I am definitely enthusiastic about vacation, as is he. It is the being together part (days long drive) while things are this tense that I am not enthusiastic about. [/quote]

Yes, that is my point. [/quote]

I hear you ML. H and I are both enthusiastic about cleaning up our sides of the street so that we aren't tense and can go on vacation together. He is working hard on his side.

Thank you, New, I am learning. The advise here is so helpful.

I think that, despite his saying that he is in favour of this programme and feels that using it will improve your marriage, he actually has great hostility towards it and does not want to use it, because it asks him to do things that go against both his instincts, and his beliefs.

Thank you. While I understand why you are saying to leave the car trip, our spring vacation is major love bank filling time for us and despite recent events, neither of us wants to give that up. Even though I have been sharing our difficulties, I don't mean to make H out to be a monster. I believe he is very committed to working through this, following MB. We get impatient that it isn't fixed overnight. We have had some email exchanges this morning and they are all positive. We have decided to avoid MB and relationship talk for the weekend and enjoy some time together.

It was a DJ for you to express the fear that he would yell at you on the drive. However, it was a not a DJ for you to say that you did not want to do the drive.

For couples who find it impossible to put their points of view across without committing LBs, Dr Harley's advice is that you need to state the fact - that you are not enthusiastic about the drive, and would prefer not to do it - but do not give reasons for why you don't want to do it. This is because the reasons are not important; all that matters is that one of you is not enthusiastic about something (meaning that you don't want to do it), so that other should take those feelings into account as a priority in your planning.

The other spouse should only be concerned that they do not ask the first spouse to do something that they don't want to do, and this is because, first, spouses are supposed to treat each other with extraordinary care and protection, and avoid being the source of each other's unhappiness, and second, because forcing (persuading, cajoling, guilt-tripping) a spouse into doing something he or she does not want to do causes resentment - and that will eventually backfire on the spouse that got his way. Resentment ALWAYS has a negative effect on the love bank balance, and that will turn out to be a problem for the spouse that gets his way, in the longer term (and perhaps even immediately). Cajoling, or bullying, a spouse into doing things they do not want to do causes the slow erosion of love, and the eventual downfall of a marriage. You and our husband are facing thiat situation today, and we readers can see that this has a lot to do with one of you getting your way at the expense of the other.

Your spouse must learn not to ask for (or indeed, demand) reasons for why you don't want to do something. When a spouse asks that question, they are looking to judge whether your reasons are good enough for them; but your reasons do not need to be good enough for your husband. They are your reasons, and your feelings, and your husband needs to learn to accept the fact that you have them. If he wants to know why, so that he can judge whether they are justified or not, most of the time he will conclude that they are not justified, and he will selfishly demand that you do what he wants.

You need to learn to say that you are unenthusiastic about something without love busting your husband. Your husband needs to learn not to ask why not, and to accept that the unwanted course of action needs to be abandoned, and there needs to be discussion about an alternative. If either of you cannot negotiate without becoming emotional and descending into LBs, you need to negotiate in writing, checking your messages before you send them.

So, for this trip, your driving there together is now off the table. You need to brainstorm alternatives, such as one person driving and the other flying, or both flying and hiring a car at the other end.

If you cannot negotiate an outcome about which you are both enthusiastic, you need to use the default position and do nothing - which means not going on this trip.

We are not suggesting that you decide to give up the vacation as a solution to the driving problem. That is to misunderstand POJA. Using POJA encourages you to find a way to have the vacation without the aspects of it that will make one of you unhappy; in this case, the drive.

Not going on the spring vacation would only only come about if between you, you cannot negotiate a way for you to feel enthusiastic about the whole thing - including getting there. The "do nothing" clause would only kick in if you (both) cannot find a solution to the travel problem (and any other problems) about which you are both enthusiastic.

The desire to have this love bank-filling holiday should be an excellent motivator for you (both) to find a solution that allows the holiday to happen. POJA is not intended to stop the holiday from happening.

Does this mean you are not coming back to post any more until this weekend is over? If so, there is no need to stop posting. Your posting here does not necessitate "relationship talk" between the two of you. You can ask your questions here, while not discussing any relationship issues with your husband.

Your posting here also does not mean that you and your husband can't enjoy time together. Indeed, posting here and getting the advice that Dr Harley would give will help you enjoy your time together even more.

No, SugarCane, posting may still happen this weekend. However, houseguests this weekend, ie grandbabies, may prevent.

H wants to email Dr. Harley. Would that be the radio show address?

Sugar, you have the most amazing ability to phrase things. As well as an uncanny knack of getting right to the heart of the matter. Thank you so much.

Yes - you've used this before. This time, follow through with Dr Harley, and do not conclude that you are "not ready" for his advice.

I would agree that it goes against his instincts and his beliefs. I hope he doesn't have great hostility towards it. And that if he does/did, that it can be overcome.

Cheers! It's 'cos I'm British.

I am .25% British. Need to look up my British grandfathers antecedents. He left Britian when he was 16, emigrated to Canada. Went back for WW11. As far as we know, he was estranged from his family. I know nothing about them.

Oh, and I really like tea!

Thanks Sugar. H will be calling Dr. Harley tomorrow morning per his response from Joyce.

This. I have printed this off and will refer to this in every conversation with H until I can GET it.

bg, please do that if it helps but I would much rather you printed off Dr Harley's articles and referred to THEM.

You've probably been asked several times, but I can't go back and check right now: Do you have the book Love Busters, and do you have He Wins She Wins? If not, please order them right away. The two biggest problems in your marriage are that you are unable to negotiate safely about decisions, and reach a conclusion that you are both enthusiastic about, and that you both commit love busters while trying to get your way. HWSW is all about using POJA and negotiating safely.

Do you have those books?

[quote=SugarCane]bg, please do that if it helps but I would much rather you printed off Dr Harley's articles and referred to THEM.

You've probably been asked several times, but I can't go back and check right now: Do you have the book Love Busters, and do you have He Wins She Wins? If not, please order them right away. The two biggest problems in your marriage are that you are unable to negotiate safely about decisions, and reach a conclusion that you are both enthusiastic about, and that you both commit love busters while trying to get your way. HWSW is all about using POJA and negotiating safely.

We have Love Busters. Joyce may send HWSW. If she doesn't, I will download it.

I definitely do read Dr. Harley's articles over and over. We did purchase a year's subscription to MB radio. H is listening more than I.

I love the way Dr. Harley writes. Your post to me spoke to me on a personal level with my particular situation in mind. So I am sucking up all MB related info

H and I are shopping for a laptop. At the moment, I am using an ipad and H is using an ipad mini. Neither are particularly user friendly with this forum. Could be the users though!

The ipad mini is especially difficult for H to interact with the forum. Once he has a laptop with a mouse, it will be much easier for him to post. We anticipate a purchase later this week.

This is good, bg. I think it shows commitment from both of you!

We never really discussed this aspect of your post about the day that your husband made you stay at home and thrash out your problems:

You husband says that he "said POJA" in order to make you stay at home and discuss the things he thought needed discussing there and then:

Your version of these events suggests that he bullied you into staying at home. It does not sound as if he asked you (nicely) how you would feel about phoning in and staying home to try and move forward, but the discrepancy in accounts isn't really the issue. The issue is that POJA is not a tool that allows one spouse to force the other into doing what he wants. You husband wanted you to stay at home and talk, and you did not want to do that. "Saying POJA" is not intended by Dr Harley to give him the means to force you to stay at home.

Neither, and much more importantly, it is a tool for him to force you to talk about any issues when you don't want to talk about them, and when you don't feel safe. Your husband reduced you to tears about this, and when that happened, you were incapable of going to work anyway. That was abusive behaviour on his part, and it has nothing to do with POJA.

If you are ever again in a situation where you do not want to do something, or where you want to get away from your husband, do not allow him to "say POJA" and make you stay. This is a health and safety situation where he was making you stressed and tearful, and you should not have put up with it. If you were unable to go to work once he had succeeded in upsetting you, you STILL should not have stayed in his presence and let him force you into talking.

I'm very worried about the fact that he could have done this to you, and I think you need to speak to Dr Harley, urgently, about the way your husband treats you when he wants to get his way.