ginger, you are an extremely articulate person and are very capable of explaining to the lawyer why Dr. Harley recommends you communicate this way. You have given your husband a method of communication all this time. You can prove this.

Have you spoken to Dr. Harley? I forgot. If so and the other lawyer does end up filing a motion, be sure to let the judge know that your counselor has recommended this approach. You are, in fact, communicating with your STBXH. Why should it matter if he doesn't like how you communicate? The key is going to be proving that your position is reasonable, and a the advice of a world-renowned psychologist is sure to have some weight in that regard. Does your lawyer know the judge in your case? Some judges are morons, so you do need to be careful. I don't have as much faith in the justice system as some of the others on here.

You're right Melody. I sort of panicked when I got that email. After I typed that here, I replied to my lawyer, explaining why I insist on continuing to use the IM, what I think this rant was about (when I told him, through the IM, that he wouldn't be seeing the kids until we had an agreement in writing, he thought that was the IM rather than me, and he told the kids he was trying to contact me and trying to pick them up the whole time. He sees that whole thing as a lack of communication from me, but that's not what happened.)

Nmwb77 - I have not spoken with Dr H. And yes my lawyer knows the judge, and yes the judge tends to be of the opinion that people need to "suck it up" according to my lawyer. And he likes to say "kids are resilient" when he makes them do things that are not necessarily in their best interests. She said that this particular judge is an older man who has never had children. How he is a good choice to sit in the position of adjudicating family court is beyond me. But that's who we've got. He will not listen to reason. My lawyer is attempting to smooth things over with his lawyer, but if they decide to file a motion and take me to court, he will not likely make WH use an IM, and he will probably publicly scold me (because that's what he likes to do from his bench) and I would think it would prejudice him for when we go before him to get alimony, which we have to do because WH is not offering a reasonable amount.

If my lawyer isn't able to convince them to let this go, then I think my best course of action is to offer to communicate only through the app Piglet mentioned and go to a secret IM. I don't like the idea of lying, but I really don't want to defy a court order by going to secret IM after the judge has told me I must communicate directly with WH.

It doesn't sound like your lawyer has even tried to defend you, so that is where I would begin.

I haven't heard from her today. I know that she did tell his lawyer that I will only communicate via IM, but that was before the rant.

I never heard anything further regarding him "making" me communicate directly. There was an incident when I was late getting the kids to the meeting point due to an interstate closure, I sent word through my IM, and he apparently has her blocked or chooses not to read anything she sends (she sent a text). Then he sent me a series of emails (which bounced to her - I don't see them). She responded to him, and she also let me know that for what it's worth, these emails are just evidence of why I need an IM. (Which was a bit tmi, but also a good reminder.)

I heard from my lawyer today - he's fighting over where to drop the kids off after his visit on Saturday. So we STILL don't have a temporary custody order, even though I started the process in February. And of course he's complaining about how much this is costing everybody because we're going through the lawyers for every little thing. Which is true, and he could put a stop to it but he won't.

My lawyer expects to have a settlement conference date in early June, when we will go before the magistrate and hopefully have a settlement and not have to go before a judge. She told me that the magistrate normally tells people that whoever is dropping off the kids takes them to the other parent. So it would be to my advantage to get this settled without the magistrate stepping in.

Honestly you guys, I hate him. I can't imagine ever having any feeling other than disgust for him. I DON'T want to communicate directly, but it would be so much easier than going through these dang lawyers all the time for everything. I just want this to all be settled. Really I just want to punch him in the nethers, but I think that feeling will subside when everything is settled. I am starting to doubt my contribution to the process and want to just get it over with in the fastest way possible.

I don't have any questions really. I just wanted to update.

I know have read somewhere on this site Dr. H recommends staying in plan B even after divorce. I've looked and can't find where I read it. Does anyone know where that is? I'd like to read about his reasoning on continuing no contact.

WH is still refusing to use IM, has blocked her phone number/emails. My lawyer told his that we heave been communicating this way the whole time and it doesn't make sense that he suddenly refuses, and his lawyer didn't know that and was going to talk to him but we never heard anything. The only reason think he has blocked my IM is that I had to send a message regarding dropoff time last week and he completely ignored it, then when he dropped the kids off my 6yo said they were waiting and waiting and WH told him that he didn't know about dropoff time but he "couldn't send mommy a message because she won't get it."

When he was running late for pickup Tuesday, he texted the 15yo to let him know. So not ok. I don't know what to do about it.

Have you listened to this?

Radio Clip on Plan B

Brainhurts - I had not listened to that one before. Thank you. Do you know if there's anything about staying in plan B after divorce?

Hi Gingerfly,

I don't know if Dr. Harley has posted anything specifically on this, but I know that Dr. Harley told me directly to stay in Plan B after divorce--that my husband has repeated shown me that he isn't safe emotionally. I am pretty sure he gives that advice to most people; although others can correct me if I am wrong. Many (most?) people on this board stay in Plan B and I don't see any reason to actually leave Plan B. Keeping in contact with a wayward, even if you are divorced, sets you back emotionally even if you are not in love with that person anymore. I felt myself getting angry and resentful just hearing his voice occasionally when my daughter skype calls him. I got her wireless headphones because of that. It has helped immensely. I used to dread those calls because even though she is in her room with the door closed and I am downstairs, sometimes if I had to go upstairs, I overheard his voice. It would make my heart instantly beat faster--like fight or flight response. Do whatever you can to avoid contact.

If you absolutely MUST, you can do the secret IM thing, but I doubt it will come to that. Just stay the course and he will eventually have to come around to the IM thing. It'll be inconvenient for awhile, but just use your IM if you need to communicate something and assume that he will not get it. Then if he is late or something, have a back up plan. That's all you can do.

Like I said before, I have peace because I am in Plan B, but I wish I hadn't gone along with my old lawyer's advice to do it secretly. I don't hear much from my IM, so I think things have died down, but it actually irks me that he thinks he is talking directly to me.

Yes he advises that betrayed spouses stay in Plan B after divorce quite often. For the same reasons he tells people to go into Plan B before divorce. Divorce doesn't change the reasons.

It seems like your entire thread is about your husbands attempts to force you out of Plan B. We have given you all the advice you need.

Thanks Piglet. I have heard WHs voice a couple of times and it does the same thing to me.

Melody, you're right. All of my recent posts have been about this. It is what I'm dealing with right now. Thanks to everyone's advice and help, I very rarely have any reason to contact my IM, so the fact that he refuses just means that I don't have to deal with him at all. But then when he was running late and texted my son, and he got upset at being put in the middle, I started rethinking the reasons I am doing this. Because like probably every parent I would rather be the one hurt than to see my child be hurt. And I was second guessing whether staying in plan B after divorce is necessary and recommended, and if the reasons are the same (self protection and healing). I appreciate the guidance and input.

GF, only you can decide if Plan B is necessary after divorce. For many, being in direct contact with a wayward is extremely stressful.

Are you now divorced?

Almost. We go before the magistrate in a few weeks, and that should be the end of it. There's a possibility that we will have to go before a judge, but my lawyer anticipated that after the magistrate tells WH what the judge will likely say that we'll be able to settle out of court.

We do already have a court ordered visitation schedule for the kids.

Sorry if I am stepping out of line, is th goal to be in plan B until he decides to end the affair completely and then rekindle the marriage?

No, the purpose of Plan B is to protect the betrayed spouse from the emotional fall out of being in direct contact with a wayward spouse.

Oh yeah! I understood that. Just didn't know if there was a second part to this story. I have been in agreements with everything advised. I was wondering if there was reconciliation planned too.

No. And in many cases there is not. She is asking about leaving Plan B after she is divorced. Her divorce is almost final.

Gotcha!!! I'm sorry to hear about the pending divorce though I'm sure it took a lot to get here.

It definitely took a lot to get here. His affair ended a while ago, but he has not made any attempt at reconciliation. I have no expectation of him ever asking for it, and have reached a point where no longer want it.

Plan B was the hardest and best choice I could have made. I intend to push for it.