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I am confused. Why are you not exposing to OM's BW?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
She had, had no contact with him since last fall - with the exception of the phone call she told me about (which was three weeks ago now). Prior to that the contact was mostly email, or phone.

This makes no sense. The only way for you to know this would be if you had her followed by a PI full time and also had a VAR on her person at all times.

You don't know that there has been no contact. That is what you WANT to believe.


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Ok, in order
1) ML - I didn't answer your question on an affair on my part, missed it, but the answer is no. I have never strayed. There was a close call (near to a ONS - no sex) before we were married, I admitted to that, and would be happy if WW asked for EPs as a result the OW was a person in my building (this is before WW and I bought our house) she had no SO at the time. Ironically this happened during the first time my WW was depressed - I was such a jerk, and probably didn't deserve her at the time.

My WW didn't ask for any EMs (we didn't know of such a need) and I took that as my one and only hall pass.
To be safe, I have made efforts on my own, to ensure that no such chance could occur again, i.e. I rarely travel for work, and the few times I do (i.e. once every few years) I make contact morning, and night, I don't drink (ever) and I don't go out socializing when I do travel. The few friends I make that have been of the other sex, I have introduced to my WW early on, and the one who I am still friends with is also my WWs friend, and we never see each other without my WW being present. I don't have OS friends, and understand that this could be a bad idea up until last fall we did have separate recreational habits, but we are changing this to find something we will both enjoy, I will miss teaching but for now the three hours a week is not something I wish to sacrifice away from my WW.

2)BrainHurts - trying to track down the OM BW - they have sold their house, and I have no contact info for her - not even a name. I have been calling the house at different times to try and reach her. I have even driven by when I had a chance to be in that city, and knocked on the door.

3) SusieQ - you are correct, this is what I want to believe, but I don't know. All I can base this on is the pain and anguish I saw her go through up until last week-end, I saw how it deepened when she called him to say good-bye (yes I know not the MB way - but it happened before I was aware she was doing it, so I will take it as last contact if that is the case) and I see how the pain is passing now. I watched her draw away from me, and since last week-end I have seen her come closer, to the point that last night again she asked me to join her and this morning for the first time since January 25th, when I said I love you she responded in kind (I never stopped saying, or feeling that - she stopped). If the affair is continuing then the aliens have really bored deep and she has managed to find away to have the affair and be with me as well - is it possible she is playing me - yes. I know every WW is capable of this (based on what I have seen here), could she do this without suffering? I don't think so. Time will tell.

Can I absolutely be sure there is no contact from her office? Can I verify that she is not calling him, nor texting him? No, and a VAR in her purse would not show me that. I have gone to her office in the past, she walks in, throws her day pack in her closet, her lunch on top, hangs her jacket and starts her day. She could be calling him from 8 till 4 and the VAR wouldn't pick it up. The ROD (risk of discovery) vs. the potential intelligence is not worth it. I know you will counsel against it, but I will keep trying to reach the OM BW and snooping at the home, I have her passwords to her Social Media, and her tablet and BB.

She is still off two days a week, those are the days that she is most likely to contact him. Today for example she is out with our sons god mother. The snoopers are in place if she contacts the OM when she gets home.

Do I want to find evidence? Of course not, but I need to make an honest effort to ensure that there is no proof to be found as well. I get that. My work training has taught me the same - absence of proof doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just means we haven't found it yet. The corollary though is that in some cases there is no proof not because the suspect cleaned up really well, as that they weren't the one who committed the crime.

I believe that this was an EA - and possibly only one sided at that - and that he left her team before she became aware of her feelings for him. Since she did (last fall) she has been fighting the feelings and trying to make them fade. I haven't helped during that time as I didn't do enough to rebuild my LoveBank. My AO on January 24th pushed her over the edge, and she let me know she felt she had better options. The option was just a fantasy in her head, but it was enough to wake me up, and I hope (and I take what I describe above) as signs that her fantasy is crumbling.

I understand and agree that you all will (and should) only help those who will help themselves.

My last question was on helping the memory fade, and last night tells me I am making headway. I will continue the path I am on - keep my EPs in place (I think I have used EP and EM interchangeably here (Extraordinary Precautions / Extraordinary Measures) keep trying to reach the OM BW just to see if she knows something I don't, and to let her know, but in the meantime, I am going to continue Plan A - with the goal of moving into Recovery - if we aren't already on our way.

If you have other questions, or think I have left something un-answered please let me know.

I will post back with updates as I have them, and until I reach the OM BW, or have proof to share no more questions. Well one - but that is for another thread and isn't directly related to my situation - I hope is more general and may start a discussion helpful to others.

I admire the contributions you all have made here (not just my thread but on all of them going back years), and hope that in some small way I have provided assistance in the few comments I felt comfortable making on other threads.

Thank you.

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Can you hire a PI to locate OM's BW? This is a major hole in not exposing to OM's BW.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Considered, first stop before I do that is the lands registry office - they have just sold their home, I know the address, and can get the owner information for a small fee. Downside - the land registry office is across the street from WWs office. I also need to do it during business hours- when I am supposed to be at work. Might need to take a day off.

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So, I imposed an exile on myself after an issue on another thread, and was lurking reading, and trying to get ideas an continue the Plan A. But then...
Mel, and others before you ask - no I never did find or contact the OMs partner. I have a feeling that they have moved out of the house, and gone their separate ways - more on why later.
I never did find her, and didn't have a chance to drive over and stake out the house. From the time of my last post until this past Saturday AM, I thought we were doing better.

Saturday morning WW declared that she had been trying for six months and that it wasn't working. In the course of the discussion she revealed that she saw POSOM walking from afar a couple of weeks ago, and had the urge to chase him - she didn't but she feels that this feeling was a sign. This couple (IMHO) with a message she took away from her last IC session (yes IC is death to Marriage recovery - but she is, and has been clinically depressed for several months now (medication, and IC sessions - she started IC with the counselor who I found as our MC). The message she took away - "be true to WW". Her revelation that she saw him, and had an urge - tells me that there was no contact - I think that may soon change though. We agree that we are in the house together until the youngest finishes public school - next June - and I am asking for that time to implement and follow MB. She doesn't think it will work.

I have written to the coaching corner to set up a call. So - yes, hit me for failing to expose - but again - I have no proof of anything other than her telling me how she feels, and have been unable to locate the OMs partner - remember PIs in Canada are not like those in the US - I don't think they can get the same info and share it.
I am considering calling POSOMs manager, and letting him in on this - the boss and my wife know each other and are FB friends. POSOM works for a different agency, but sometimes the agencies do collaborate - hence contact (or glimpses in the hallway) are possible.
I took the first part (the reaction to the glimpse) as proof of how the LB can be so easily rekindled unless I get my LB filled. Which I was making progress on - no LBs - but even a pretty darn good Plan A has been trading at the level of the Mexican Peso.

Plan A activities since - a few dinners out - just her and I, a night out at a resort (Chateau Montello)for our anniversayr - it was a week late as she was out of town the night of our ann - with people I trust and not the OM - still I accept an issue) pulled out all the stops. A movie date - I know movies aren't the best, but the boys wanted to see the Pirates one, so we went to see one at the same time.

Funny - last week-end (so the last week-end of May - she finally agreed and we completed the EM needs questionnaires together. I have been doing pretty good at meeting her EMs. But the exchange rate sucks.

Along with her declaration that it isn't working - she decided that SF isn't being true to herself so she has decided that this will stop. Yes I know redflag .

I have my helmet on, and understand if this post is ignored. In case someone has any idea that is legal (the best I have come up with involves finding some way to make POSOM gay) that I can use please share. I have nothing to expose (no proof - other than her words) and no one to expose to if I had proof.

TLDR- recap - we are in the same home - sleep in the same bed, no SF (I can wait - my giver and my taker are under control) but she has decided it isn't working (even though I have Plan A'd and eliminated LBs) and a simple glimpse and a bad IC message has set me to zero.

Thank you



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The advice remains the same. Expose the affair to everyone who's important in your lives (including your 7 year old) and expose to as many people as you can find on his side.

If the marriage is to recover, you will also need to move away from the area so that there's no possibility of running into this loser.

What's changed here is that you've lost 4 months. 4 months that could have been applied to killing the affair and having a chance of recovery. Time has been wasted by timidity, white knuckling it and and hoping for the best. 4 months is a lot of time for an affair to grow and become more cancerous, as you now see.

WWs often lull their betrayed spouses into thinking everything will be all right for a few months, throwing bones here and there until they can safely proclaim that they 'tried' but it didn't work. You allowed yourself to be lulled into complacency and fell for it despite the many, many warnings posters tried to offer.

So you see now that killing an affair is all-out war. Whatever lies ahead, exposure is essential. You may have lost too much time here to recover the marriage but if there's a possibility, it begins with strategic and stealthy exposure.

If you can't take this step, there is simply NO hope for your marriage. If you CAN take the step, you have a chance. Maybe.

Exposure is the first step to killing an affair. You have nothing to lose (you never did!) but now you just might be ready to use this most potent weapon against the affair.

Are you ready?

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Stop worrying about proof! You expose by telling everyone that cares about your family, "my wife has fallen in love with a married man and is ready to walk away from our family to be with him. PLEASE help support our marriage!"

YOU ALSO DO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO FIND HIS SPOUSE AND TELL HER AS WELL. You've had a lot of time to get this done. Didn't you say at the beginning of your thread that you were some kind of stealthy genius? COME ON.

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Zibbles - the kids know - 11 and 15. They were told very early in the process. My oldest is aware that WW is still confused, and he doesn't know what more I can do (i.e. ending LBs, and Plan A).

I was originally told to expose to the OMs wife only if I could locate her.
I haven't - and yes, I did mention I had to eat crow on that - when I kept coming up blank on her. I mentioned I have her vehicle, make model, plate, her address (I suspect that they have no moved - I realized as I was writing my above post that this week-end was the end of a month / start of a new one - prime time for a house sale be close.) but no way to find who it belongs to. As I mentioned PIs in Canada and databases not the same as in the US. If I tried to get this information from CPIC (the police database) I would loose my job and whoever helped me would loose theirs as well.

I could expose to WWs family - but with only her words that is a risk that I see blowing up - she exposed to my parents herself.

The people left are, our friends - mine know, hers not unless she told them. I have told a couple of mutual friends. If the direction now is to expose widely without proof I will.

I will however defer until after WW talks to Jennifer, just in case, something else comes up. I have been working on exposure letters that would fit this.
For my side (family and mutual friends those that I consider my friend first)

WW has admitted to me that she has in-appropriate feelings for POSOM. I ask that you use whatever influence you may have with WW to encourage her to work on her marriage and not pursue an adulterous relationship with POSOM.

For POSOMs FB -
Friends of POSOM, my wife (WW) has admitted to me that she has developped in-appropriate feelings for POSOM. I encourage you to use whatever influence you may have with POSOM to discontinue any and all contact he may have with WW. Any contact between them can only damage his marriage, and WWs. The continence of this relationship while both are married is adultery. This will negatively affect his children xxxx and yyy, and WW and my children zz, and ll. If you happen to know POSOMs wife I encourage you to ask her to contact me.


For mutual friends of POSOM and WW (POSOM worked for my WW) in the past. This includes several people who report to WW, and POSOMs current manager. POSOM and WW are not friends on FB


Before POSOM left XXXX WW developed in-appropriate feelings for him. She has admitted these feelings to me, and believes that it is appropriate for her to pursue these at the expense of her and POSOMs families, I believe that this will be detrimental to our children zz and ll, and to POSOMs children xx and yy. I ask that you use whatever influence you have with POSOM and WW to prevent any contact between them and end any relationship that they may have as continued contact between them will be detrimental to both of their marriages and families.

These paragraphs along with the normal exposure ones - I don't do this to be vindictive or for revenge, I am sending you this to ask for you help...

Thank you.

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You already have proof. Her admittance and her actions are proof. "Inappropriate feelings" is not strong enough. She fell in love with another man and is willing to abandon the marriage to pursue it. If you don't frame the narrative in a way that explains the urgency, you're not going to get the support you need.

You mentioned earlier today that you want to strike at this OM. Exposure has the potential to give you your power back. Your WW will be furious. The angrier she is, the more effective your exposure is.

I would move heaven and earth to find the OMs wife. It needs to be an absolute top priority as it is your number one exposure. If, as you imply, the OM is breaking up with his wife, you can bet the affair has played a huge roll in the destruction of that marriage. She needs to know the enemy at the door.

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Basically you have done a trickle job of exposing, and have enabled an unhealthy marital lifestyle (for instance, by agreeing to let her spend nights without you because she is with 'people you trust'), and you are now surprised that things haven't turned around?

As I believe I said on page one, I don't buy this inappropriate feelings' confession. She is in a full blown affair. I also don't buy that you have done everything possible to find the BW. I found out my H had an afffair a decade earlier with a girl named 'Kelly' who he used to work with at that time (huge company). Within one night I had her full name, current address and phone, all her family info from another state, job history...I knew she was a democrat and which restaurants she liked to eat at, her favorite tv show, the fact that she was a wanna be runner. And I am a non tech savvy SAHM who doesn't even know how wifi works. I got the information due to sheer passion to get it, which you clearly don't have.

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By the way, we have helped loads of Canadiens before. I have never heard one use being in Canada as an excuse not to expose crazy

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Not an excuse - I will post all I have on them - be happy for anyone to find her name. I have his name, address, phone, vehicle information. I have her vehicle, the fact that she might have worked for the next city over at one time, I am told (I know WayWard Speak) that she has mental health issues, the names of their children. His current work phone, email, and location. Short of sitting outside their home (which I did - hence I have the vehicle info). I have also stopped by a few times when I knew he was at work. No one home. I could ask people that might know - but they all are friends with WW and/or OM. We have Canada411 - works if you have a landline phone in your name - OM does - she isn't listed. Intellus and similar don't have Canadian data. We don't have the same voting registration system here as the US- you don't register for one party or the other, and that information is completely confidential unless you reveal your intentions to a party representative who will record it in party databases. These databases are kept confidential by the parties.

POSOM has 51 friends on Facebook. He made one post May 29th of this year, prior to that his last post was February 2015. No relatives posted, one person with the same last name - suspect his brother. He has posted photos of his children - with their names, neither of them have any online accounts under those names that I can find. I have already acknowledged that I am eating crow on this, I spoke to a co-worker who has taught me some and Intel Officers OSINT search techniques. She might have an Obit that shows a name, I don't know if it is the same OM (same name, same city) but I am not giving up.

All that - and Un-Written you are correct. I am in some ways hamstrung - and fell for a ploy.

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Oh - the trickle, yes you are correct - WW did most of it herself - before I found MB. She told my parents, and it came up during a family dinner, I had her admit that she thinks she is in love with OM to the boys.
Her family doesn't know, so that will be interesting - French Catholic - so sometimes the attitude is a bit different. Depending on the generation it will be a big deal, or they won't care.

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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
Oh - the trickle, yes you are correct - WW did most of it herself - before I found MB. She told my parents, and it came up during a family dinner, I had her admit that she thinks she is in love with OM to the boys.
Her family doesn't know, so that will be interesting - French Catholic - so sometimes the attitude is a bit different. Depending on the generation it will be a big deal, or they won't care.


So you let her 'spin' her own version of the affair? That means that she told them that the marriage had already broken down because of your abuse and that this is just a friend (-:

That is why exposure cannot come from the wayward, it must come from the betrayed spouse. Unfortunately once her version is out there, it is almost impossible for you to replace it with the truth. You will just look bitter and vengeful.


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Not sure what you mean - She probably tried to tell my father that - I corrected him and my mother the same day. As for our children, I was there, and she told them she loved a guy at work, at the time, I admit I wasn't the best Husband (LBs and not meeting EMs), but I let the boys know that this is no excuse for going outside of the marriage. Since then, they have seen my efforts, and acknowledge that if she leaves it isn't right.

Again this happened before I found MB. My telling my father was the week-end after the d-day, the boys the night of, or night after. She hasn't told her family yet, when I do - I expect venom from her. The challenge there is that aside from her brother and dad, none of them speak English - and my French - not strong enough to explain this to them.

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My french isn't the best there is, but why not start with something like this:

Ma femme est amoureuse d'un autre homme. Ils se sont rencontr�s au travail. Je vous en prie, aider notre marriage.

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G2S - Not bad, I am thinking your French is better than mine - and I live in it. The intro isn't what I am worried about - nor the emails /letters (google translate, and friends that are bilingual to help). It is the questions from her mom, aunts and uncles that I am nervous about.
Thank you.

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Why can't you hire a PI to find the OMBW?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Can you prepare some key sentences in french? You don't need to have a long discussion, you need to convey the most important things.

Exposing is like jumping in the water to get across.
It might be a bit cold, you will most definitely get wet, but you will not drown and this forum will direct you to the other side of the water.
Jump, expose, you will get help with the next bits.

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