It feels like progress, but I am still unsure.

On one hand, the actions listed above were previously out of the question in her mind.

But... apparently "I will no longer have independent behaviors", and "mutual decision making" does not yet include cutting off contact with the OM.
The replies to that are... "Feelings just don't dissolve instantly"

I have told her I am hurt deeply, physically and emotionally drained, and find it difficult to spend more emotional energy, while knowing she is still in contact with the OM.

She seems more comfortable when she initiates the subject of the affair, but starts to get upset when I initiate the subject or try to expand on something she has said about it.

She says her.. "pain"... lasted years, while mine has only been for a couple months and refuses to remember that I tried many times to find out what was wrong for a long time.

When I state that contact must cease with the OM, and that it involves a "no contact" letter that we write together to accomplish closure, and then ask if she understands, I get in return... "I know where you are coming from".
But, no commitment to actually do it.

(She also refuses to remove a necklace that he bought for her. An "in your face" symbol that she knows hurts those who see it)

I do know the OM closed his personal FB account, and his wife has told me he is seeing a therapist.
That the OM has told his spouse that they will work more at their own recovery.

It has been just under 2 months since I found out, and 1 month since the exposure.

My questions are...

She is the one who dictates what times and for how long we will see each other, gets upset and shuts down quickly when I try talking with her honestly, and as mentioned, currently refuses to end contact with the OM.

It has not happened yet... But, with her apparently putting in effort that was nearly inconceivable a while ago, and at the same time refusing to immediately end contact with the OM, it feels a bit like the very early stages of a "Plan C".


I do believe we will spend time together nearly every day, but she is still living in her mothers home.

Selling our house has been our plan for quite a long time, and she does not want to move back to this home.
But, when I say wherever our home may be does not matter to me, only she does.... she says "then let's get it sold".

It's like a yo-yo emotionally, sometimes even in the same conversation.
I am struggling as to what to do next.


According to the advice, can Plan A continue without an immediate commitment to end contact with the OM ?

(I have read on the site that a BH is recommended to wait 6 months to two years for significant progress)

Has the time since discovery and exposure been too short to expect that to happen so soon?

She has said she wants me to slow down and not talk of the affair as much.

Can plan A continue with periods of not talking of ending contact with the OM, and/ or periods of not talking at all?

(I have read on the site that not making the WW upset is essential, but also that the continued demand to end contact is equally essential)

* Again the OM is half a world away, so it is an online emotional affair at this point.


She has also said a couple times that I am the one causing his and his family embarrassment (not the lying, cheating OM in the first place).

He has also told her and she believes that he has moved out of his home.

I know both of these to be untrue.

I would like to forcefully and bluntly state both of these facts, but is that recommended?


Thanks again to all.

My wife kept a gold chain with a small gold heart from the OM She wore it for a few years before she took it off.

Then after she finally took it off it would reappear every about every three years over twenty five years. Until the last time it appeared. I finally taped it to a rock drove with wife to the ocean and threw it in.

Your wife is hoping he will divorce his wife for her. That is the plan here and why she is dragging this out. I would tell your wife the truth and have the OM's wife call her and bring her up to speed.

You should be telling the OM's wife everything you know about this. Did you contact the OM's parents?

I think that you have to tread more carefully than some BHs in Plan A because you wife is not living with you. She left you nearly a year ago, and has made no commitment to returning to the marriage. Therefore, when you tell her that contact with OM is terribly upsetting to you, and so on, this does not have the same moral force as if she were living with you and making the pretence of continuing in the marriage.

What you can do, if exposure is complete and there is no more to do on that front, is invite your wife out on dates several times a week. You need to court her back to the marriage the way you courted her into marriage in the first place - and that was not by inviting her round to your house and focusing on domestic issues.

I don't know why you don't take her at her word and sell the house. Moving after an affair has taken place has a very cathartic effect on recovery, even when the affair took place across continents and not in the house, as in your case.

Do not make unilateral decision about selling, however. You should never much such decisions in marriage, and should always use The Policy of Joint Agreement. To do this, you would first get her agreement to the principle of selling the house, making it clear that you see the new home as a home for both of you, and that you value her input at every stage.

You would then agree on how much to spend sprucing up the house for sale, and you would look at new homes together. Even if she said she could not move in with you yet, because she has not made up her mind to return to you, if you could get the agreement in principle that if she returns, you will live in a new home together, you could use finding that new home as a way to woo your wife back. You'd be spending time on undivided attention when you look at new homes together, and depositing love bank units when you show her how much you want her to be happy with the eventual choice.

She doesn't want to go back to you where you are (though I understand that the home is not the issue - OM is the issue), and you could help drive forward a change and reconciliation if you focused on a new future for you both.

I do think you would benefit enormously from personal advice from Dr Harley. Your case is somewhat non-standard, with OM living on a different continent (and still the affair does not end), and your wife having moved out, and moved on, before you discovered the existence of the affair.

You will get free advice from Dr Harley if you write to him care of the radio show. You can appear as a guest on the show, or you can simply have your email addressed without appearing.

I haven't read through everything you wrote on your exposure, and I wrote my post in the expectation that you had done everything possible on this front.

You need to follow MelodyLane's advice to the letter. Proper exposure is the single most important step you can take to bring about the end of this affair. If you can get your wife to realise that this man will never be there for her - by making her confront him and ask why he is still living with his wife - and if you can get his parents to show him how shocked they are that he would break up another person's marriage, you could bring this to a close very quickly.

How thorough has your exposure been?

The exposure was all on FB and consisted of..

OM's wife -
(which I am still in contact with)

OM's Father -
Initial exposure and included in a recent follow up to say his son is still in contact with her.
(He did not contact me back but did remove my friend request)

OM's Sister -
(whom oddly enough has kept me as a FB friend even after the second follow up message)

OM Friends -
7 of them, and in turn they spread it to at least three more.
This includes 3 of his local closest friends, and 3 whom have provided him working opportunities.
(The same 3 they lied about providing the trips)

* Only a few of them have replied to me, but all have shown indication that they have seen them. Mainly by first accepting, and then reversing the friend requests.


On my and wife's side, many, many people know.
Including both of our families and many friends.

The OM's wife is very reluctant to email or call my wife.
She did send her one message, but has since told me it has not been marked as read.

The OM's wife is a mixed benefit.
She does share information, but is reluctant to perform exposure
(even though she knows I have already contacted several of his friends)
She also seems to often tell her husband when we have communicated... which he in turn tells my wife and it comes back to me in the form of her being upset.

Wy wife is "convinced" that the OM is the one telling the truth and that his wife is lying about their own recovery.

She denies that he still lives at home, that he still sleeps with his wife, that he is not seeing a therapist, that there is still hope he will leave his wife and children, abandon his life and relocate half way around the world.

It's almost like talking to a crazy person.

"My wife is "convinced" that the OM is the one telling the truth and that his wife is lying about their own recovery."

I should mention that her belief bounces back and forth between being convinced that he is the one telling the truth to stating that perhaps he is a liar.

Quick question...

I have found out there are others whom have sent her support messages from whom I did not think or consider exposing to.

They have done so because word spread that "something is wrong" but do not know what it is.

Although it has been a month since the initial exposure, do I contact these individuals and fill them in as I did with the others?

Or, is that considered a "trickle exposure" and as a result cause the WW to become again upset at her BH?

How do you know that they only know "something is wrong", but do not know what it is?

How do you know they are sending support messages?

What do these messages say?

She finally checked her FB, about a month after the exposure and found "80 messages" (her words) regarding all of this.

I said, I am certain all of the messages are positive, what did they say?

Answer... "They all say they heard something is wrong, and want to know if they can help"

Again those are her words, so it could be that they do know and only phrased it in that manner.

I did see two emails from people specifically stating they do not know what it is, but heard something is wrong.

Update today:

The OM's wife sent my wife a lengthy letter explaining that he has been lying to her just as much as to everyone else. That he still sleeps in the bed, has not moved out, is seeing a therapist, had been stealing his family's mortgage money to pay for their trips...etc

She drove home the fact that they have been living in a fantasy and real life is different than the vacations and online messages they have created around themselves.
That he will not be moving away or leaving his children.


My wife copied the letter, sent it back to him, and included this at the top...


<< I....I don't know what to say or believe.
It's probably in everyone's best interest if I send your things either back to you or to your sister or parents in Canada.


If it was all lies and fantasy..thank you for an experience I will always remember. >>


This all happened in the last 2 hours and my wife does not know I have seen all of this.

what is my next step?
Do I see or talk to her today?
Do I let her think for a while?


This seems big, and I would like to take full advantage of it.


Edit:
I am almost certain that he will try to sweet talk his way out of it. Saying it is actually his wife who is lying.
I feel I need to do something before that happens, and she possibly falls for it again.


* I'm pretty sure I should also send her reply to the OM's wife.

A short while ago she called me.

We joked for a while about a few other subjects, then she paused for a moment and said... "You don't have to worry anymore. I will not be seeing or talking to him again".

But, that was followed calmly by... "I don't want to be with anyone, you or him"

I then stopped by her work, she took a break and said the same thing. I told her again she is the love of my life. Offered to take her out after work (which she said... "No, but thank you")

Before returning to work, she said we would talk later.

I know that inside she must be a emotional and I am not sure what to think.

That is where is stands as of this moment.

Why doesn't OMW simply send your wife a picture of her husband in her bed, asleep? Of her husband at breakfast in his jammies?

She does not seem to be very forceful in telling your wife to get her tail out of her marriage. She seems to be pleading with your wife to leave him alone. Why is she putting up with her husband telling your wife that he does not live there? Why doesn't she demand that her husband sends your wife an NC letter, if he wants to stay in his home?

I can't understand why she's being so gentle about this.

On your part, you could hire a PI online to watch their house for a day or two, and prove to your wife that he is living there. We've had people do this from another continent before.

There is so much more you could do.

I wrote you a long post about selling your house. You didn't respond to it.

The house is definitely going up for sale.
It has been the plan before I even discovered what was happening.

* and we are both in agreement on that point.

I agree that the OM's spouse is being too gentle.
I have encouraged her several times to be more forceful and in fact to go off on my wife in a phone call. She chose instead to write a letter through email.

It does however seem to have had an effect, considering what my wife wrote back to him and then told me that she will no longer be speaking to him.

My immediate dilemma is what to do if we do not end up talking later today/ tomorrow.

Do I hold and hope she does call at some point?
Or, try to initiate another conversation?

My heart tells me to try and talk to her... constantly.
My head says that might not be such a good idea.

(When I get stuck like this I often send her a text message saying how much I love her)

Also, do I send the note in which she sent the OM, to the OM's wife?

If the other BS uses my wife's exact words to her husband, it will likely come back to me and my WW will know I still have access.

Still unsure if there is anything I can/ must do before he possibly tries to again convince her that his wife is the one not telling the truth.

* I will suggest to the other BS to take/send the photo in bed.
I'm guessing I would have to first explain the effect her letter had.

I explained the letter to the OM's spouse... but she already knew.

The OM's spouse has told me he is seeing the no contact as very much permanent.

Apparently there were additional messages, not through email, that more forcefully described no contact as permanent.

she said he was angry and has told her that my wife is deleting him as a contact and would not be speaking to him again, followed by... 'Well, you and he have won."


My wife told me again today that she knows he had been lying to her all along.


The scary part now is that within the last 24 hours she has started saying she does not want anyone. That although she knows he was lying the whole time that he made her "feel" loved.

I told her lies are not love.

She said it was how she felt .. and that I "just don't get it".

The last thing said between us today was my saying ... "I have learned and understand. That she will be a princess forever. Never to feel lonely or not loved. Reaffirmed every second."


My feeling now is that I once agin hold, let her think and recover for a while... and hope she calls in the next couple/ few days.

The other thing that I recommended, to which you did not respond, was to write to Dr Harley at the radio show.

MB is an action-based programme, and the forum advice focuses on actions you can take. Posters don't tend to get a good response to long, blog-like, reflective posts that do not focus on the specific steps we recommend you to take.

You need to know from Dr Harley whether there is anything more you can do in Plan A, with a wife who moved out nearly a year ago.