Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 36 of 43 1 2 34 35 36 37 38 42 43
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by LostOnLeftCoast
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Plan A or give up.

Thanks. Care to be more specific?

There is nothing to be more specific about. You plan A to try and save your marriage or give up. You have to decide.

Now you have been doing plan A. I assume you want to continue to plan A.

So get your WW a nice card and take her to a nice restaurant for dinner. If you both are off make it a day trip. Lots of quality us alone time.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by TheRoad
There is nothing to be more specific about. You plan A to try and save your marriage or give up. You have to decide.

Now you have been doing plan A. I assume you want to continue to plan A.

So get your WW a nice card and take her to a nice restaurant for dinner. If you both are off make it a day trip. Lots of quality us alone time.

We are spending most of our free time as family time together with our son. We eat all meals together and go out together. She does not want to go out without our S. Despite the fact that she made some unreasonable demands in her latest divorce filing, including that I pay rent to her for my house which is held in my name as my separate property (!?), I am still trying to Plan A her.

Hopefully she will still be open to these in a few weeks after she moves out....


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by LostOnLeftCoast
Originally Posted by TheRoad
There is nothing to be more specific about. You plan A to try and save your marriage or give up. You have to decide.

Now you have been doing plan A. I assume you want to continue to plan A.

So get your WW a nice card and take her to a nice restaurant for dinner. If you both are off make it a day trip. Lots of quality us alone time.

We are spending most of our free time as family time together with our son. We eat all meals together and go out together. She does not want to go out without our S. Despite the fact that she made some unreasonable demands in her latest divorce filing, including that I pay rent to her for my house which is held in my name as my separate property (!?), I am still trying to Plan A her.

Hopefully she will still be open to these in a few weeks after she moves out....

Your WW is digging in her heels. So just keep doing the best you can. Family time is not the same as UA time. Though it is a good tactic to use when plan A'ing. The reason is when she does leave there will be many happy family memories fresh in her mind.

So when she does move out and when it becomes time to go plan B you created a void for WW. She will miss her family during her lucid moments. A void that the OM will not be able to fill. Hopefully the WW wakes up and realizes what she threw away. Then she seeks recovery.

I don't remember but I hope you did a full all out exposure.

Last edited by TheRoad; 03/19/16 09:42 AM.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,708
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,708
If she likes flowers, give/send her a nice bouquet with a note like:
Thinking of you on our Anniversary.
~Your first name







Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by TheRoad
So when she does move out and when it becomes time to go plan B you created a void for WW. She will miss her family during her lucid moments. A void that the OM will not be able to fill. Hopefully the WW wakes up and realizes what she threw away. Then she seeks recovery.

I don't remember but I hope you did a full all out exposure.

Yes, it's interesting she still eagerly plans our family time together. Although she's playing hardball legally for the Divorce. We still spend most of our free time together and she will come out to dinner with us when invited.

Yes, I did a full exposure. Pretty much everyone that she is close with has been contacted, as well as OM's family and friends. WW still has not talked to most of her friends about this, telling them "need some time to take care of things, will talk to them in a couple weeks." One of her best friends has been trying to plan a trip with her but she rebuffed her, she sent her an Oprah book to remind her of things... Sigh.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
We spent the whole weekend together, shared every meal, and had a lot of fun at DS's ballgames. In WW's conversations with MIL she actually spoke of me nicely and respectfully for a change, and praised several things I did over the weekend.

At a restaurant we went for dinner, the owner chatted us up. WW made a comment afterwards that we should go back there often to support that restaurant. I'm trying to reconcile her comment with the fact that she's filed D and moving out??? How will we share meals in the future? Of course I kept my mouth shut, just thinking to myself.

Today we got hit by a request for stipulation by her L to retroactively backdate almost a month for child and spousal support. She's trying to collect support WHILE she is still living with me?!? How do I reconcile the any progress I may have made with WW with these strong arm tactics? I don't mention anything to WW but my L answered back with a firm rejection. They threaten to go to court if we reject it.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by LostOnLeftCoast
We spent the whole weekend together, shared every meal, and had a lot of fun at DS's ballgames. In WW's conversations with MIL she actually spoke of me nicely and respectfully for a change, and praised several things I did over the weekend.

At a restaurant we went for dinner, the owner chatted us up. WW made a comment afterwards that we should go back there often to support that restaurant. I'm trying to reconcile her comment with the fact that she's filed D and moving out??? How will we share meals in the future? Of course I kept my mouth shut, just thinking to myself.

Today we got hit by a request for stipulation by her L to retroactively backdate almost a month for child and spousal support. She's trying to collect support WHILE she is still living with me?!? How do I reconcile the any progress I may have made with WW with these strong arm tactics? I don't mention anything to WW but my L answered back with a firm rejection. They threaten to go to court if we reject it.

Those statements by the WW show that your plan A is making conflicts in her mind. Which is good for she is liking the new you and you are making her want to have more good times with you. This is how plan A works. She is starting to come around to what she will be giving up. Starting to is not yet all the way there to where she stops the divorce and starts recovery.

Do not let her lawyer contact you. For all matters he has to go through your lawyer. You did wise to not mention this contact from her lawyer to your WW. Nothing will kill all the good work done by starting divorce talks with your WW.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Those statements by the WW show that your plan A is making conflicts in her mind. Which is good for she is liking the new you and you are making her want to have more good times with you. This is how plan A works. She is starting to come around to what she will be giving up. Starting to is not yet all the way there to where she stops the divorce and starts recovery.

Do not let her lawyer contact you. For all matters he has to go through your lawyer. You did wise to not mention this contact from her lawyer to your WW. Nothing will kill all the good work done by starting divorce talks with your WW.

No, her attorney goes through my L for everything (except once, her L replied on an email that I was cc:'ed, using it as an excuse to send me the stipulations directly. My L warned them about that.). In any case, it's terrible. No, I don't talk to WW about any of this at all.

Another MB member suggested privately that I talk to WW about what she REALLY wants from life and in a relationship. Do you think it's wise at this point? Because I thought in Plan A, I should avoid all talk about MR and just work on being pleasant toward WW and be the best husband I can?

It's been many weeks since I last had a talk with her about MR. I was going to follow Melody Lane's suggestion and wait until she leaves to talk to her about it. With her L's current tactic, if we don't agree on a settlement it may be a month before she moves out... What should I do??? Stall and keep her here, or agree and have her move out (hopefully speed up her feeling what it's like to be out there all on her own?)

As it is I'm going to the warehouse store tonight to pick up stuff for her and our DS...

Last edited by LostOnLeftCoast; 03/21/16 05:28 PM.

Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by LostOnLeftCoast
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Those statements by the WW show that your plan A is making conflicts in her mind. Which is good for she is liking the new you and you are making her want to have more good times with you. This is how plan A works. She is starting to come around to what she will be giving up. Starting to is not yet all the way there to where she stops the divorce and starts recovery.

Do not let her lawyer contact you. For all matters he has to go through your lawyer. You did wise to not mention this contact from her lawyer to your WW. Nothing will kill all the good work done by starting divorce talks with your WW.

No, her attorney goes through my L for everything (except once, her L replied on an email that I was cc:'ed, using it as an excuse to send me the stipulations directly. My L warned them about that.). In any case, it's terrible. No, I don't talk to WW about any of this at all.

Another MB member suggested privately that I talk to WW about what she REALLY wants from life and in a relationship. Do you think it's wise at this point? Because I thought in Plan A, I should avoid all talk about MR and just work on being pleasant toward WW and be the best husband I can?

It's been many weeks since I last had a talk with her about MR. I was going to follow Melody Lane's suggestion and wait until she leaves to talk to her about it. With her L's current tactic, if we don't agree on a settlement it may be a month before she moves out... What should I do??? Stall and keep her here, or agree and have her move out (hopefully speed up her feeling what it's like to be out there all on her own?)

As it is I'm going to the warehouse store tonight to pick up stuff for her and our DS...

Red good

For plan A is about making the WW want you and the marriage.

Following melody's advice is usually a good idea.

Blue bad

You can never educate/teach the WW back into the marriage.

Last edited by TheRoad; 03/22/16 05:53 AM.
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Red good

For plan A is about making the WW want you and the marriage.

Following melody's advice is usually a good idea.

Blue bad

You can never educate/teach the WW back into the marriage.

Got it. He was saying not to "educate/teach" the WW, but just ask her to say what's on her mind and spew everything out. Ask her what she wants out of life, marriage, etc. even if it's without me. But I find it very hard in practical terms to have any type of discussion about R without sounding or appearing judgmental? I'm sure even non-verbally it is hard for me not to react to certain things WW might say. I think you are right in that, it will just antagonize WW.

Last edited by LostOnLeftCoast; 03/22/16 10:05 AM.

Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by LostOnLeftCoast
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Red good

For plan A is about making the WW want you and the marriage.

Following melody's advice is usually a good idea.

Blue bad

You can never educate/teach the WW back into the marriage.

Got it. He was saying not to "educate/teach" the WW, but just ask her to say what's on her mind and spew everything out. Ask her what she wants out of life, marriage, etc. even if it's without me. But I find it very hard in practical terms to have any type of discussion about R without sounding or appearing judgmental? I'm sure even non-verbally it is hard for me not to react to certain things WW might say. I think you are right in that, it will just antagonize WW.

I would not talk about recovery or relationships. That is only going to make WW want to defend her affair and continue to want to divorce you. Plan A is to get the WW to end her affair so recovery can start.

Stop putting the cart in front of the horse.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Nope, I didn't take that advice and I refrained from talking about R or M.
Today my email box was bombed by my L. They were all these paperwork going back and forth between her L and my L. The L's themselves were very antagonistic toward each other, "Now if you would read my email..." and accusing each other of unprofessional behavior, etc. It's terrible.
Plus WW is trying to claim everything AND the kitchen sink. I feel terrible. This is the woman I married 18 years ago and on D-Day told me she didn't want "my money" and she just want to be "free." WTF! The greed just came right out.
Taking a break from Plan A today, just watching TV to get my mind off her greediness!!!


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Countless WW have said they just want out and they have no designs on their BH's money.

Until people and or reality gets their ear.

Last edited by TheRoad; 03/23/16 04:56 AM.
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Countless WW have said they just want out and they have no designs on their BH's money.

Until people and or reality gets their ear.

Not people, lawyers.

It's terrible. She essentially gets one out of my two paychecks a month. My L said it will probably step down 10-15% when D is finalized. The judge >may< make her go find a full-time job, but her additional earning will only reduce my spousal maintenance payments (alimony) by 50 cents for every additional dollar she makes. That's what I get for living in such a Liberal state.

Honestly, there's really no financial incentive for her to try to reconcile. She will get a big chunk of my paycheck, she gets to live in an apartment, she gets DS half the time, and she gets half of the assets I built up over the past 18 years.

I'm so discouraged. mad


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
I'm continuing to do Plan A as best I can under the circumstances. I have been preparing dinner and cleaning up the dishes, and shuttle my DS to his sporting events whenever I can. However, WW is full of anger (my L is not giving her L what they want, but holding tough on positions). She is still in the house until she can get the temporary support agreements done.

She makes a lot of remarks belittling me, and wants various things "her way" only and criticizing things that are not perfect. She seems to be trying to provoke me into arguments so she can feel good about leaving me. She asked me about the legal settlement and I said the L's are handling it now. How should I handle these events without Lovebusting? I have been avoiding conflict with her when she makes these comments. I just walk out of the room to do something else.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 577
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 577
You are doing the best you can in that situation, IMO. When an adulterer is bent on divorce, they will push your buttons just because.
Develop that thick skin, and avoid the conflict. Change the subject is sometimes an effective tactic.

The financial situation will improve eventually, but you will have short term pain depending on the duration of alimony(at least it is tax deductible). Financially, it is better to pay alimony than child support.
The rule is waywards will blow through all the money in a few years after the divorce especially if still in the affair. (my ex did)

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Apparently her L and her are playing some kind of game. They are not responding to my L's proposal for temporary support agreement, even though all of their issues have been addressed... Not sure what this means?

In terms of Plan A, we still spend a lot of family time together. Maybe even more than before D-Day, for the three of us. She treats me very coldly, and ignores what I say or is sarcastic toward me. Even prior to D-Day, she used to do that too when I'm driving and try to make conversation, she would ignore me until I ask her about something. She will say "I'm not interested in that" in a very rude manner. Now that I'm thinking about it, she's been doing this for the last couple years.

I then tend to try to steer the conversation pleasantly around my son's activities, how he's doing in school, etc. But inside I'm obviously very hurt and upset by this. Can you suggest a way for me to deal with this while doing Plan A? I try to deflect her anger and animosity but it eats me up inside.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
LLC,

I'd say it's time to kick your Plan A into a higher gear. What can you do to really start making some more love bank deposits? And who else can be told about this affair?

A prickly wife is typical of a WW and also of many wives in withdrawal/conflict. She doesn't want you to approach her because you might start changing her feelings for you. You have to push through the quills and win her heart.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,786
Likes: 1
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,786
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by LostOnLeftCoast
Apparently her L and her are playing some kind of game. They are not responding to my L's proposal for temporary support agreement, even though all of their issues have been addressed... Not sure what this means?

In terms of Plan A, we still spend a lot of family time together. Maybe even more than before D-Day, for the three of us. She treats me very coldly, and ignores what I say or is sarcastic toward me. Even prior to D-Day, she used to do that too when I'm driving and try to make conversation, she would ignore me until I ask her about something. She will say "I'm not interested in that" in a very rude manner. Now that I'm thinking about it, she's been doing this for the last couple years.

I then tend to try to steer the conversation pleasantly around my son's activities, how he's doing in school, etc. But inside I'm obviously very hurt and upset by this. Can you suggest a way for me to deal with this while doing Plan A? I try to deflect her anger and animosity but it eats me up inside.


You can tell her that something upsets you. A quick 'ouch that hurt' and then a change of subject is perfectly acceptable when she makes a nasty remark. But rather than making her antagonistic by asking her questions, you could either remain silent or you could talk about something that interests her.

What subjects other than your son does she enjoy talking about?


3 adult children
Divorced - he was a serial adulterer
Now remarried, thank you MB
(formerly lied_to_again)
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by markos
LLC,

I'd say it's time to kick your Plan A into a higher gear. What can you do to really start making some more love bank deposits? And who else can be told about this affair?

A prickly wife is typical of a WW and also of many wives in withdrawal/conflict. She doesn't want you to approach her because you might start changing her feelings for you. You have to push through the quills and win her heart.

I definitely get the feeling that she in conflict and probably depressed. She puts up a strong face in front of me, like I don't care, etc. I heard her tell a story to my MIL about a 90-year old lady who told her she was fine after she moved out from Indiana, all by herself and was able to live successfully on her own and found a man. She inferred that that lady was divorced, etc. and how that story gave her a big boost. I was thinking, hmm.. you're 47 and you have an 11 year old son, the circumstances are very different... But of course I didn't say anything.

I feel like she wants to "prove a point" and that she can be out on her own, and this is all retribution for blowing up her EA. I've already exposed to everyone we know together, she has already shut herself off from all of them. So I don't think any further exposure is going to accomplish anything.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Page 36 of 43 1 2 34 35 36 37 38 42 43

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 31 guests, and 52 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Overcomer4513, caraduke, Convict20, GTNY, Avianna
71,737 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,550
Posts2,322,811
Members71,737
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5