deposits as much as possible, if you want to stand a chance of having her come back to you when her affair ends. So, while you should not do things that make you feel resentful (because this is destructive to your feelings in the longer term), you should take (and create) opportunities to make deposits whenever possible.

Therefore, while you should not do a chore that makes you feel resentful, if you do not feel resentful you should also consider whether doing that chore has the potential to make deposits.

Saying "no" has nothing to do with becoming a more attractive man in the long run. The very language that you are using here lets me know that you are adopting a philosophy that is popular on men's websites, and on marriage sites where men advise other men facing affairs, but the trouble is, it is not based on Dr Harley's extensive research with marriages. It's not based on anything except common-sense and logic, and the problem with common sense is that it is frequently wrong, and not very sensible. Our common sense gets us into the stinky marriages that most of us have lived in. We need a strategy wth a proven track record of success in order to turn our marriages around.

You can take the "stand my ground" "don't be a doormat" approach if you like, but I can only say that you seemed to stand your ground quite successfully for most of your marriage, and it did not make your wife love you.

You need to pick. If you intend to do Plan A, then the mantra is simple: make love bank deposits, and avoid love bank withdrawals. However, don't do anything that aides her affair, and don't do anything that makes you feel unhappy of resentful. If she asks for your help with something, and giving it would make you feel resentful, see if there is something else you can do for her, perhaps to give her more time so that she can do the job herself. Try not to simply say "no", and never tell her that she should do it - in Plan A or at any other time. That is just disrespectful.

If you have any understanding of MB at all, I should have thought the answer as to whether you help her move out is obvious; of course you do not. You don't help her to leave you, even if that would make her ecstatic. You don't help her do things that are bad for your marriage. You don't help her to have an affair!

So saying "no" translates into a love bank deposit?

Implying that you think the request is unreasonable would also be a lovebuster.

livingwell, telling her to do it herself is a huge lovebuster. I agree he should not allow her to push him around but that doesn't have to be conveyed in the form of a lovebuster. He can politely decline without telling her to "do it yourself."

No, I have taken the reverse for most of my marriage. I think starting after the first EA episode, I have been walking on eggshells. I usually back down from my WW and avoided conflict. Very rarely do we actually get into a verbal argument. I usually just stop saying anything.

I want to continue to do the Plan A approach but it has been discouraging up to now. The gestures are being met with cold indifference and belittlement, and I get that most of it is because she's still in constant contact with POSOM. Unfortunately I lost most ways of tracking her now, especially after she moves out. She has figured out how to go deeper underground, using her work computers to do things.

Now we are getting into the mechanics of the D. It is true I will let the lawyers handle it, but I can see the resentment in WW when I say it. I can't seem to find a break anywhere.

This is a very difficult balance to strike. When I was trying to please her and engage her, she told me that I need to "be a man" and leave her alone. So from there I interpret that I was coming across as too needy. I have been pleasant and tried to pick myself up to be positive and pleasant. However, I have been greeted with her cold shoulder at every turn.

Part of this is she is trying to prove to herself and her Enablers that she doesn't NEED me around. But another big part of it is she is still actively talking/plotting with POSOM.

And yes, you will be treated with the cold shoulder at every turn. But you should be persistent without being obnoxious. She will start warming up the longer you do this.


That is right. But if you give her the cold shoulder - "space" - then that will validate her narrative that you don't care. You need to be warm and inviting. Ask her out occasionally and tell her how much you love her and miss her.

In all the efforts to clarify comments made by "WestCoast," another issue slipped by several pages ago.

The comment was made to change the locks on the house and change the code to the garage so WW could not get in when he was not home.

His response was to say that DS needed access to the house. Then the discussion went to disrespectful outbursts, etc, so I want to address this and REMIND "West" that he can always get a new key for DS....

The locks needs to be changed. If WW wants a life apart from him, that is what she should have!

Yes, DS can have a new key but he is 11. In effect, WW will manipulate him to use that key to get in, rendering changing the locks moot.

Yes!!!

Can this be added to the notable posts thread?

Here is a thought. I put an alarm on the house (very simple, just doors, cheap). Then an app on my iPhone that disarms. Set the alarm when you leave the house and give your son instructions that he should call you before using his key if you are out. You do not give him the code to disarm, you disarm from where you are using the app. If he forgets and enters, you will get a call from the alarm company and can just disarm.

If you want a belt and braces, go for an external camera too. Mine hangs from the garage and points towards the kitchen door. If you think DS might arrive with WW, you can log on and take a look.

Emotional dishonesty and conflict avoidance are both unattractive, thus will continue to repel your wife. (Doormat) The goal is to share your discomfort about her request/demand, without going to the other extreme of insensitivity and disrespectfully judging.

Either spouse should be able to express their desires for anything, even for creme brule on top of the Eiffel Tower if they want. The trick is to refrain from judging the desire as unreasonable, not to shut someone's desires down, and to not capitulate either. Nobody wants to feel shut down or bad for asking.

In order to keep from lovebusting, you will need to focus on some canned statements which express care but emotional honesty. One example is to respectfully say that you wouldn't feel good about it, how about...?

On D-Day, when I confronted WW about the A, she was ready to quit. She wanted to separate right then and there. She stopped but her plan was simmering, unbeknownst to me at that time continually aided by POSOM. (She had strategized with him "steps" in their emails which I had uncovered.)

When I tried to discuss discomfort about request/demands from her, she always says, "Well, isn't that more reason we shouldn't be together?" She persists in this line of thought and persuaded her Enabler friends that it's better for us to get D as the marriage was not good anyway, denying any of the mostly good times we had.

Again, he is 11 years old. Doing these things will put him in conflict with WW with that, even if he complies. He's already confused and sad enough. I don't want to weigh him down with more conflict and having to choose sides. WW can easily manipulate him to open the door or pretend she is not there.

So either you can appease while in Plan A or you can deny the requests. However, if you are wanting to deny requests, make sure that you don't judge her for requesting. We fall in love bacause our partner does stuff for us. They meet needs. It's difficult to keep meeting needs in the face of such disrespect and betrayal. I get it. Please don't take everything she says at face value. It is not being a man for you to abandon her. She will realize, when her soulmate shmoopie falls short, that you never quit and were the true man.

This whole idea of "don't do anything for a woman that she could do herself", like some other sites tout is baloney. My husband does stuff like that and it endears me to him. If he placates to avoid expressing disagreement, I am repulsed.
It's about being intentional with your plan.

In Plan A, you can choose to accommodate some things which you wouldn't necessarily, until she is out of the fog. Waywards are uber self centered.

The one thing I keep worrying about is whether any Plan A I do at this time will have an impact on her, as she is still in touch with POSOM. I am hoping that being away from me will help break that Fog, but I am not so sure. Exposure was 3 months ago and since then she has batten down the hatches and toughened her resolve to leave me. I can appreciate her self-centeredness when she talks to me, in her tone and attitude. It is that same tone and look in her eyes that tipped me off to initially investigate her emails and finding the evidence.

It's so hard because there are so many conflicting opinions online and also from friends and others I've talked to. I want to believe the MB way but WW has rejected my approach since D-Day. What also hurts is everyone espousing their own tried-and-true method disparages everyone else's approach and whacks me with a 2X4 for even considering another method. I'm just trying to gather information to see the pros and cons of every approach to this tough problem.

You need to tell your son the truth. That you are doing this because you feel uncomfortable at the thought of his mother in the house. You do not want him to be stuck in the middle of this and the solution is not to give him the code. That way he cannot give it to her as he does not have it.

Tell him that if he finds this stressful, you will think of something else. There are always other solutions such as a neighbour or a temporary house sitter.

If you need help setting up a motion activated webcam, let me know and I will post in the other forum. It is easy to do yourself, they run over wireless.

DS already knows the truth, he was Exposed to the A on Day One. My WW has not moved out yet so this is only a theoretical problem at this point. My hope is once she moves out, cold reality will stare her in the eyes and she will rethink Recovery. She has already been hit with many obstacles to moving out, even with my help. She is not the most decisive person. Finding the apartment, choosing furniture, getting cash in her account, figuring out her CC situation, has delayed it many weeks already. Part of me wants to move her out faster, part of me is afraid of that.

Right now WW has complete access to the house as she is not "separated" yet legally. Once she does move out, I can change the locks but she can easily get a locksmith to change it back, as we will not be divorced for at least six months minimum. I've already backed up all of the critical documents to the cloud so I should be protected. The thought was to prevent WW from cake-eating by being able to come and go as she pleases from my house. Some forum posters encourage me to let her in at least when I'm there to promote Plan A, and help her with various hardships she may face living in a dumpy apartment. While others suggest not to let her have the comforts of it.

You can get a DropCam by Nest for like $150 and they run all the time. They have an app for your smartphone. They are not the bulkiest looking thing but they do require wired power supply.

However, they might require some extra payment to record constantly, since it does not actually record. Its more like you check on it (say, when you 11y/o is using the key to get in the house).

What does he do now when no one is home after school?